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Jordan Peterson  RSS feed

 
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I LOVE this man! I don't agree with him on everything but probably 98%.

He provides much needed insight into a variety of issues and he is also a great teacher/role model for young men.

On a lighter note here is Jordan Peterson telling a personal ghost story (it's funny).

 
Scott Foster
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Hi Lucrecia,

I like that he is actually objective and not an ideologue.  So few thinkers in modern times.
 
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Jordan is awesome. He reminds me in many ways of the lake Christopher Hitchens. He's not so eloquently spoken, but he obviously thinks before he speaks. and just like Christopher those who are against him, don't usually do a very good job of voicing their concerns. Instead they try to drown him out or prevent him from speaking.

Go Jordan. If he ran for prime minister I would vote for him.

He has produced a book. I have to read it.

For the information of everyone else on Earth, most of us Canadians are about as smart as Jordan. :-)
 
Lucrecia Anderson
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Scott Foster wrote:Hi Lucrecia,

I like that he is actually objective and not an ideologue.  So few thinkers in modern times.



Yes, he is so intellectually sincere and honest. If he said something and later found out it was incorrect, or decided his position was in error he would be the first to say so.

In comparison you have guys like Molyneux, he panders to an extreme degree and will happily twist facts in order to please his audience and keep the donation $ rolling in. He seems to get worse all the time.

 
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I'm reading Jordan's book "12 Rules for Life, an Antidote to Chaos". He writes just like he talks
(without the pauses and gestures of course).
While I don't know if it is possible to love someone you don't know, yet I do.
He is a truly remarkable man who is here at exactly the right time in history.
 
Scott Foster
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Greg,

I'm about halfway through the book.  I like the way he thinks.  There are people who don't like him but my guess is they haven't actually read or listened to more than a soundbite.  He talks about complicated issues.  Glad he has had an impact.

 
Greg Mamishian
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Jordan has impact because he's the real deal and not a faker.
He is especially effective in the medrasas we call universities
in that he strikes a chord in the younger generation
who are thirsty for meaning they aren't finding in school..
 
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The Gospel according to JP.

The Internet provides a lot of academics and non-academics the means to voice popular and unpopular opinions.

I like his attitude to not suffering fools and calling to task the verbal diarrhoea many people currently find the need to use on social media; though admittedly he’s guilty of being an oxygen thief too.

His contrary attitude too often escalates to being antagonistic and argumentative, and just irritates me after a short while.

His views on society, and roles of certain groups is outstanding – his gender related comments are often amusing.

Christopher Hitchens did argue things more eloquently, he just had a knack to gently but thoroughly slap silly people down with quiet intelligence.

However, if I had to choose a social commentator that is thought provoking in his analysis of subjects and truly is a ‘Renaissance Man’, it would be Stephen Fry.
 
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F Agricola wrote:
His contrary attitude too often escalates to being antagonistic and argumentative, and just irritates me after a short while.



Then listen to his class room lectures instead. Those are my favorites because they are jam packed with interesting facts and other things I hadn't heard or thought of before.

I will admit I don't enjoy the debates nearly as much, was watching a bit of Jordan debating Sam Harrison earlier this morning and didn't like it. When people start to argue with Jordan his annoyance is soooo obvious (he is very emotional and it quickly comes through) and my gut reaction is "Why is that person annoying Jordan? They are upsetting him and they need to cut it out!".

Joe Rogan has some good discussions with JP. Here is one snippet from his classroom lectures:



I also found this video to be very enlightening. He makes some excellent points:

 
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Sadly, I spent 9 minutes and 54 seconds of my life watching that, and while he has some good thoughts, he woefully comes short of the real meaning of life for a man. Too bad, he really sounds like he is on the cusp of understanding, and yet his own pride is keeping him from understanding.

Sad. :-)



 
Scott Foster
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Travis Johnson wrote:Sadly, I spent 9 minutes and 54 seconds of my life watching that, and while he has some good thoughts, he woefully comes short of the real meaning of life for a man. Too bad, he really sounds like he is on the cusp of understanding, and yet his own pride is keeping him from understanding.

Sad. :-)

Do you care to elaborate?


 
Greg Mamishian
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Scott Foster wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:Sadly, I spent 9 minutes and 54 seconds of my life watching that, and while he has some good thoughts, he woefully comes short of the real meaning of life for a man. Too bad, he really sounds like he is on the cusp of understanding, and yet his own pride is keeping him from understanding.

Sad. :-)

Do you care to elaborate?




I have a similar question, Travis. Can you share what you understand that you feel Jordan has missed?

 
Travis Johnson
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The Bible.

Every week at church, unknown men, filled with humility and with far less intellect and education, give me more hope, more meaning, more love in a single sermon then this man could ever try to comprehend.

The smartest, richest man who ever lived wrote Proverbs...he also wrote Ecclesiastics after making seven experiments on life.

If Jordon Peterson could only be like Lee Strobel and use his quit wit and analytical mind to find the final piece of the pie, he would finally get it. That is, everything under the sun is merely grasping at the wind.
 
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Jordan has done a series of seventeen talks on the Bible.
This is just the first one... it's two and a half hours,
so it might be good to set aside enough time to watch it continuously beginning to end.
Perhaps the talks will fill in what you believe he has missed.



I think he has a pretty decent grasp of Scripture.
 
Scott Foster
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Travis Johnson wrote:The Bible.

Every week at church, unknown men, filled with humility and with far less intellect and education, give me more hope, more meaning, more love in a single sermon then this man could ever try to comprehend.

The smartest, richest man who ever lived wrote Proverbs...he also wrote Ecclesiastics after making seven experiments on life.

If Jordon Peterson could only be like Lee Strobel and use his quit wit and analytical mind to find the final piece of the pie, he would finally get it. That is, everything under the sun is merely grasping at the wind.



Understood.  His philosophy is Christian based.  He doesn't say that he believes that God exists but acts as if he does.  I'm not sure what his terms of faith are . I won't attempt to argue or devalue what you believe.    

There needs to be a foundation of value,  the alternative is Nihilism.    
 
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Travis Johnson wrote:The Bible.



He has a doctorate in clinical psychology and works as a university professor.

If he took the Bible literally and that was his message he would have to find a different line of work.  In fact he likely wouldn't be able to discuss the majority of things he covers since all purpose and perception would be Biblically based.
 
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Lucrecia Anderson wrote:Then listen to his class room lectures instead.



Hello Lucretia,

Thanks, I've listen to several of his classroom lectures before, and usually give people the benefit of the doubt by seeking a broad list of their work, for fairness.

Let just say he's an acquired taste, though still relevant in the broader social discourse.
 
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Scott Foster wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:He doesn't say that he believes that God exists but acts as if he does.



I think Jordan's approach is practical to do what's morally right as if God existed and as if he was accountable for his actions.
It's totally up to God to replace faith with experience as that's not anything we could ever possibly do by our own effort.

"The person who has My commands and keeps them is the one who really loves Me;
and whoever really loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I too will love him and will show reveal manifest Myself to him.
I will let Myself be clearly seen by him and make Myself real to him."

(John 14:21)

(I'm not certain if it's permitted to quote the Bible here, so please let me know if it's inappropriate and I'll promptly remove it.)



 
Travis Johnson
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You guys and gals might be right. I was basing my thoughts (and perhaps wrongly) upon his foul language as he spoke in the 9 minutes and 54 seconds that I heard him speak. Is that fair or unfair??? I don't know. I say bad words when I am really angry, but not ever in casual speech. That does not mean neither one of us is not a Christian though. I would think a devout Christian of his public presence would be a little more guarded with foul language for the reasons I speak, but that is ultimately between him and God.
 
Travis Johnson
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Okay...back to the topic at hand, with apologies for the slight divergence. If I may, speak respectfully upon what was discussed in the video that I watched: The Meaning of Life for Men.

I have to kind of agree with him; things are a litle bit different with a man then with a woman in many regards. I can say that, because...well...to put it bluntly so as to make a point, I have pretty much had my balls chopped off in life. How is that for an attention grabber? :-)

I don't "work". Being retired at age 42 means I spend time at home making the meals, shipping the kids off to school, doing the parent teacher confrences, going to the harvest lunches... I would like to say I enjoy that, and I do, to some degree, but it is not gratifying. I am not sure if this is because I am a guy, or if I am a goal-oriented-guy. There may be a huge difference there.

While I know someone has to care for our four young daughters (5, 12,13,14), there is no real sense of accomplishment in it day to day, and I feel that disappointment in my heart.

A few months ago though, as we transitioned fom one house to another, and I got our Tiny House fixed up, it was 5 straight weeks of goals to scratch off, and purpose. Now that we are moved in, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....nothing, no drive to do anything. I do blame my cancer on some of that, but with goals I was able to push through it.

Then there is deep guilt, and yes some based on my faith where I am gifted by God with time, and doing so little with it, it seems. I do have (3) books started, but no desitre lately to pick up where I left off and start writing again. farm wise there are things to do, but we really are in kind of a holding pattern, not really sure what to do with a lot of the resouses that we have. Everything has come to a halt: mining, logging and even farming. Two of the three houses we have sit vacant, and its just a whol lot of nothingness...

So when Peterson says men need goals to have meaning, I kind of have to agree. For me right now, there is just doing things to exist, but no real thriving.



 
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Travis, if you could do anything, what would you want to do the most?
 
Travis Johnson
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Greg Mamishian wrote:Travis, if you could do anything, what would you want to do the most?



Greg, I have given this several hours of thought since first reading it, and honestly, I do not know. This gives me reason to believe that it is medical in nature. Since my cancer is deeply engrained in the adrenal system, which of course controls emotional functions, including motivation and over-all well-being, I would say I really need to get that straightened out first.

Jordan Petersen cannot help me out if I do not even know who I am.
 
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I agree with a lot of what JP says, but his voice and his manner are so off-putting to me that I rarely listen to him.
 
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Trace Oswald wrote:I agree with a lot of what JP says, but his voice and his manner are so off-putting to me that I rarely listen to him.



He is definitely not an alpha male (though he assures us he can be dangerous when pushed). But yeah there is a strong emotional overtone that affects people in different ways. It makes me feel protective towards him, and I can see where it would turn off some grown men (though the young guys love him, probably because he is so vulnerable yet speaks about stern stuff).
 
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Travis Johnson wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:Travis, if you could do anything, what would you want to do the most?



Greg, I have given this several hours of thought since first reading it, and honestly, I do not know. This gives me reason to believe that it is medical in nature. Since my cancer is deeply engrained in the adrenal system, which of course controls emotional functions, including motivation and over-all well-being, I would say I really need to get that straightened out first.

Jordan Petersen cannot help me out if I do not even know who I am.



This might sound strange... but have you considered doing nothing? Doing nothing is actually doing something.

There is a Zen practice called shikantaza which means "just sitting" like this...



...with your hands together resting on your lap like this.



There are no mantras to chant, no breaths to count, no images to imagine, and none to try to supress... you don't even need to sit crosslegged. Sitting up straight on a stool with no back support is just fine.

The idea is to take some time to just be alone with yourself, awake and aware of everything around you and inside you. When you're still, you can observe how your thoughts try to take you away from being aware of just sitting where you are in the present moment.  You might consider reading a little about it just to see if you would like to try it. I did it for years and it greatly helped me to understand myself.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

― Blaise Pascal



 
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It's raining, probably the same reason Travis (hey buddy!) is on here. East coast fun.

First, I am struck with how this guy is considered controversial and radical. Controversial because what he is saying would have been standard psychology teaching when I was in university 20 years ago. Understanding seems to be based on outliers rather than normative data (I hope sincerely that is taken scientifically, its the best words I can come up with). This is the same problem in law and psychology and medical pathology-based versus wellness-based approaches.  Outliers are more interesting, we are more psychologically inclined to remember them, they bring on more grant money, get more publications, etc.

Radical because, again, either we are higher apes or created beings. This is not a new discussion, and since Darwin theology and philosophy has tried to bridge the divide. I agree with Peterson based on the video that nihilism is the default in an atheistic model, and anyone who is a nihilist and not depressed is not a deep thinker, it's pretty dismal. So he is looking for a schema of meaning outside of theology through psychology (at least that is how I am reading his approach). This is not new at all. He is bringing in new data from normative psychology which has not been broadly entered our discourse, but it is not in my estimation radical either in method or data. Almost nothing he discussed on the videos was not broadly taught in my developmental psychology class 20 years ago.

So to me, I don't "get" the outrage or the novelty, but that is why this is so interesting, clearly I am out of phase with the culture.

In regards to the meditative approach, this seems like a way of withdrawing from the search for novelty, again not new. I have heard so many people say hand tool woodworking, say, is "meditative". Almost anything that prevents that titillation of the search for different/new/heightened could be described that way.

There are religious and nonreligious practices of meditation.
Roy Masters has been advocating a pretty orthodox Christian practice since the mid 20th century. Monks have been practicing silence and stillness in several belief systems. Theravada buddhism especially emphasizes it. There were no nonreligious meditative practices until a little over a hundred years ago because culture was inherently religious, but not "mindfullness" is the new hotness.

So for Travis, there is nothing new under the sun. Everything is frivolous, a chasing after the wind- smartest guy in history
 
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Hey tj... I used to work for Roy Masters when he was in Los Angeles in the '70's. A most remarkable man. His approach is quite similar to zen "just sitting" with Christian ideology. Two completely different ideologies promoting the same practice testify to its validity.

"Be still and know I am God"
 
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Tj Jefferson wrote:
First, I am struck with how this guy is considered controversial and radical. Controversial because what he is saying would have been standard psychology teaching when I was in university 20 years ago.



He became well known and was considered controversial when he publicly stated he would not be forced into using non-standard pronouns (i.e. zie, zim, etc...) after the mandatory use of preferred pronouns was passed into law.

Then as he gained popularity some other fairly standard views were labeled as controversial too (i.e. psychological differences between men and women).

 
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Lucrecia Anderson wrote:

Tj Jefferson wrote:
First, I am struck with how this guy is considered controversial and radical. Controversial because what he is saying would have been standard psychology teaching when I was in university 20 years ago.



He became well known and was considered controversial when he publicly stated he would not be forced into using non-standard pronouns (i.e. zie, zim, etc...) after the mandatory use of preferred pronouns was passed into law.

Then as he gained popularity some other fairly standard views were labeled as controversial too (i.e. psychological differences between men and women).



Exactly, I think this is why he is controversial.  Some topics don't allow for public debate at the university level.  What many of those protesting didn't realize was that he refused to use the pronouns because it was mandated by law.   In his words, "mandated by fiat."  

So he basically rejects the criminalization of free speech. ' I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."   Evelyn Beatrice Hall
 
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Tj Jefferson wrote:First, I am struck with how this guy is considered controversial and radical. Controversial because what he is saying would have been standard psychology teaching when I was in university 20 years ago.



This sea change is an accurate indicator of a degenerating society.
 
Travis Johnson
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Greg Mamishian wrote:This might sound strange... but have you considered doing nothing? Doing nothing is actually doing something.



Stress is certainly part of my issue, what is causing it is to be debated. Stress itself, or perceived stress from a poorly operating adrenal system?

If I sound like I am being difficult, I assure you I am not, no one wants to feel better than I do. While I have the utmost respect for a host of people on here, TJ knows I have the deepest respect for him, and hope you know that it extends to you as well.

To that end, I have a Dr appointment on Monday, and after flatlining two weeks ago at church, and being drug out on a stretcher, it is time to have a good discussion with my Dr. I am approaching it differently this time; like I am discussing things with my attorney; no worries about medical insurance coding, asking for things in case she can do some of my requests, etc...just like attorney-client privledge where there is total honesty.

But I have done what you suggested and it was interesting to say the least. I used to do massage therapy every 3 weeks, and for about a year I had a massage therapist that was into something called "Shamballa" (Spelling might be wrong on that). This was with my permission, but he would work my muscles until I was relaxed, then just kind stay that way for half an hour or so. No physical massage. It was really what introduced me to, and what keeps me interested in Permie Stuff...I started to notice patterns...everywhere. I do not mean patterns in shells or whatnot, though they are there, but patterns in life. The more I noticed the patterns, the more I noticed my predictions based on them would be realized. I won't lie to you, it got spooky to the point that it sseemed to conflict with my Christianity; not so much the pattern part, but other parts. When I mentioned it, he said that often happens with people of faith.






 
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Travis Johnson wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:This might sound strange... but have you considered doing nothing? Doing nothing is actually doing something.



Stress is certainly part of my issue, what is causing it is to be debated. Stress itself, or perceived stress from a poorly operating adrenal system?

If I sound like I am being difficult, I assure you I am not, no one wants to feel better than I do. While I have the utmost respect for a host of people on here, TJ knows I have the deepest respect for him, and hope you know that it extends to you as well.



I do, Travis.

There is nothing wrong with us having different views because we each live different lives. Heck, if our views weren't different there would be nothing for us to talk about with each other. (lol)

In regards to stress I found that the problem wasn't so much the stress itself as it was how I responded to it. Taking time to sit still is a non-response to stress. After a while, that nonreactive state becomes part of you enough to be portable so you can take it with you wherever you go and no matter what you do.

I like that sitting is totally free and costs absolutely nothing... because I'm really cheap. (lol)

 
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Travis Johnson wrote:To that end, I have a Dr appointment on Monday, and after flatlining two weeks ago at church, and being drug out on a stretcher, it is time to have a good discussion with my Dr. I am approaching it differently this time; like I am discussing things with my attorney; no worries about medical insurance coding, asking for things in case she can do some of my requests, etc...just like attorney-client privledge where there is total honesty.



Travis I mentioned this in another thread, not sure if you saw the post. You keep mentioning "your doctor", not sure if this is a GP or specialist or what, but have you tried other specialists? I would consider seeing someone like a neuropsychiatrist and getting their opinions on possible chemical/hormonal issues. They focus strictly on brain function, and what affects brain function (hormones, chemicals, physical issues etc...), as such they are aware of things that other docs may have never even heard of.

And I always approach doctor's visits like a lawyers visit. Lay out the problem and get their professional opinion on what is causing it, what can be done about it etc... I also ask for stats, what is the percentage of success with this vs. that treatment? If they don't know errrm...well that is good to be aware of. I am skeptical (because I don't like or trust  doctors in general). I usually take what they say and then do a bunch of my own research to see if I agree with their opinion.

They have their agenda, and I have my own. I need to discern whether their agenda and methodology/plan suits my agenda.
 
Travis Johnson
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Lucrecia Anderson wrote:Travis I mentioned this in another thread, not sure if you saw the post. You keep mentioning "your doctor", not sure if this is a GP or specialist or what, but have you tried other specialists?



I have a team of specialists, but my Primary Doctor seems to be the most willing to help, has the most resources, is in no hurry to kick me out the door, and happens to be the wife of my neurologist. He is amazingly gifted on his own, spending time with my daughter enough to determine she had brain lesions that Dartmouth-Hitchcock Drs had missed 10 years earlier. Thankfully she has medication that is now treating both of her types of seizures, and thus did not need brain surgery.

I am encouraged of my Dr visit tomorrow because my hope is based upon a gifted DR, and NOT a treatment, which I have done in the past.
 
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