• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
  • Burra Maluca
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mike Haasl
stewards:
  • James Freyr
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
master gardeners:
  • Steve Thorn
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Carla Burke
  • Greg Martin

Pump recomendations for pumping water from a pond with (20ft of head)

 
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello all!  Thank you in advance for you help.

Two years ago I purchased a SHURflo diaphragm pump (model # 2088-474-144) to pump water out of my pond and up 30 vertical feet to a tote from which I gravity feed my 3-acre forest garden. When the pump arrived with a plastic guard broken, the company sent another free pump.  We set up the pump to run on an altE 110W solar panel, a a water filter attachment, and a linear current booster, and ran the pump only when it was very sunny and not very often in general (about one day out of every two weeks in the summer).  

The system appeared to work perfectly, but after about a year the first pump failed without any clear explanation and a year later, the second pump (we were able to use the pump with the broken plastic guard, after all) stopped working as well.  We have gone through all of the troubleshooting recommendations - in the case of the second pump, each of the troubleshooting efforts would make it run only a short while before it stopped running again. It seems ridiculous to go through one water pump per year, so I would love to hear people's recommendations for durable, high-functioning water pumps.  I am happy to spend more money on a pump if it will last for longer and be of a quality that allows me to reliably repair it or have it repaired.

My initial research into water pumps made it seem that diaphragm pumps would work best for this type of low intensity pumping, but I think now that centrifugal pumps might make more sense given that they have fewer moving parts.

I very much look forward to hearing people's thoughts.  Thank you!

-Nicola
IMG_1036.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_1036.jpg]
IMG_1037.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_1037.jpg]
IMG_E1038.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_E1038.jpg]
 
pollinator
Posts: 367
Location: North central Ontario
46
kids dog books chicken earthworks cooking solar wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The shurflo is a good pump but that extremely efficient watts per gallon pumped rating comes at a price; they wear out. Add in the linear actuator and they wear out faster. The dankoff 24 volt pump is a much better long lasting beast but it's pricey https://www.altestore.com/store/solar-water-pumps/surface-solar-pumps/solar-slowpump/dankoff-slowpump-1322-24-24vdc-surface-pump-p452/
I have seen old school off grid setups with them well over 20 years old and running fine. You could go the jet pump route instead but expect to use 2 to 3 times the power to pump the same amount of water. More if you go ac and the linear actuator wont help. I like piston pumps myself but they are crazy expensive new and require maintenance but mine are over 50 years old.
Shameless plug:
https://permies.com/t/89196/Piston-Pump-refurbishing
Cheers David
 
Posts: 710
Location: In the woods, West Coast USA
90
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have had the absolute best performance and endurance from a pump that is made by a company that also makes cars.  I have no association with this company.  It was able to pump about 20 feet of head across 300 feet to the top of a ridge, in a 1 1/2" line, and then the line went down the ridge.  It tied into my drip system without putting too much pressure on it.   As the pond lowered during the summer and the head increased to about 30 feet, it didn't even falter.  It's by far the best pump I've ever used.  It uses way less gas than the cheaper pumps, which makes it even more valuable.  It runs longer on the same amount of gas, so it saves a lot of my time.   I've had it for 7 years and use it approx. 100 hours a year, and keep it inside a wooden shed where it is completely protected the rest of the time.

I have a lot of acreage in a mountainous area to maintain, and have gone through 2 other pumps before buying one of these.  I have swallowed a bit in paying more, but I paid for it once already in buying two of the others.  I spent more time trying to figure out why the crummy pumps wouldn't work, walking back and forth dozens of times, fussing with the line, fussing with the angle, until it drove me crazy.  It wasn't my fault or too-long line, it was a pump that worked at first, then slowly stopped being able to do the job.

And if it's okay to go on, I buy from this company for every kind of equipment I need if they have it.  I have never regretted it.  The equipment is reliable, dependable, and I don't feel exhausted at the end of the day.  And when I need stuff to start up, it does, without a struggle, without having to fuss with it and figure out its idiosyncrasies.  Yeah, they cost more, but they last longer, which means they really don't cost more.
 
Posts: 600
Location: Michigan
38
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The dankoff (flo-lite) pumps are hard to beat for efficiency. Dc drive (available ac too) and positive dispacement get the job done with minimum wattages and high reliability of water delivery. Piston and centrifugal pumps for larger delivery.

If you are 30 feet above the source, a pump that can do that head (60+ psi) comfortably ( with room to work, or head room) will be more efficient and last longer.
 
Nicola Woelfe
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello all!,

A belated but warm thank you to everyone for responding.   I am sorely tempted to purchase the Dankoff Slowpump 1322-24 24VDC surface pump... even if it doesn't work for the full 15-20 years, I will have saved money if it works for more than 7 years at the rate the shurflo pumps are failing on me.  

I would love to hear why people recommend a slowpump over dankoff's other models.  Does anyone have a recommended source for reading more about those pumps?  Most of what I find about them is from people who sell them which is not the way I like things when I go to make a big purchase.  

Thank you so much for your help!

-Nicola
 
frank li
Posts: 600
Location: Michigan
38
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nicola Woelfe wrote:Hello all!,

A belated but warm thank you to everyone for responding.   I am sorely tempted to purchase the Dankoff Slowpump 1322-24 24VDC surface pump... even if it doesn't work for the full 15-20 years, I will have saved money if it works for more than 7 years at the rate the shurflo pumps are failing on me.  

I would love to hear why people recommend a slowpump over dankoff's other models.  Does anyone have a recommended source for reading more about those pumps?  Most of what I find about them is from people who sell them which is not the way I like things when I go to make a big purchase.  

Thank you so much for your help!

-Nicola



This pump was installed a year and a half ago and is the 48v model. Delivery rate was not adequate for multiple taps in a large home to run at once, but plenty for backup to city water from a motorized hand pump well and 400 gallon storage tank. Great dc pumps.



20170901_160111.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20170901_160111.jpg]
20180517_175621.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20180517_175621.jpg]
20170901_160033.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20170901_160033.jpg]
 
frank li
Posts: 600
Location: Michigan
38
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Generally the slow pump has a higher suction capability than the standard pump. The standard will deliver a higher rate. Power consumption is lower and gallons per watt higher if i remember also.
 
Posts: 136
Location: Romania
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Does the Shurflo has carbon brushes?
If so,then those should be replaced after a while ,they are consumable.
I have a diaphragm pump thats russian made and was in use non stop in a deep well for 37 years.
But my diaphragm pump is well designed and it doesnt have a motor but instead has an electromagnet that oscilates up and down .Doesnt  even have bearings  and its super high pressure ,90 meters deep ,has more flow than the Shurflo in the pictures and consumes just 200 W.
 
David Baillie
pollinator
Posts: 367
Location: North central Ontario
46
kids dog books chicken earthworks cooking solar wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mihai, do you have a make and model on that pump? It sounds like something worth investigating if I could even get one here in Canada...
 
pollinator
Posts: 120
Location: South Carolina 8a
51
hugelkultur dog foraging cooking rocket stoves woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have many years experience drilling wells as my family owns a well-drilling business. From my experience submersible-style pumps are vastly superior to above ground models. Besides not being able to overcome a vacuum( >20ft) without a jet system, above ground pumps are also not designed to handle a continuous head pressure. The solution we always provided for people wanting to pump from a pond was to basically sit the well casing into the pond. The casing is a "screen" with microscopic slits cut throughout. the "well" is positioned so that the top will never be submerged. Submersible wells have a check valve built-in, but I usually would add another one inline above the well casing seal. This will help prevent back pressure from wearing out the pump, and prevent any siphon from polluting your pond. I personally like the Grundfos SQFlex for this type of application. The only drawback is that wire must be run to the bottom of the well, but you can run your system into a pump house with a bladder tank, and control it from here.

Anyhow, submersible pumps are known to last 30+ Years, so this is really what I would go with in your situation.
A drawback of this system is that the well casing screen needs to be scrubbed occasionally due to algae and gunk build up.
 
Mihai Ilie
Posts: 136
Location: Romania
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

David Baillie wrote:Mihai, do you have a make and model on that pump? It sounds like something worth investigating if I could even get one here in Canada...


In the west there are no such efficient pumps for sale and i have searched something in english for you about them but couldnt find.
I will post a russian vid with the pump where its disasembled and also put to work.I dont know russian eyther but the video its informative because it shows well this pump.
Has no bearings ,can pump quite a lot of sand and its high pressure ( more than Shurflo pumps).
One such pump costs between 25 dollars and 100 but most of the pumps now a days are chinese and they are bad because the chinese use aluminum wire for the coil instead of copper because aluminium wire is cheaper.
Even if you see russian letters on the pump it might be chinese.
These pumps are also verry heavy and the shipping costs probably more than the pump wich is why i think you dont hace them in the west.
And its verry noizy ,it would probably skare you if you test it out of the water and didnt know its that noizy,but in a well underwater the noize its not much bigger than a regular submersible pump.


This is a vibrating pump membrane pump like the one im talking about ,pumping silt and sand from a well.They are tough pumps.
 
pollinator
Posts: 259
Location: Nomadic
24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What a interesting design pump. Thanks for sharing. The vibrating membrane pump in the videos look like they can be shipped ok. Aluminum case is light too. Why aren’t they available here in America? Ive never seen one before. Or make them here.
The sound coming out of the well when he lifted the pump out of the water was a bit hair raising.
I liked the solar driven old fashioned shallow well piston pump I saw at the Bullock Permaculture Homestead. They found a DC motor to drive it  from the Surplus Center website. And several big panels to power it. It slow pumped from a pond  uphill at least 100 vertical feet to a giant ferrocement tank.
 
pollinator
Posts: 249
41
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Weighing in To say there is a PTO powered water transfer pump available for my walk behind two wheel tractor, though possibly overkill for the op’s needs (putting aside the need for a tractor to run it 😀)

The Water Transfer Pump has a maximum “head” of 115 feet. This refers to the total height from the source of the water to the destination or discharge point. (Maximum 28 feet of vertical suction lift + 87 feet maximum vertical discharge height = 115 feet total head)

There are also two high pressure water pumps available for these tractors.

Not really an issue for us as we have freely available water from an shallow aquifer under the field that we plan to tap for any needed irrigation.
 
A day job? In an office? My worst nightmare! Comfort me tiny ad!
Solar Station Construction Plans - now FREE for a while
https://permies.com/forums/freebie/list/44#freebies
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!