Growing and efficiently producing food for dogs

I think many people here would know that much of commercial dog food is largely over processed corn with added nutrients. So I have been thinking if a person were to decide to feed their dogs on a regular diet of meat it would quickly become inefficient for the hobby farmer because they can consume meat products typically in higher quantities than humans (Depends of size of course). Also while a person could grow a large amount of corn to set aside for animal feed, removing the kernels, drying them, and then further processing may provide more work than an individual would want and they may just rather purchase commercial dog food.

So for the permaculturist looking for ease and efficiency within natural means of production there are many vegetables I am sure than can be used for bulk dog food, but has anyone done this or has anyone seen any work done on this? I would love to see what are some viable options for homesteaders to feed their dogs in a healthy and holistic manner than is also efficient. I also figure one could ration and dry meat after a butcher to supplement a dog's diet with the food they need as well. Any thoughts on this?

When my dog was younger and we were breeding her and I had more time I used to make food for her. It was primarily sweet potatoes, nuts, stems from the greens we eat, and whatever random organ meats we could get ahold of. I would think that the ideal diet for a permie homesteader dog would be organ meats from hunted and farmed animals, tree nuts, squash and potatoes/sweet potatoes, and then surplus from whatever you have seasonally (fruits, berries, veggies). And of course some broth.

There is a modern fad with dog owners to feed a raw diet. The logic goes that a dog is descended from a wolf, and wolves eat raw meat. Thus dogs "should" eat raw meat too. It sounds appealing, but doesn't really hold up. Yes, in the distant past dogs were descended from wolves, but they have spent the last 10,000 years or so living alongside man with our cook fires and our scraps. The dogs that were best adapted to eating as omnivores survived, thrived and bred. And they evolved to cope best with a cooked diet, made up of whatever food scraps were available. On top of that, cooking food kills parasites like worms.

I guess my take home is that
1) It is only in fairly recent history that dogs were given prepared meals, as opposed to scraps.
2) They like meat, but they don't need it (unlike Cats!)
3) They do better on cooked food - it is safer and they can extract more nutrients from it.

Thus trying to raise dogs on what you can grow for yourself becomes a very similar question to what can you grow to feed yourself?

I feed my dog only 1/3 cup of the commercial dog food a day for breakfast.  She weighs 10+ lbs.  She eats three times a day.  The other meals are mostly green beans, carrots, and pumpkin.  

I have started feeding her brown rice cooked in bone broth made with bones and any veggies scraps I have.

She also gets raw and cooked deer, but not always on a regular basis.  The raw is usually in the form of treats.

Ever since I learned about it, I've avoided any dog food that has corn. When I first switched to cornless kibble, my dog's droppings improved a lot. There are plenty of choices available now that don't have corn.

Fresh roadkill would certainly be an option, where legal.  Heck, even decidedly unfresh roadkill would be fine, as far as the dog's digestion and taste preference goes, but I wouldn't be too keen on handling it.  Perhaps get in touch with your local wildlife/conservation agent and ask to be notified of reported local roadkills, and offer to receive any confiscated poached meat or animals they come across.

Another option might be to set out a trap line.  You could process and sell the furs, and feed the meat to the dog(s).

I usually carry a .22 rifle with me while cutting firewood, in case any squirrels are present.  About half the time I'll clean them and eat them, and the other half they'll go to the dog.

A deep freeze, of course, would be a good thing to have on hand, as legal trapping and hunting seasons tend to be relatively short, as does roadkill "season."

Here, we feed scraps from animal slaughter to our dog.  She has a particular fondness for poultry heads and deer legs.  When she's had her fill she'll bury the excess here and there, resurrecting them as needed.

I've also noted that she's usually quite content to munch on the grain mix I throw out for the poultry.  Has me wondering about the feasibility of feeding her that, either as-is or cooked into a gruel.  It would be better, surely, and certainly cheaper than even the budget dog food I normally buy.  My understanding is that farm dogs of yesteryear were typically fed the same porridge (often oats) that the farm family had for breakfast; just make a little extra, and supplement it with some skimmed milk and other table scraps.

We use a lot of fat in our cooking, which our plumbing tends not to appreciate.  So if we have a pan or bowl with fat that we don't want to reuse, or with a thin layer of fat that we can't salvage but that would cling to the pipes if washed down the sink, we'll just put it out on the porch to let the dog lick it clean.  It's a win-win.

As far as the dog's health is concerned, I read something a while back that noted that dogs fed a budget purchased dog food and allowed to roam freely (within reason, at least) and supplement the diet given to them with things like moles and field mice and the like were just as healthy as dogs fed a premium dog food.  In fact, we go long stretches without "feeding" our dog anything at all; she has 25 acres to roam, is able to excerpt things from the gut bucket (we slaughter birds May through October, then deer in November), and has a cache of body parts buried around the yard from which to draw.

Hi Kevin,

I second the idea that an exclusively raw meat diet, or raw food diet in general, is largely unsuitable for dogs.

I don't know about grains in general, but we noticed a huge improvement from our Golden Retriever years back when we switched from a big commercial brand with lots of grain filler (probably corn, as it was cheap) to a smaller company that sold one that was sweet potato and salmon-based. He stopped getting ear infections and hot spots in the whorls of his fur, and he regained some of his lost puppy energy (he was about 8 at the time, and had just slowed down a bit).

I think comparing human-provided raw meat and canine-hunted fresh meat are not the same thing, where the dog is concerned. I think that, because the whole raw animal is being eaten, or at least, in all likelihood, the soft parts that include the digestive system and the intact gut flora of the prey, are being consumed by the dog, those bacteria can more easily be incorporated into that of the dog, to aid in digestion of the raw meat. It's like probiotics for canines.

While I don't doubt that back in the day before commercial dog food was available, dogs ate grain porridges like their humans, but with some scrap additions, I think I personally would look to sweet potatoes, or the conventional ones, or maybe sunchokes instead. I would have to try them all out, because at the end of the day, the dog's sense of taste and smell will be informing their appetites. But I think, in terms of the foodstuffs that early domesticated canines ate that wasn't offal from the hunt, or cooked meat scraps, cooked tubers are probably closer than grains to what they probably first habituated to.

-CK

Michael Cox wrote:
I guess my take home is that
1) It is only in fairly recent history that dogs were given prepared meals, as opposed to scraps.
2) They like meat, but they don't need it (unlike Cats!)
3) They do better on cooked food - it is safer and they can extract more nutrients from it.

I pretty much agree with this. Our school has been feeding some local dogs for the past couple of years. The dogs were feral, but a Swedish volunteer started feeding them and domesticating them, and the situation has improved. The school's kitchen is vegetarian, and we're feeding the leftovers, so it's mostly rice, dal, bread, assorted vegetables or eggs sometimes. The Swedish woman sometimes gets meat scraps and bones from the butcher, but at most once a week, if that. The dogs seem to like it just fine. I don't know anything about their digestion, though, as they are not indoor or even quite pets.

I will put my vote in that dogs are carnivores.  I feed raw and have done so for years for many dogs.  In reality dogs can live on a shocking variety of foods and survive, but in my experience raw fed pooches have been the healthiest.  No stinky greasy dog odor, no eye boogers, no itching, no rashes, no ear gunk, no bad breath, pearly white teeth, trim robust healthy weight, and beautiful soft coats.  Not to mention less boredom when they get to satisfy carnal behaviors eating Whole Foods every day, and a very spunky pooch into old age to boot!  Ok, maybe some gnarly farts now and again, but it’s worth it to me!

We flourish mostly on a combination of road salvaged deer and home raised rabbits.  4 working does should provide a daily meal for a very large dog, and they are incredibly simple to raise.  I keep mine on open ground in a colony.  I usually cull the males and sell the females.  My breeding stock have names, but the offspring are dog food, I avoid attaching to the kits.  I have no problem butchering, I know the value of the whole system.  The rabbits live healthy happy lives and the dogs get food nature intended.  Plus I’m not paying $$$ for premium specialty kibble that my dogs won’t get rashes from.   I personally use cervical dislocation to dispatch.  A shovel handle over the neck, step on the handle, pull up on the back legs.  No screaming, no bleeding, no thrashing, it’s instant, and you don’t have to look.  And if for some reason you don’t get it right the first time, it’s paralyzed and can’t feel pain, unlike hacking off a chickens head only halfway :s. Oh how I hated butchering like that!  Cervical dislocation is the only way for me these days!

I also raise chickens and turkeys, which, if your dogs will eat poultry, can be a great way to supplement and diversify.  My dog is too spoiled...  she’d pick rabbit over anything any day, but otherwise she demands red meat.  The booger!  A small flock with broody hens can raise dozens of birds for you in a year, providing months of dog food.  Many folks are terrified of poultry bones.  I’m not here to debate it.  My dogs have been eating raw and cooked carcasses for almost a decade.  I’ll leave it at that.
 The only problem with bones I’ve had was a puppy swallowing a large piece of raw deer bone.  She passed it, but it was painful for her.  When she pooped it out finally, boy she sniffed that turd carefully, pinpointed the bone, and said “never again” .  From that day on she spat out any tough piece larger than 1”.  Smart girl!

I’ve also tried quail...  if you can manage to contain and protect them and want to incubate eggs manually, they’re very prolific.  I will get back into them someday, but they do need a special setup.  Quail make great meals for small dogs and cats.  I used to dehydrated skinned quail for. Hiking with th e dogs- quail cookies!  Easy, lightweight foodstuffs.  I do this with fish as well, crunchy fish cookies loaded with good oils and nourishment.

I also raise pigeons,  they’re not terribly prolific, but easy to keep, easy to feed, pleasant to have around, and they produce a surprising amount of meat with thick tasty fat, reminiscent of duck.  I use them mostly for cat food as the dogs have plenty to eat.

My philosophy with raw meat is that every part of the animal makes the whole food.  The skin, fur, tendons, blood, bones, organs, guts, brain, cartilage.  Every bit of it is fabulously nourishing.  Raw meat poos are small, odorless (usually), and break down incredibly quickly.  If You have the means and the stomach for it, I avidly encourage going raw!


Edit:
Permaculture is the focus here, and I’d like to point out that while I currently do not have a system for feeding my livestock from my own property, here’s the real expense breakdown:
10 rabbits in two breeding groups, forage in spring and summer, hay and grain in winter.  Summer costs maybe $7/mo for everyone, winter costs around $20/mo for hay and grain.  No maintenance, all salvaged or h9me made materials for nest boxes, and enrichment.  Producing well over 60 kits per month.  1 kit is one to two days of food.  My 70lb dog can take 2 days to eat a whole rabbit, the 130lb pooch can eat one a day.  That’s max $20 a month to feed 200lbs of dog.

6 pigeons, three breeding pairs, less than $1 per month in grain year round.  Living with the rabbits in an open air pen they can fly around in and breed naturally.  A pair can produce 8-12 squabs in a year.  Each dressing out to about a 6-8 ounce thick, meaty bird, easily 2 days of food for 1 cat.  That’s over 20 squabs a year in supplemental food for less than $12.

I estimate my chickens and heritage turkeys cost high end $.50 per bird per month during summer, and $1 per bird per month in winter.  I’ve had flocks of 10 and flock of 100.  I sell lots of chicks and they more than pay for themselves.  I butchered 60 cockerels last fall, so poultry has been a plentiful supplement this winter.  Between meat, eggs, and livestock sales, they are an invaluable self perpetuating asset.

Quail would cost pennies each per month in feed.  A hen might lay20-30 eggs a month.  Incubating them, you can reasonably produce 50 quail per month per laying hen.  They grow fast and don’t take half a year to fill out like chickens, butchering of cortunix  is usually around 8 weeks.   Talk about a turn around!  Just gotta have a way of containing the buggers at all ages and be willing to incubate.  They can’t be free ranged like pigeons and poultry.  A breeding trio would provide food for 2-3 cats each month for probably $3 per month in grain, considering you gotta feed all them baby quail too . Obviously power expenses come in with incubating and brooding. Someday I will try bantam hens to hatch quail eggs. I’ve heard it can work, and she replaces the incubator and brooder both!

Jen Rose wrote:I will put my vote in that dogs are carnivores.  I feed raw and have done so for years for many dogs.  In reality dogs can live on a shocking variety of foods and survive, but in my experience raw fed pooches have been the healthiest.  No stinky greasy dog odor, no eye boogers, no itching, no rashes, no ear gunk, no bad breath, pearly white teeth, trim robust healthy weight, and beautiful soft coats.  Not to mention less boredom when they get to satisfy carnal behaviors eating Whole Foods every day, and a very spunky pooch into old age to boot!  Ok, maybe some gnarly farts now and again, but it’s worth it to me!

We flourish mostly on a combination of road salvaged deer and home raised rabbits.  4 working does should provide a daily meal for a very large dog, and they are incredibly simple to raise.  I keep mine on open ground in a colony.  I usually cull the males and sell the females.  My breeding stock have names, but the offspring are dog food, I avoid attaching to the kits.  I have no problem butchering, I know the value of the whole system.  The rabbits live healthy happy lives and the dogs get food nature intended.  Plus I’m not paying $$$ for premium specialty kibble that my dogs won’t get rashes from.   I personally use cervical dislocation to dispatch.  A shovel handle over the neck, step on the handle, pull up on the back legs.  No screaming, no bleeding, no thrashing, it’s instant, and you don’t have to look.  And if for some reason you don’t get it right the first time, it’s paralyzed and can’t feel pain, unlike hacking off a chickens head only halfway :s. Oh how I hated butchering like that!  Cervical dislocation is the only way for me these days!

I also raise chickens and turkeys, which, if your dogs will eat poultry, can be a great way to supplement and diversify.  My dog is too spoiled...  she’d pick rabbit over anything any day, but otherwise she demands red meat.  The booger!  A small flock with broody hens can raise dozens of birds for you in a year, providing months of dog food.  Many folks are terrified of poultry bones.  I’m not here to debate it.  My dogs have been eating raw and cooked carcasses for almost a decade.  I’ll leave it at that.
 The only problem with bones I’ve had was a puppy swallowing a large piece of raw deer bone.  She passed it, but it was painful for her.  When she pooped it out finally, boy she sniffed that turd carefully, pinpointed the bone, and said “never again” .  From that day on she spat out any tough piece larger than 1”.  Smart girl!

I’ve also tried quail...  if you can manage to contain and protect them and want to incubate eggs manually, they’re very prolific.  I will get back into them someday, but they do need a special setup.  Quail make great meals for small dogs and cats.  I used to dehydrated skinned quail for. Hiking with th e dogs- quail cookies!  Easy, lightweight foodstuffs.  I do this with fish as well, crunchy fish cookies loaded with good oils and nourishment.

I also raise pigeons,  they’re not terribly prolific, but easy to keep, easy to feed, pleasant to have around, and they produce a surprising amount of meat with thick tasty fat, reminiscent of duck.  I use them mostly for cat food as the dogs have plenty to eat.

My philosophy with raw meat is that every part of the animal makes the whole food.  The skin, fur, tendons, blood, bones, organs, guts, brain, cartilage.  Every bit of it is fabulously nourishing.  Raw meat poos are small, odorless (usually), and break down incredibly quickly.  If You have the means and the stomach for it, I avidly encourage going raw!

I fall somewhere in-between.  I believe that meat is absolutely essential for a dog, but I also feed vegetables and fruits.  I personally don't feed much raw meat to the dogs, but they do get raw venison and they eat rodents that they catch.  I certainly don't think cooked meat is harmful, but the meat they get is usually our leftovers, so it's cooked by default

I’ll post a new post instead of editing and infinitely adding to my last :p.

I point out the costs because, as op mentioned, sometimes work like threshing grains is just too much on a tiny scale.  I buy grains in bulk.  Non gmo, but not organic. I’d pay double if I could find it!  I buy whole, unprocessed 50lb bags for $4-9 each, depending on the grain, and mix custom feeds for each critter.  I fill 20 and 55 gallon metal drums with locking lids.  It’s pretty easy and depending on how many animals I have at a time, I may need grain monthly or just every 6 months. I buy hay once or twice a year, local organic.  For the minimal effort and expense, I am okay with not providing the food myself.  I’d love to!  But I’m not there yet.  So it depends on how diehard you wanna be about self sufficiency.

I haven’t explored large livestock as dog foodstuffs yet.  My goats cost me $10 per goat per month high end, during winter.  Meat goats and sheep might be viable , but larger animals needs more space, more care, cost more, and are noisy.  A dozen rabbits can live in a pen not suited to keeping a single goat in, they’re silent, produce fur and manure, are prolific. And also cheap to replace if the colony has a predator mishap...

I like small livestock, and I like diversity.  Don’t put all the eggs in one basket

Hunting and roadkill salvage can be great too.  My 70lb dog can be fed for 1 week off of a fawn sized deer, or perhaps 3 weeks off a large adult.  Right now the two dogs we have can polish off an adult deer in 7-10 days.  Think 4-5lbs a day between the two, and add a pound for the cats.  Currently we chop them up with a demo saw (frozen) and pack and freeze daily portions into the chest freezer.  Due to predators and other dogs, where we're at it's not possible to leave a deer sitting out.  I've had two living situations where I could just lay the whole deer out and let the dogs go to town.  I learned a lot about eating and pack habits around a large kill, it was an invaluable experience.  At one time I had 4 dogs working on 3 deer on the property (all roadkill).  It was so cool!

They took turns, a dog was always out on guard duty.  The first thing they go for are the perishables; organs and guts.  Usually the stomach is removed and the partially digested grass and the tripe are eaten slowly and supplementally.  When I say I vote that dogs are carnivores, that's not to say they don't eat vegetation!  Eating whole prey results in a good amount of foliage ingestion on the dog's part!  (plus lots of dirt too, eating off the ground, good minerals and roughage!)  Same with cats; eating birds and rodents results in ingesting a lot of grains and greens.  I theorize that the partially digested vegetation is easier for the carnivores to assimilate, but it's a shot in the dark.
Either way, back to the dog feast; the stomach is removed but kept close by, the lower intestines eaten on slowly, the vital organs eaten first. (and fetus if applicable).  Then I observe that they wait.  They age the meat.  As the meat ripens it becomes easier to digest, even in humans (thus aging meat), but also the skin decomposes and makes the body much easier to break into.  Having fed off large organs for a day or many, nibbling off ear cartilage and crunchy nose bits, plus a few bites from the haunches, they eventually start on consuming the meat itself.  The carcass is eventually reduced to a tough rail of spine and pelvis and only the toughest part of the skull, plus a mess of skin and fur.  But even then the dogs have come back after the skin has dried to a crisp and enjoyed the jerky.  All of the animals have to take turns opening the carcass, even the cats contribute!  It's really quite the community affair!  Obviously these observations have been with dogs who are patient and far from starving.  I'm sure hunger level affects wait time ;)


Sorry if that was TMI, but my experiences have shaped my feeding philosophies.  There's much to be learned by observing!   There are infinite possibilities for feeding your dogs and cats, they can survive on a wide variety of foodstuffs.  I enjoy nature at it's more unadulterated, and getting to see my dog indulge in her natural behaviors is satisfying to me.  And that's just me!

(also wanna point out that my wanna-be mini wolf is also a fabulous farm dog, completely trustworthy with all livestock, down to a newborn bunny.  feeding raw does not make a dog aggressive or a killer!  any dog has that potential.  in my personal opinion, a dog on a poor nutrition diet may be just as likely, if not more likely, to start killing due to dietary deficiency. at the end of the day training, exercise, and conditioning are the absolute biggest factor influencing behavior.  again, just my opinions, we all have plenty of them :))

I have the best method for making food for dogs.  This method hinges around using an Instant Pot electric pressure cooker.  This is an amazing tool to have in your kitchen, because you can make almost everything with it, in less time.  Now, about the pupper food....  

Inside the instant pot, I put the little grate at the bottom, and put water in the bottom of the pan, just a little below the grate.  The water is important to make steam for pressure.  Now, I just stack the chicken in on the grate.  I cook this on high pressure for like 15 to 20 minutes.  It doesn't take long for the chicken to be cooked, and you can even cook it while frozen.  When the chicken is done, the instant pot needs vented.  The pressure would release naturally, but I like to speed the process up.  I fold a dish cloth over a few times, and place this on the vent while I open it.  Hot steam will shoot out, but it will be dissipated by the dish cloth.  If you don't put a cloth there, it will vent and spread moisture over your kitchen.  Now your chicken is cooked for you.  I use chicken quarters because they are generally the cheapest meat.  I find it between 25 and 50 cents a pound quite regularly, but you can use any part of the chicken for this method.  

Now, remove the chicken from the instant pot, and pour off the juice and drippings.  I save this broth material for my dogs.  It's time to process the meat.  You'll find that the meat comes off easier than any method, and the fat is very simple to separate.  All of the good meat goes into one container for people eating, and everything else is going to get processed for the dogs.  The fat, gristle, skin, and bones all go back into the instant pot.  Don't forget to put water in the bottom, because you are going to be using the pressure cooker again.  This is where the magic happens.

Again, I set to high pressure but now I cook for about 45 minutes.  Do not worry about over cooking at this juncture.  After the 45 minutes, release the steam with the dishcloth over the valve again.  Open the lid and check the bones.  The idea here is that the pressure cooking will render the bones down.  You should be able to smush the bones with your fingers.  If you can't, you need some more cooking.  It's fine to throw it back in for another 45 minutes, but you might not need that long.  The bones should be done now.  

Here's where safety plays a part ... because dogs can get hurt by chicken bones.  They say that you can feed them raw bones, but I prefer this method much better.  All of the bones go into a food processor, where they just dissentigrate like I have never seen before.  This is when you check and make sure that all of the bones are processed.  You can always put them back into the instant pot, but the initial 45 minutes should be long enough.  When processed, this turns into a bone and blood meal mush.  When refrigerated, this congeals and looks exactly like ALPO or other canned dog food (except you know what is in it).  

Your method from here can vary, depending on what you desire to feed to your dogs.  Personally, I purchase a huge bag of rice from Sam's Club and supplement it with other veggies.  I cook up a huge batch of rice in the instant pot, and set it aside.  Then, I steam some sweet potatoes (or whatever else I'm feeding them).  This gets all mixed up in big bowls to make the dog's food.  I add in the processed bone, the fat and skin that's been cooked more, the rice and the potatoes.  This goes into smaller containers and goes straight into my fridge.  My dogs loved it, and it always gave them good sheen and coloring to their coats.  

Sure, I know that rice, chicken and sweet potatoes isn't full nutrition for my dogs, but it was much better than store purchased food.  I admit that I purchase kibble for them also, sometimes.  If I have any kibble, I mix it with the homemade food at about 30% kibble to 70% homemade.  All of the bones are completely broken up.  There are no shards, no sharp points, or anything to worry about.  The pressure cooking and the food processor took care of that.  It is my belief that this method helps, because it provides all of the bone marrow and nutrients to the dogs.  

The best part about using this method, is that the chicken cooked for human consumption is absolutely delectable also.  I can not overstate how tender and juicy this chicken is.  If I am feeling nice, I also throw all of the non-optimal pieces of chicken in for the dogs.  I wouldn't pressure cook this again, but leave it to mix in to all of the components at the end.  

I would do this same method if I was raising poultry on the homestead, but I would use more of the carcass from chicken butchering.  I would include more organs for my dogs, since I don't care to eat them.  I would also try using the entire skeleton including the head.  I can't think of much in there that would hurt the dog.  The additional cartilage from the neck and feet would help congeal the dog food even more.  Sure, I doubt the beak would break down... but I don't know.  It really should, but I haven't tried it yet.  To me, this seems like the method of least waste possible.  

As for my homestead livestock, I plan to have a variety of smaller and quieter animals to breed for food.  These are muscovy ducks, quail, guinea pigs, rabbits, nigerian dwarf goats, black soldier flies, and superworms.  I "may" have some guinea hogs, but I'm not sure that I want to make that move.  The other animals will suffice, but the guinea hogs will be great for clearing land for me.  This being feasible all depends on your area and the climate.  I have talked to many local restaurants, and have secured agreements to get their food waste from them.  I have found seafood, chinese buffets, bbq, mexican restaurants, and coffee shops that are all more than willing to save their food waste.  Yes, the majority of this will be for compost, but I expect to get a bunch of usable food for my livestock.  The chinese buffets say that they will have 3 or 4 five gallon buckets each night for me.  I just have to pick them up after 9 o'clock.  

Everything that I raise will be for human consumption ... yes, I plan to eat guinea pigs.  They are delicious.  My goal is to be self sustainable with my livestock.  I want to grow enough veggies and have enough offspring to feed all of my livestock.  Supplementing this with food waste from local restaurants gives me redundancy in case of emergency.  I would like if my livestock can feed a couple of dogs and a couple of cats.  This should help give protection to all of my animals.  

This is an interesting thread.  My family has fed dogs - almost all large dogs - raw meat for about 40 years.  We've never had a parasite problem.  We fed mostly raw chicken backs, necks and legs, also beef.  With my current dog, a 40 lb labradoodle, he's 13 now, and I feed him ground beef, chicken or turkey.  Store bought at the moment.  We're in an area with little local food options.  Last year, he made it clear he was tired of chewing chicken bones, so I made this switch.  I also feed him raw milk, and an assortment of vegetables, some cooked some raw.  If I had access to a fair amount of raw milk, that would be a heavier part of his diet.  When I got him, he was 1 1/2 years old and had the sort of benign skin tumors poodle breeds get, which was incredibly unusual for such a young dog.  I put him on raw food and the skin things went away in 2 weeks.

I've found dogs really do well on meat.  And I don't think raw is a fad - the comment above that dogs evolved on years of cooking scraps, well, they also had to hunt for themselves (rodents and such), and would have been given milk if they were on such a farm, and would have been given tons of raw kitchen scraps as well, and eaten out of whatever sort of compost pile they could get into.  Dogs are scavengers as well as hunters, and my understanding of their digestive system is that it's extremely acid-based, designed for digesting raw bone and meat and killing parasites.  My current vet says that a healthy dog should "gulp" his food, and be able to digest most anything that is from an animal.  That one thing to watch for is one's dog carefully chewing his food, he claims that points to a loss of stomach acid (which leads to health decline), or a bad tooth.

One of my dogs killed a small deer one year, and we let her eat it.  And did she...It took her 4 days, and she ate every single bit of it.  Hair, skin, bones...  The last thing left over was sort of a macabre sight, she was carrying the head around in her mouth, looking outward.  She was so happy and proud though!  The next day, the head was completely gone, she had eaten it all too.

A friend of a friend raises guinea pigs for food, and also feeds them to her dogs, whole. She kills them first.  Those are also happy dogs.  I don't think I have the stomach for that one, as I've kept guinea pigs as pets for decades.  They are great pre-composters, I feed kitchen, garden and yard scraps.  But from a dog's perspective they are living squeaky toys....  The rabbits as food mentioned above seems a similar idea.  I saw in a Marjory Wildcraft video how she feeds her dogs the skin, fur and I think guts from the rabbits, raw, as her family eats a ton of rabbit. I've met others who did this with chicken and duck skins and guts, people who raised bird for food but got tired of pulling feathers.  Very healthy, tons of collagen!  Yumm...  I'm greedy though - I want the skin for myself.

Thanks for all the food ideas above.  Great thread!

HARVESTING INSECTS FOR DOG FOOD---This is anecdotal, and I have not tried to calculate nutritional value, but it's worth considering.   And a big freezer is helpful.   Setting up old white sheets and tarps at night in spring an summer with a standard light bulb lighting it up.   Wait bout 10 minutes for the night insects to cover the sheet, fold up the sheet and pop into freezer (I put the folded sheet into an old dog 50# food bag, as there were insects on both sides of sheet and I didn't want to spill them).  In this way I have collected up to 10 pounds of insects in one night.  Obviously, this would not work year-round in the Columbia Gorge, so gotta store them (I use old bread bags and compress them after they have been collected from the frozen sheet,  then return them to freezer).   I have some soy sauce in a spray bottle, and the pyrenees and labradoodle both love frozen insects with a soy sauce spray.   I have also sketched out a light trap with a funnel and collection pit/cage.  Hope someone will run with this and teach me something...   Squirrels and scrawny rabbits are a lot of labor to process and cook (or not) for doggie...

Hello!

I didn't read through the entire thread, so if somebody already covered this, my apologies. Producing your own dog food would of course be much healthier for your dog, but also more expensive. Keep in mind healthier would be assuming you know how to ballence and optimize canine nutrition for maximum health. My suggestion would be feed them whole byproducts of homesteading practices. For example you can raise rex rabbits for pelts to sell as an income source, but the age of the rabbit at harvest, usually makes the meat to tough for an easily marketable product. So that whole food byproduct could be used for dog food. You can also use spent layers for dog food, assuming you aren't interested in that meat for your own consumption. Yes soups could be made from any tough meat, but if you have more tought meat that can fit in your soup pot, dog food is an option. You can also give your dogs the strained leftovers from making bone broth, since the bones become soft from the acidity in the vinegar, and they always seem filled with abundant meat scraps.

Bottom line, if your going to make your own dog food, you have many creative ways to do so. As long as you understand canine health and nutrition, so you can increase bio-available ballenced nutrition. Without creating deficiencies or an over abundance of certian nutritional elements.

Just my 2 cents!

This is how we feed our dogs and cat at the moment and how we will develop this as we grow more of our own food.

I use my canner.  I add 8 chicken carcasses and one chopped ham bone which are readily available here but can be omitted.  I cook up 1 kg of lentils or white beans separately.  I cover with water AND 2 TABLE SPOONS OF CIDER VINEGAR and pressure cook for 2.5 hours.  when cool I divide the bones and beans between 8 720 ml jars and 8 380 ml jars.  These are the size jars that stack in my canner.  I divide the 'gravy' between the jars and asd 1/3 cups broken rice (white rice not brown) to the small jars and 1/2 cups to the larger jars.  Make sure all are topped to 2.5 cm or 1 inch from top of jars and cook on appropriate pressure for 17 minutes. You need to experiment a bit with sizes of jars but I can normally get 2 runs from the amount of chicken and beans and rice.  I add whatever other vegetables I have, potatoes, carrots, squash etc but this is my 'winter' recipe.  The vinegar makes the bones soft and non-dangerous for dogs.  All the cartilage and other bone goodies and dissolved in the broth - essentially bone broth that is being hailed at the panecea of all ills at the moment, but certainly good for joints which is great for larger dogs.  
Our two boxers love this and the vet has confirmed they are in super tip top condition, having been on this for over a yeqr now.  Of course, how much you feed is relative to the size of your dog.  

All hail the canner!

My last batch contained lungs that I got from the butcher.  As I progress I will up the amount of beans and veg to the cans.  When we butcher our own pigs I'll include brains, hear and lungs, ears and feet, all pressure cooked first for  sanitary reasons but also to release the goodies.  

Hope this helps

We have a collie Lab cross (22kg) and a pug (8kg) the collie has been on raw food since she was 11 weeks and the pug since age 1. They get chicken legs/thighs for breakfast and then slaughterhouse waste for dinner. We buy the pluck from a local slaughterhouse, so liver, heart, lungs, kidneys, tongue and if it is pork normally the trachea and other tubing as well. It is important to balance it with ours receiving around 10% bone 80% meat (includes lung and heart) and 10% organs (includes Liver, kidney, spleen etc).
The cats are not so lucky they get cheap kibble (free fed) and as many mice/voles/rats as they want. I want my cats to go catch their own, I do not want to feed them all the food they desire they have free access to all the dried food they could possibly eat but it is one type. one flavour and never changed, mice taste much better apparently and that is the whole idea.

Amanda Launchbury-Rainey wrote:This is how we feed our dogs and cat at the moment and how we will develop this as we grow more of our own food.

[..]

All hail the canner!

My last batch contained lungs that I got from the butcher.  As I progress I will up the amount of beans and veg to the cans.  When we butcher our own pigs I'll include brains, hear and lungs, ears and feet, all pressure cooked first for  sanitary reasons but also to release the goodies.  

Hope this helps

Amanda,

this sounds like a full time job just to provide some food for cats/dogs? ;-) The closest relative to a dogs are wolves and despite what is more or less predigested in the stomach of their victims their food is 100% meat/bones. Wolves will just left over bones to big for them to handle. Before you ask where I know this from, from wolves. They donated me once a big boar bone, which seemed their way of saying t h x, because I gave one of their small ones who got somehow lost for a time some food to survive.

As a hint, our dogs do not like pig meat much if at all, YMMV.

Skandi Rogers wrote:We have a collie Lab cross (22kg) and a pug (8kg) the collie has been on raw food since she was 11 weeks and the pug since age 1. They get chicken legs/thighs for breakfast and then slaughterhouse waste for dinner. We buy the pluck from a local slaughterhouse, so liver, heart, lungs, kidneys, tongue and if it is pork normally the trachea and other tubing as well. It is important to balance it with ours receiving around 10% bone 80% meat (includes lung and heart) and 10% organs (includes Liver, kidney, spleen etc).

The cats are not so lucky they get cheap kibble (free fed) and as many mice/voles/rats as they want. I want my cats to go catch their own, I do not want to feed them all the food they desire they have free access to all the dried food they could possibly eat but it is one type. one flavour and never changed, mice taste much better apparently and that is the whole idea.

Yep, our dogs like chicken legs/thighs pretty much, I feed this first if I grab a fresh load, as it tends to deteriorate first.

Unsure about "kibble", being not a native speaker. It might be industrial dry food, made with the most important/beloved machine the pet-food industry has. From my experience, the sound if a cat breaks those "kibbles" is a hell lot like as if a neck of a mice breaks! Sure this is not by chance! I also think cats do much better if they hunt for their own food. Though ours also eat from the dogs and gentle as they are, they let them eat first.

Interesting that you get (cheap?) liver. In Europe it is mostly sold not so cheap in a butchery, sure it tastes horrible but contains shitloads of vitamins, minerals and so on, almost anything, a real super-food!

Mike Homest wrote:

Interesting that you get (cheap?) liver. In Europe it is mostly sold not so cheap in a butchery, sure it tastes horrible but contains shitloads of vitamins, minerals and so on, almost anything, a real super-food!

I am in Europe Denmark to be precise, Pork liver normally costs more than pork loin as Danes love paté, but beef liver (not calves) but mature beef liver is cheap if you get it direct from a slaughterhouse. Most people don't want it back and it's not used for paté or anything.  I like liver I had calves liver for dinner, fried with bacon, lemon and parsley. Chicken/duck or lambs livers are also nice for humans, Personally I will leave pigs and cows for the animals.

We buy all our stuff for 6 or 7DKK a kg. which is about 90c in euros. if we have to get them pigs liver the whole lot costs a bit more around 1.50 euros a kg. so hardly expensive. But this is "waste". calves liver in the supermarket is around 70dkk (9euros) a kg.

Amanda,

this sounds like a full time job just to provide some food for cats/dogs? ;-) The closest relative to a dogs are wolves and despite what is more or less predigested in the stomach of their victims their food is 100% meat/bones. Wolves will just left over bones to big for them to handle. Before you ask where I know this from, from wolves. They donated me once a big boar bone, which seemed their way of saying t h x, because I gave one of their small ones who got somehow lost for a time some food to survive.


Actually one canning session, most of which involves watching the canner while doing other stuff, takes an afternoon  an give enough food for 3 weeks. The dogs LOVE all pig related produce. The canning is to preserve. All the bones go into the food. Big bones once cooked as described, become soft enough to eat without splintering.

Cats are most certainly capable of looking after themselves, all of our three cats are WILD kittens. two found (two different litters) in my barn and one in the FiL's barn, no one is feeding the mother or father, they do just fine themselves. Over here every few years they cull feral cats, We are rural these are not scrounging from dustbin cats these are for all intents and purposes wild, if they were not so good at surviving they would not need culling would they? Our best hunter is the oldest and only girl, I got her around 5 weeks just crawling about so mum never taught her anything and she kills 3-4 mice a day plus an occasional rat and vole. So they don't even need to be trained but can pick it up themselves. Fortunately she is not a birder, she's caught 4 birds than I know of and two of them escaped with some help.

Maybe the LGD could be fed table scraps:


Perhaps the LGD could be fed the same food as any other animals on the homestead:


Perhaps an automatic feeder could be built and filled with yummy morsels, instead of dog chow:

In a perfect world, no living creature would consume overprocessed, non organic, GMO food...personally, I do not live in this world.

I have concerns about feeding raw or roadkill. Dogs are NOT wolves, although, as many described, when faced with a carcass will always go for the herbivores stomach FIRST - this clearly puts dogs in the OMNIVORE category - so should never be fed straight meat.

The second issue with roadkill or raw is parasites - to say a dog "never has issues with parasites is strictly anecdotal, unless regular bloodwork and fecal floats are done. The dog may not SHOW effects from parasites, but that does not mean they do not exist, and are not transferable to humans or other livestock for whom they COULD be troublesome.

The same is true for animals encouraged to hunt/kill their own prey...human and or livestock transmission of parasites. The same is ALSO true of even home raised food fed raw.  

Medical treatment for parasites, be it the dog, the stock or the human IS expensive, and introducing nasty pharmaceuticals into the creature AND the environment. Ask anyone who has had to treat a dog for tapeworm - a large dog can easily be over $100.

I also want to caution against feeding (raw, pasturized...) milk to dogs or cats - there are always exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking they DO NOT deal well with lactose (the sugar in cow milk), as they lack the enzyme to break it down. There are always exceptions; animals raised on Dairy farms developed a tolerance, and through time this DOES continue in the odd animal, but as a whole, just look to the numbers of humans that are intolerant. For myself, I see this constantly in the desperately ill wild creatures I rescue who have been fed milk by well intentioned humans, the majority of which die as their tiny bodies simply cannot recover from the intestinal upset.

Lastly, the feeding of high fat or giving of fat drippings or congealed fat can be very risky, causing a condition called pancreatitis.  Again, each animal is individual - what is fine for one can kill another. The high holidays (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas) are a vet's busiest time for this as folks decide to treat their pets with the turkey pan full of drippings, or a meal of leftovers, smothered in gravy.

The second reason is the animal stole the carcass and consumed the cooked bones (worse than raw; cooked splinter and shatter). Again, yes, this is dependent on the animal, some do instinctively properly chew the bones before swallowing; yet as others state, chewing is not "normal" dog behavior - gulping IS.  Gulped/splintered bones ARE a common cause of impaction OR actual puncture within the digestive tract; both bones and pancreatitis will mean horrific pain and distress, along with very large vet bills, and potentially death.

YES, many dogs, miraculously manage, likely because they had older dogs to mimic proper eating, have learned which plants are natural purgatives, and supplement their diets with wild found foods. My concern is that, not knowing the POSSIBLE risks, someone takes their pet off kibble and without slow introduction to new feeding methods, COULD potentially cause great harm or death to their beloved pet.

The reason I harp on this is it can become a serious health issue, not only for the dogs, but potentially for the humans; especially with parasite transfer to the very young, older, or health compromised. Although I am not employed at a vet clinic, I spend, on average, 10 hours a week there (I take in broken, high medical care animals); and I see the results of these feeding methods, literally every time I'm there - and I watch their owners wrestle with paying to treat their pets, and euthanasia, as they simply cannot afford treatment. Most of us permies are NOT flush with cash. So please, take ALL risks into consideration, before opting for these cheaper/more natural feeding methods.

***because of the above, I regretfully stick with carefully considered kibble; Costco's house brands re an excellent compromise between quality and cost.

I feed raw. I've done tons of research, and taken classes in canine nutrition. Because we raise our own, I'm aware of any potential parasites, and prevent them, before they manifest. We raise our own chickens for eggs, ducks for meat & eggs, dairy goats, and have recently begun raising meat goats. Next spring, we plan to add more meat birds - chickens, ducks, and possibly pheasants and quail. In the meantime, we've found a local organic highland cattle rancher, and buy as much of our beef from him, as possible. We've also found a local fish market that is only open a few days a week, buys in small quantity, and donates everything not sold by the end of his 4 open days - and he's saving scraps for us, no charge,  because we're good customers & becoming friends. We buy produce from the local mennonite store, because we know them, and they only sell what is locally grown, by them and other mennonites. I've also found a couple of different brands of supplements, and we've begun growing our own blueberries (a staple in my dog's diet, because they help with tear staining).

Ok, this seems like a lot to do, for your dogs, right? And, no I've no delusions that 'anyone can do this' - not everyone is set up for it. But, we also don't just do it for the dogs. The dogs mostly eat things we'd be growing, buying, and eating ourselves, anyway. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the best possible way to feed our dogs.

I feed raw, and have done for many decades.  So past the debate of if its healthy or worthwhile. Its fine for my situation.

i source meat from the local meat wholesalers, markets, road kill, and neighbours donations of testes and tails of the lambs/cows.  
But substitute this with fish that we dont eat but catch, used to throw back, no more though. Bottom feeders for e/g/
All the rabbit and hares they obtain themselves.  Usually 2 per week each.

This year will be our first slaughter of our livestock. And scrap/unused meat, plus bones and offal will come from this. Hence self sustainable in a way most cannot do. Meat rabbits are most cost effecitve meat production system i looked into as alternative cheap meat.
I top up protein with:
Tallow
Chickens eggs
Raw milk and whey
Oily fish
Cheese ive ruined

I dont believe in dogs eating veg/nut substitutes. But as an ex vegetarian for 35yrs, can see why you'd want to.

The livestock guardian eats whatever the cows/sheep/chooks eat - and poop out. Disgusting, but natural for that breed. He eats very very little 500gm of meat/day compared to a working GSD that needs 1.5-2kg/day.
All pups are trained to not be fussy: ie. 10 mins to eat, then i lift bowl till next meal time. And i work them daily, so always hungry!



 

Lorinne Anderson wrote:I have concerns about feeding raw or roadkill. Dogs are NOT wolves, although, as many described, when faced with a carcass will always go for the herbivores stomach FIRST - this clearly puts dogs in the OMNIVORE category - so should never be fed straight meat.

I am not sure where you heard that dogs will eat stomach contents first, but having personally witnessed dogs eating whole carcasses, they go for the stomach LAST. It's the leftover that only gets eaten if nothing else is available and the animal(s) is still feeling hungry.

Lorinne Anderson wrote: The second issue with roadkill or raw is parasites - to say a dog "never has issues with parasites is strictly anecdotal, unless regular bloodwork and fecal floats are done. The dog may not SHOW effects from parasites, but that does not mean they do not exist, and are not transferable to humans or other livestock for whom they COULD be troublesome.

Parasites can show up in any dog, no matter what they are fed. I used to have a thriving pet-sitting business where I saw my share of tapeworms in dogs' stools, every single one of whom was fed kibble. Parasites can show up in any animal, no matter what they are eating.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:
Medical treatment for parasites, be it the dog, the stock or the human IS expensive, and introducing nasty pharmaceuticals into the creature AND the environment. Ask anyone who has had to treat a dog for tapeworm - a large dog can easily be over $100.

Again, I am wondering where you get that information from. I used to take care of a breeder's dogs, he had 7 of them. While he was away he wanted me to give his dogs their 2nd round of SafeGuard (Fenbendazole, a broad spectrum dewormer). He had a 1000 mL bottle that he purchased for about $100. Each dog required 5mL/pound of body weight. His dogs didn't weigh 100#s, they were Airedales. But let's take a 100# dog as an example:
To kill tapeworm, for which the aforementioned dewormer is known to be very effective, the dog requires 4 doses total, given over a 3 or 4 week period (I forget which, exactly). So that would be 20mL/dose X 4 doses= 80 mL total to get rid of the tapeworm in a 100# dog. Taking the 1000mL bottle that cost $100 and dividing that into 80mL doses would make getting rid of a 100# dog's tapeworm about $8 (1000/80=12.5. $100/12.5=8). Of course, if one buys a smaller bottle of the SafeGuard, it would cost a bit more to treat the dog, probably bringing it to maybe $12 or so. Still, nowhere near $100.
My own dogs have had tapeworm as well with the treatment not being anywhere close to the $100, not for tapeworm or any other type of worm I have ever treated for.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:Lastly, the feeding of high fat or giving of fat drippings or congealed fat can be very risky, causing a condition called pancreatitis.  Again, each animal is individual - what is fine for one can kill another. The high holidays (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas) are a vet's busiest time for this as folks decide to treat their pets with the turkey pan full of drippings, or a meal of leftovers, smothered in gravy.

This I agree with. Dogs are not meant to eat a diet high in fats. In nature, the wild prey canines catch all have low body fat since the vast majority of wild animals do. I do my best to mimic nature, finding it provides the best balance for everyone, and mimicking nature means providing a diet for dogs that ideally contains no more than 5% or so of fat. High fat is also bad for the liver.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:YES, many dogs, miraculously manage, likely because they had older dogs to mimic proper eating, have learned which plants are natural purgatives, and supplement their diets with wild found foods. My concern is that, not knowing the POSSIBLE risks, someone takes their pet off kibble and without slow introduction to new feeding methods, COULD potentially cause great harm or death to their beloved pet.

Due to another of my former businesses, I have had many dogs come into my home. I took pretty much every one of them straight off of kibble and put each one on raw meat and bones, chicken in my case because it is the least expensive. Not one of those dogs ever had a problem figuring out how to eat the meat and bones. Their 1000s year old instinct told them exactly what needed to be done. Just like a female animal does not need to be told how to give birth, how to remove the birth sac, or how to clean her newborns, etc., again because it is part of her instinct, I have found the same to be true for dogs eating raw meat and bones. The only thing I saw very occasionally was that the dog swallowed too big of a piece because they were so excited and eager about it. But in those rare cases they simply regurgitated the piece, chewed it into smaller pieces, and swallowed again. What was interesting to me also is that they never got diarrhea from the sudden change. This, and the fact that the stool of dogs who eat raw meat is so much smaller because they are able to digest the meat so well, and also the fact that the stool disintegrates very quickly into a crumbly powder and goes back to the earth, all without attracting all sorts of flies like the huge mounds of kibble-fed dogs stools do, also tells me that dogs are meant to eat raw meat and bones.
Another thing of interest is that the few bones that come back out in smaller pieces still undigested, keep the dogs' anal glands expressed on the way out, thereby making sure that the dog never has impacted anal gland issues. It's beautiful how nature has it all figured out which is why I try to practice biomimicry as much as possible.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:The reason I harp on this is it can become a serious health issue, not only for the dogs, but potentially for the humans; especially with parasite transfer to the very young, older, or health compromised. Although I am not employed at a vet clinic, I spend, on average, 10 hours a week there (I take in broken, high medical care animals); and I see the results of these feeding methods, literally every time I'm there - and I watch their owners wrestle with paying to treat their pets, and euthanasia, as they simply cannot afford treatment. Most of us permies are NOT flush with cash. So please, take ALL risks into consideration, before opting for these cheaper/more natural feeding methods.

All those dogs I have fed raw over the last 20+ years lived in my home along with my children, all of whom had chores that included feeding the dogs. They all fed them the raw chicken meats and bones along with the gizzards, not wearing gloves, just washing their hands afterwards with regular home-made soap. Not one of us ever got sick or had a problem because of it.
As far as the vets, my vet once told me that if all her clients' animals were as healthy as mine, she would be out of business. The only reason I basically ever bring any of my dogs (or cat before he died of old age) to the vet is for the rabies booster that is required by law or for the very rare freak injury that has come up over the last 20+ years, of which there have been three. I have never been to the vet with any of my dogs due to anything to do with the fact that they eat raw meat and bones (alternated with sweet potato meals, but never together in the same meal). In fact, I am sure that one of the reasons I hardly ever go to the vet is precisely because of the fact that my dogs eat what they eat.

    ____________


I wasn't going to reply to this post at all because I have learned over the many years that one typically does not change someone's mind about this type of thing. That is fine, and it is not what I am trying to do with my reply. I decided to post because I don't want someone who is unsure about whether to feed their dog raw or not to read your post and not read a rebuttal to the various parts of misinformation. There were just too many things written that were completely counter to all the experience I have had in the world of dogs, and the world of feeding dogs raw meat and bones. In fact, the first dog I was introduced to who was fed raw, was when I was a child. She was the dog of one of my best friend's family, so I knew her very well. She was a beautiful German Shepherd dog who lived to be 16 years old. Her whole life she was fed nothing but raw meat and bones. Not only was she fed the raw, but her owner, who was a scientist, actually let it start to turn a bit, so that it smelled rather unpleasant, explaining that the bacteria that caused that smell, also helped the dog digest the meat more efficiently. I learned a lot from that man, including what it is to have a well trained dog, how much freedom a well trained dog enjoys, and the amazing relationship good training fosters between owner and dog... but that's a whole nother subject.

May your dog live a long, healthy, and happy life.

I have no intention of arguing or disputing the above poster; only to explain my own.

The mention of gut eating is supported by a comment, IN this thread, and in the action of wild canids. There are always exceptions to the rule.

Vet costs and deworming is based on where I live, Canada, where we cannot access drugs like Fenbendazole (note: this actually does NOT treat tape, but roundworms and such) antibiotics, vaccines etc. without a vet visit and a prescription and/or medication purchased directly from the vet, or administered by the vet. A dog with tapeworm is prescribed a Drontal pill(s), based on weight - for a large breed dog it would be $50-$100.

Meds like Drontal, Revolution, Bravecto (flea and tick) or even Ivermectin are ALL prescription here and require a $75 vet consult, at least annually, as they must do a wellness exam before they can legally dispense the meds. This single, annual visit will allow you to purchase many meds, an additional cost, every three months, FROM the vet. Revolution, here will cost you $50-$75 for three vials; that is three doses or three months for a single dog.

The only dewormer available over the counter is pyrantel palmoate (Strongid-T). I can reliably deworm for roundworms with that; it may do hooks, to a certain degree, but is not great.

As to eating bones or raw, and the contraction/treatment of parasites; again, this is MY experience, spending countless hours at the vets getting treatment for wildlife, where I am in the back dealing with said wildlife. I overhear countless cases, and see the multitudes of dogs brought in for these issues.

Of course there are always exceptions, and perhaps what I see ARE exceptions, but I truly can't remember one visit (I'm there probably ten hours a week) where there was NOT a dog in being treated for one of the above issues.

Yes, I am in a more urban zone, more of these animals would be house pets, than farm dogs...but my experience stands - these ARE RISKS. I cannot quantify said risks, but with the cost of vet visits and medications, (at least where I reside), they are important, IMO, to factor in when looking at raw or homemade as a less expensive alternative. Especially when ingredients are not sourced or intentionally produced, on site, for one's pets to consume, where there is complete control of the food chain.

These are my, personal, experiences, over the last 25 years...undoubtedly, others have had different experiences.

I have to agree with Lorinne about vet costs; even the seemingly simple visits are very expensive, and meds are usually about a half of that (or less). I wish there was a healthier and more environmentally friendly way of dealing with worms in animals; maybe like in organic farming, where (at least here) the animals are expected to deworm themselves by having access to herbs, so they're always tested if they have worms at all, before being given any drugs.

My dog recently ate poop left by some wild animal; probably a marten or a hedgehog. I told my vet about it during a visit (for another reason) and he said that the dog needs to be dewormed in two weeks.
Generally, wildlife is welcome in my garden and I don't want to be deworming everything all the time... I especially don't want to "deworm" my compost pile.

My dog eats dry food mostly, but sometimes I give him scraps of meat when I'm cooking it. It's usually tiny bits of raw something, without salt or spices. I could give him more, maybe a half of his diet could be raw or cooked meat and other animal products (such as bones, heads, skin, paws, etc) but I know that I'll never get rid of dry food completely, so I don't know how to balance this and does it make sense at all.
I could probably switch to canned food if that's any better.

Biggest issues with raw feeding comes from those that don't do it right.  Tossing a chicken breast or steak to your dog is not going to give them the nutrition they need and can cause all sorts of problems.  If it's not done right it can be considerably more harmful than any kibble, even the cheap crap from China.

A raw fed dog needs bones in addition to meat.  They also need offal.  But the ratios are important too.  Too much offal and they'll get diarrhea.  Too little and they won't get the nutrition required.  Too much bone can impact their gut, too little and they have other problems.  

Green tripe is vital for dogs being fed raw.  But they don't need much of it.  Grocery store tripe isn't the same and is pointless to give a dog.  They need the digestive enzymes and bacteria from the green tripe.

Brains and eyeballs make a huge difference to raw fed dogs.  But, again, balance is required.  We feed our dog chicken heads.  Unfortunately he doesn't like tuna heads.

Chicken or rabbit is a great source of food, but it can't be all the food.  They need variety, and especially need at least some red meat.

Fat is, as mentioned by others, something commonly overfed by people that don't understand raw feeding.  It will make your dog sick if they get too much dietary fat.  

I have been trying different things over the last two years to work towards not buying feed for any of my animals. Needless to say I have way less animals now and I truly understand culling in the fall now. But what about dogs..... I can’t just cull my dogs off in the fall, so I make them “Rice N Tup gravy” 4 cups of rice and left over whatever is stick to the bottom of the skillet mixed with a cup or two a water, mix and poor it over the rice.

That feeds
1 grate Pyrenees
2 German Shorthaired pointers
1 Brittany
1 Chihuahua
As well as our human share of rice for dinner that night. 3 humans

These dogs are outside and free 24/7, 365
They all run a minimum of 4 miles a day.
They hunt as a pack and protect our lands and our farm animals no problem. I would not call them skinny by any means.

Also i would like to add that I’m kind of lazy sometimes. So we have it worked out with a local restaurant in town that they dump all the left over food into a 5gl bucket for what used to be our pig buckets, but since the hog is now in the freezer we just give the dogs the buckets. They started getting fat. One 5gl bucket full of hamburgers, french fries, baked potatoes, hush puppies, whole pans of leftover lasagna, pie, gravy..... my friend walked right up to our front door past ALL of my ferocious beasties who were asleep from the 5Gl scrap food challenge they love to take part it. Not one of those dogs barked. Freeloaders! 😂

The thing about dogs is that they have a short digestive tract. What goes in comes out very quickly. So if they eat things that are no good for them it doesn't spend long enough inside them to make a problem.
In the same way, chickens blood temperature which is above 40°c 105°f kills the bugs that we have to run a temperature to kill.
Food is food. You'll soon see if your dog/ chicken/ elephant is processing it well.

Rus Williams wrote:The thing about dogs is that they have a short digestive tract. What goes in comes out very quickly. So if they eat things that are no good for them it doesn't spend long enough inside them to make a problem.
In the same way, chickens blood temperature which is above 40°c 105°f kills the bugs that we have to run a temperature to kill.
Food is food. You'll soon see if your dog/ chicken/ elephant is processing it well.

I must not have seen this when it was first posted.  I'm going to object to especially the bolded statement.  Dogs absolutely can be harmed by the wrong foods.  Even from a single meal.  Too much fat can cause pancreatitis, and in extreme cases a single meal of excessive fat content can even kill a dog.  More commonly, feeding them something they can't really tolerate but in small doses over a longer period of time will impact their health and wellbeing.  Depending on the specifics that longer period could be days or months.  

Many, many years ago we fed our dogs store bought kibble.  Mid-2000's you might remember the melamine scandal where China was putting melamine into baby formula and dog food to boost the apparent protein content.  I don't think the baby formula was ever exported to the USA, but the dog food was.  We're not certain, but we think we got some kibble that was contaminated by melamine.  Both dogs had sudden, explosive, bloody diarrhea.  While we aren't 100% sure it was melamine, after some expensive vet visits we did switch them to a higher end kibble that had no inputs from Chinese suppliers.  Never had that same problem again.

***. Please do not take this as a judgment or attack; i get it, my friend rescued several street dogs from Grenada - hers would thrive on hunting and scraps, as they and their ancestors had been doing so for generations. But that is simply not the case for the majority of dogs; ask any vet hospital, number one reason dogs cost owners money is because they got in the garbage, found a carcass, or otherwise ingested something that made them sick.

I have grave concerns about allowing dogs to hunt for food, or be fed table/restaurant scraps, and frankly rice and "tup gravy" sounds completely lacking in nutrition. For those who have found success with this and feel it is working for your dogs, I have to highly caution others that this is an exception and would absolutely NOT suggest or recommend these methods for North American dogs who have not grown up scavenging - unless you want vet bills.

Hunting for food has huge potential to lead to hunting farmstock (perhaps not yours, but a neighbors?), and in most places it is illegal for dogs to harass, chase, injure or hunt wildlife (on their own without a hunter/human with them). If the dogs are free range hunting, even if just for rodents, we can't avoid addressing the issues of parasites, worms etc that are very pricey to deal with and can infect YOU, or your livestock, as well as impact the health and well being of the dogs.

Feeding highly processed, high fat restaurant scraps is most often asking for a multitude of health issues, in MOST dogs. As previously mentioned, conditions like pancreatitis, which can easily be fatal (can be caused by a single high fat meal) and pricey to treat. Plus, one cannot discount the effect of such an unbalanced, high calorie diet has on vital organs like the liver or heart.

Rice and gravy, while it may be flavorful, is sadly lacking in balanced nutrition.

I simply MUST caution that while these methods may be successful, in some cases, for most they would result in poor nutrition, and high vet bills, if the dogs are going to be long lived.

And yes, there are ALWAYS exceptions, and yes, some dogs may well thrive on something that most could not tolerate, especially long term. Those that do are the lucky ones!  But those who do not will likely not live long healthful lives, or will end up incurring high vet bills. Again, I mean no disrespect, only to caution those who may not realize it is unusual for dogs to fare well on such a diet.