I used to post her pretty frequently, but it seems that the more projects I have taken on the less time I have for frequenting my favorite permaculture forums, not just with permies but pretty much across the board.
Anyway, I wanted to stop in and share a cool project that I am working on. The elevator version is, I'm a middle school teacher at a public school in the Detroit metro area, I was given an entirely new class with a pretty open curriculum and decided that I was going to teach the kids permaculture.
To do this I created a project that I titled, "The Settlement Design Project". The context of the project is for the students, ages 11 - 14, to design their own sustainable settlement using permaculture as their design system, and Sketchup to show and share their designs. I've taught this lesson to over 150 students over the past couple of semesters , and have gotten the process pretty streamlined at this point. The students select a location from google Earth, research the area, use Sketchup to create a 3D scale model of their settlement, then turn this model into a video presentation. I've found that it has been very easy to expand or contract the depth of this project and include other subjects based on the students interests and aptitude. Example, adding in a social studies component to research the cultures that have developed in the area they select. Using the scale Sketchup model and doing some math to "prove" how many people their settlement would support based on, available water, food system, energy systems, etc..
After hearing that I must share this from my upteenth permaculture friend I decided to give it a go and record everything to make it available to the people of the internet. But using my old PC for video screen captures and smart phone for recording instruction turned out to be a fail.
So I setup a kickstarter to see if I could raise some funds to get some proper recording equipment, and a computer that will actually be able to handle HQ video files. If this seems like something that you would like to support or share it would be much appreciated. All comments and questions welcome!
Ray Cover wrote: The Game Warden can inspect your freezer and if he finds parts for more deer than you had a filled and checked tag for the previous season you can be fined or worse.
I have heard something similar, but I think they would need just cause for that. Like if they caught you poaching, as in in the act of doing it or with an untagged animal, or someone reported it, even then they would need a warrant. I would think this would be hard to prove as well, for example, I have 3 deer in my freezer one I got, one my roommate got, and one his dad got. They are packaged and not labeled, except what cut it is, so how would one tell what animal they came from? Also how do they know if you filled your tag or not? I have bought far more tags than I have filled, and never had to report a filled tag. I'm not saying what you said is wrong because I have heard the exact same thing, it just seems improbable unless you are doing something illegal, and caught. Even then I think it would be a hard stretch to prove someone poached a deer that's already in the freezer. This of course is just my experience in my state. You are absolutely right about being required to tag any deer that is being transported, road kill or otherwise.
I have a friend who hit a deer with his van. Got out to check the damage and there were 2 dead deer, both had broken necks, but otherwise ok. One was standing directly behind the one he hit and the force of the impact drove one into the other killing both. He called the DNR to get a tag and the officer showed up, looked at the van and gave him 1 tag. He said wait there are 2 of them. The officer didn't believe him that he hit them both and refused to give him a second tag. My friend made a compelling case, they are both still warm and the same temp, if I didn't hit it where did it come from? This was off a very rural road with no other traffic to be seen. Officer shrugged his shoulders and said I'm only giving you one tag, got in his truck and left. My friend is very firm in his belief of using any animal you take the life of, and also an ex-marine and not very comfortable with breaking the law. He deliberated for a few then threw them both in the van, tore the tag in half and tagged them both. Not exactly legal but IMO the right thing to do.
For MI only
**Edit
Copy and paste 324.1602 Department or officer; prosecution; search without warrant; private property; definition; common carrier not liable; issuance of warrant; seizures; probable cause.
Sec. 1602.
"Whenever an officer appointed by the department has probable cause to believe that any of the statutes or laws mentioned in section 1601 have been or are being violated by any particular person, the officer has the power to search, without warrant, any boat, conveyance, vehicle, automobile, fish box, fish basket, game bag, game coat, or any other receptacle or place, except dwellings or dwelling houses, or within the curtilage of any dwelling house"
So it would appear they can search everywhere except in the dwelling and the immediate area around the dwelling, curtilage.
My parents had a problem with seaguls pooping all over their floating raft, well not so much the poop, but the fish bones that would be left and stepped on. My dad got a windsock/sail and hooked to a piece of conduit as a pole from the edge of the raft. The windsock looked like an eagle and worked really well, no seaguls the first year. In the spring of the 2nd year the string broke and the windsock was lost, the seaguls quickly reclaimed the spot. My dad went out and got another one, but this one was some crazy multi colored twisty thing, he replaced the string with some light chain and some fishing tackles and it's on about it's 4th year now. I would say it keeps the seagulls away 90% of the time or better. There seems to be one bird who isn't scared of the wind sock, but does seem to be scared of the BB gun for some reason. Not that my dad or I would ever shoot at a seagul, that's illegal here afterall, but shooting right next to it or as I like to say, "firing a warning shot off his bow" seems to work.
Monte Hines wrote: Always be prepared to release drill switch if you encounter large tree roots or rocks... (-: !!!
You sure aren't lying about that!!
I used a beefy drill like that to run wire through some joists and the SOB loved to randomly catch and slam my hands into the floor boards. When I was done it looked like I had been in a 15 round bare knuckle boxing match.
I like the ingenuity, it sort of looks like my buddies ice fishing auger but electric.
William James wrote:Traditional Mauy Thai kickboxing? Glue and glass could go a long way.
I just got an image of Jean-Claude Van Damme from "Kickboxer" in my head from that. I actually incorporate a little Mauy Thai in my MMA training, mostly low kicks and clinch work, elbows and high kick are too dangerous when your trying not to hurt your sparring partner. It turns out the hand wraps dipped in glass is actually a myth, there a few suggested origins, most of them center around outsiders watching it and not knowing what's going on, but seeing many cuts on the fighters, usually due to elbows. They do however use glass bottles to roll them against their shins, it deadens the nerves in the shin and strengthens the shin bone by causing micro fractures that heal stronger.
I listened to the podcast last night, and frankly I would have been a little pissed off at the situation. From what you described it seems like you were kind of called out in front of everyone for not signing up for a job. That places you in a very awkward position, you either cave to peer pressure and sign up against your will, ignore it and look like an ass, or voice your objection and possibly look like a bigger ass. IMO the person who outed you was out of line and proper etiquette would have been to nonchalantly pull you aside and discuss it one on one. So that's the first fault I see, shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you can't control what others will do so sometimes you just have to react.
The second thing I have trouble with is no one said anything to back you up? Like this lady called you out, everyone heard and there was nothing but crickets? Did any of the facilitators / teachers / leaders whatever you call them hear this? If so one of them really should have said something. I completely understand why someone would be reluctant to, I am a very non-confrontational person myself and will usually try to avoid one whenever possible, but when you are filling the role of a leader / facilitator sometimes you need to put your personal feelings aside and play the role of the hat you're wearing.
Something as simple as, "He's good, he has a bunch of other chores to do." or "I've got him doing all kinds of other stuff and he probably won't have time." Would have gone a long way to defuse the situation without making anyone look like an ass.
I don't want to come across like I am criticizing the leadership or whatever, I wasn't there so I couldn't observe it myself, it just seems like something very minor that could have been quickly dismissed, defused and cast aside.
I personally have had a bit of experience leading and organizing many events, more than I can count, some of them with hundreds of people and I know things are going to happen that weren't part of the plan. Sometimes chairmen aren't doing the right thing, or someone is confused about what they are doing, or one committee member is arguing with another about something that doesn't matter. In those instances you need someone who is going to step up, say something, settle the argument, or make the call.
Inevitably someone will protest this call, and the leader must stay calm and strong. One that always worked for me, "I made the call it's on me. If it fails or falls apart I take the blame. If you are still pissed later, we can go find somewhere private and you can chew me out until you're satisfied, but for now this is what I need you to do." Very rarely did someone take me up on the chewing me out part.
I guess the moral of my rant here is things seldom go as smoothly as planned and that's why quick, decisive, and strong leadership is so invaluable. Much like you do here as the moderator Paul. When there is editing or a dispute you step in, take responsibility and blame for edits or deletions, even if you didn't do it. It says a lot about the moral fiber, and leadership qualities of an individual who is willing to shoulder the burden for the betterment of the group. Sometimes a little thing can be far more irritating than something much larger. I would do your best to let it go, and remember your still our favorite, overall wearing, pie eating, foul mouthed giant and we wouldn't have it any other way.
As always this is just my sometimes humble opinion.
I think this thread has the potential to be one of the most epic threads in the permies repository. Screw setting the bar high, I say make it an epic quest!
First I think a title change might spice it up a bit maybe, "The Legend of Kelda"
Next, I think we need to form what you're looking for more into a quest. Don't ask me why but dude's like quests.
So sticking with the Zelda theme here...
The quest begins as the fairy Navi (character TBD) awakens our hero from a nightmare, in which he witnesses a stormy night where a man in black armor on horseback Monsanto chases after a girl on a white horse. Navi brings our hero to the guardian of his village, the Great Redwood Tree who is cursed and near death. Our hero breaks the curse, but cannot stop the tree from withering. The Redwood Tree tells our hero a "wicked man of the desert" Monsanto has cursed him and seeks to conquer the land of Pugent Sound and that our hero must stop him. Before dying, the Great Redwood Tree gives our hero the spiritual stone of the forest, thus proving his good standing with his community and family , and sends him to Pugent Sound Castle to speak with the "princess of destiny."
At Pungent Sound Castle, our hero meets Princess Kelda, who has been having dreams about the future of pungent sound and foresaw our hero's arrival. She believes Ganondorf Monsanto, the King of Thieves and Poison, is seeking the Triforce, a holy relic in the Sacred Realm that gives its holder god-like power. Kelda's description of Ganondorf Monsanto matches that of the man who killed the Great Redwood Tree, as well as the man from our hero's nightmare. Kelda asks our hero to obtain the three Spiritual Stones, as she requires her suitor to be one with a strong spiritual foundation . Once they are in his possession our hero may then enter the Sacred Realm and claim the Triforce before Ganondorf Monsanto reaches it.
End of Act 1
So there we go, roughed out at bit.
So far so good I think, but we do need to flesh out the cast of characters a little, any ideas for who can play Navi, our hero's faithful fairy guide? It seems amongst the group we have a rather broad cast of characters, but I'm not going to be the one to name someone as the fairy . I'm thinking Paul would be a great giant, because he's a friggin giant. Ernie and Erica might be great Gorons, as keepers of the fire.
Oh and if kids called you Zelda to tease you as a kid and this just brought up some awful, tragic, and horrible memories I apologize, that was not my intent. I was going for more light hearted and funny.
There are probably as many green building techniques as there are green builders. Concrete is definitely not necessary for all of them there's cob, rammed earth, log homes, Wofati, tires, stone, and many more that I don't know about. Really depends on what you have, and what your goals are.
Now that being said I built a large hugelberm right next to my deck off the back, South, side of my house. I left the wood about 1' from the foundation and buried it with a good amount of dirt. I did leave a space between the berm and the foundation so it's not right next to the wall but is pretty damn close. I currently have no problems with termites or carpenter ants, so if I all of the sudden get a problem then the hugelberm might be the cause.
I guess since I already did it, I'll be the guinea pig and report back my findings.
One other thing that might be a consideration is the PH of the soil. I remember hearing from Mollison on is PDC DVD that most desert soils are alkaline. In alkaline soils certain nutrients can become locked up and not be able to be absorbed, Mag and Zinc happen to be two big one's. So perhaps it's not that there is a defficency in Zinc, but because of the soil PH the Zinc is locked up in a non usable form. Might be worth a check, if for nothing else then you know what the PH of the soils is.
Interesting side note:
In this part of the DVD Mollison also mentions a noted corelation between alakine soils and the sex of animals born and raised on the land. Appearantly where there is high alkaline soil there are more likely to be females born, be it goats, camels, or humans. He gave some specific examples of regions and population samples, though I can't recall them exactly, and in some areas it is 10:1 females to males. I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I just watched this section last weekend and it's fresh in the brain.
I think it might be best to stick to the discussion of Trespassing and stay away from whether or not it's right or legal to shoot trespassers. It just seems that has way to much potential to devolve a good conversation on constructive ideas into an argument that will go now where good. I'd like to think that no one at permies would take the, "Shoot first, ask questions never." approach, and that the signs that warn of gunfire are there purely as a deterrent.
What level is that class? High School, Com. college, University, Grad School
How much time do you have?
What is the specific assignment? Paper, Project, presentation, speech,
Ideas that could work at any levels:
Compare and contrast of plants grown in a poly culture vs. monoculture.
Benefits of no till approach.
Exploring the relationship between mycelium network and plant health.
Effects of biodiversity, or lack there of, on the ecosystem.
Mimicking natural succession through support species and chop and drop.
Permaculture is such a huge topic that you really have the information for breadth or depth of whatever you choose to pursue.
Oh and there would only be a rabbit, possibly with liter, or a pigeon coup, or some quail in each paddock. I wouldn't try to have them all in there at once, but I would like the paddock to be usable for all three.
I was thinking one rabbit per paddock, maybe moving the babies to their own after they are weened. For moving the pigeons I was thinking I could get out there before they woke up and slide a cover or board over their enter / exit hole then pick up and move the whole unit. The pigeon house is 2'x2'x3' in the picture, so managable with one person. As far as moving the quail, I have no idea. I am planning on getting them mostly as egg layers in the garage then had the after thought of maybe doing a couple meat bird runs a year with them. I could maybe setup the paddock next to them, open the gate and chase them into the new one. I figured I'd burn that bridge when I came to it.
I have been working and reworking an idea for a paddock shift system to raise rabbits, pigeons, and quail in. I am currently raising rabbits in wire cages in the garage, and will be adding quail in about a month or so. Eventually I would like to create a setup that would let me raise them outside during the warmer months. Basically I'm looking for some outside input as to what could go wrong, or right. Good idea, bad idea, crazy idea whatever, all comments are welcome.
The jist of it:
I have a 50'x300' suburban lot. Older sub no HOA, thank god, dead end road.
Neighbor is awesome, old retired southerner who loves eating rabbit and quail.
The back 50'x150' will be a food forest once complete.
The food forest will consist of ~30 100sq ft paddocks surrounded by hugelkulture beds planted with all kinds of stuff.
The paddocks will be planted with forage for the animals, the hugelbeds will be planted with forage for me.
The paddocks will be arranged like a honey comb with the gate from one, leading to the next.
Each paddock will have a wire fence around it, either chain link or welded wire, about 4' high.
Each paddock will have a water line ran to it so I can automate the water supply.
An underground rabbit den will be located in each paddock, they will be blocked off when rabbits arn't in there.
Each paddock will have a pipe set underground in the center so that a pigeon cote on an pole can be placed in it, or just a pole.
When housing pigeons or quail, maybe rabbits also, I will throw a large net over top and clip it to the top of the fence with something.
I am hoping the center pole will act like a tent pole and hold the netting up, if needed I can use multiple poles to hold the net up.[/li]
Why an overhead net?
A couple of reasons really:
1) I don't want pigeon shit all over everything.
2) I want to keep my neighbors in the happy zone, and don't know how happy he would be with pigeons landing and pooping on his stuff.
3) I can throw a football from my backyard and hit a restraunts dumpster, I'd really rather my pigeons weren't "free ranging" in garbage.
4) Help deter predators*
* As far as predators go I am pretty lucky here. In 3 years I have not seen any except a neighbors cat, my dog almost caught it and it hasn't been back since. I have never seen a raccoon here or an opossum, not saying there not here but I set my trash out on the back porch routinely when I don't want to walk to the trash can and I have never had anything get in it. There are occasional hawks that fly overhead.
As far as managment of this system goes... well that's a whole 'nother post. Here are some quick pics to help give an idea of what I am describing. The sketchup one I drew, the guy in the pic is 5'8" for scale. The other is from a PDF on underground rabbit housing, basically taking this idea but instead of a pipe leading to a cage, it leads to the paddock.
Tyler Ludens wrote: Eating meat regularly (not "every few weeks") seems to have enabled us to develop our large brains.
Not disagreeing with you, as that is the conventional theory, but it's interesting to note that we don't see that in any other predators. Large cats, wolves, bears, and even other primates eat large amounts of meat and don't have the large brains that we do. I don't want to hijack this thread but if you have an extra minute check out this video:
Joe Rogan (yeah the fear factor dude) talks about Terrence McKenna's theory on brain development.
This is a rather out there theory, but non the less it raises some interesting questions. Oh and Joe Rogan swears rather casually if that bothers you, he is actually very intelligent and well read on many subjects as suprising as that is.
I'm interested in this also. While designing my food forest I am trying to create as many ~100 sq ft paddocks as possible, current design has 16. In those paddocks I plan to raise rabbits, pigeons, and possibly quail. I am going to secure a pipe in the ground in the middle of the paddock and make the pigeon cote movable so I can take it from one paddock to the next. To keep the pigeons in and the predators out I am planning on draping a net over the paddock. The pigeon cote will be in the center and hold the net up like a tent pole, if necessary I will place a few more poles surrounding the cote to keep the net elevated. Each paddock will be enclosed with 4' tall chain link fence, I will attach the net to the top of the fence line with clips so the net and cote can be easily moved from paddock to paddock. I would free range them but, I really don't want pigeon shit everywhere or to piss of my neighbors, or to let them forage in the restaurants trash that's near my house.
paul wheaton wrote: First, I wanna say that I think this is a hot topic for a lot of people and I think that this whole discussion has turned out far smoother than it probably has on other forums. I'm a proud evil emperor.
Totally agree with this!
Kudos to everyone for keeping this a civil discussion / debate.
paul wheaton wrote: I would have liked it better if we could disagree with an outside article and not take a baseball bat to that person.
...But...But.... **sigh** *slowly drags baseball bat back to garage and puts it away with a heavy heart, then a slow smile draws across his face as he remembers...*
Abe Connally wrote:depending on your system for the tilapia, you could grow algae on purpose with the manure, and even with the worm tea. Algae is pretty easy to grow, just keep the water warm, full of light, and get some nutrients in there. I do it on accident all the time!
I did the same thing last year in my pool. I would over feed every 1 -2 weeks to get an algea bloom, then not feed until the algea got under control.
John Seay wrote:I think it's important to note that our population is too high to provide any sustainable food to everyone.
We don't know that for sure. According to Geoff Lawton permaculture systems can be 5-20x more productive than modern agriculture. So if modern Ag can keep most of us fed now, there's no reason to think permaculture couldn't do better with less.
John Seay wrote: Also I think water is an important input to think about when deciding the most efficient means of producing food.
Good point, everything needs water or Blue Gold as I think it will be called in the future.
John Seay wrote: This whole debate is somewhat useless considering everyone here is at least alike enough to realize that our systems of living in the country are broken.
Agreed, but hey we learn something from these debates. I now know I can feed my Tilapia rabbit manure
Abe Connally wrote: a little of both. If you throw rabbit manure in water, algae will start growing almost immediately. But the tilapia will also eat the manure. Rabbit manure is actually very good food for a lot of other animals. We feed our rabbits some alfalfa, so the manure is rich in protein. You can use that to feed tilapia, chickens, ducks, pigs, earthworms, etc.
That's awesome!
I had the manure going into a worm bin and was feeding the worms to the Tilapia, now I can be less picky about getting some manure mixed in.
tel jetson wrote: really what I'm getting at here is that I think we're falling prey to a false dichotomy. there's no need to pick one or the other. the author of the NYT article appears to be guilty of this, let's not fall into the same trap.
Exactly!!
I think you both make valid points. It not so much this or that but an inefficent system as a whole is not sustainable not necessarily the individual parts of the system.
Aside:
Abe do the Tilapia eat the manure directly or is it used to grow algea for the Tilapia?
Just curious as I raise both and hadn't done that before.
I agree with that. If the author would have titled it, "The Myth of Sustainable (cheap comercially raised) Beef", it would be far more accurate IMO.
Depending on your source there was ~50M Bison in the US with no human inputs before that got ruined. Now we have replaced that with 92M head of cattle with metric tons of inputs.
It's similar to the BS alternative energy counter arguments that are thrown around. "Well there isn't enough [insert alt. energy source of your choice] to meet all of the energy needs we have now, so it's not a solution."
It's not as simple as substituting A for B. We need to substitute A for C,D,E,F,G..
, and sends him to Pugent Sound Castle to speak with the "princess of destiny."
