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Bit of support here please guys...

 
Mother Tree
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Someone's sounding a bit gloomy and unappreciated in his latest podcast.

 
steward
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I think what I am trying to say is that it is important to respect those that chip in. And it would be good if gratitude was a bit more substantial in the permaculture world.

I also am trying to express that when you give to others, people in the permaculture world tend to say that is of great value, but their actions say otherwise. And I would like to see this corrected.


 
paul wheaton
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And, I hope I am never so disrespectful to the people that ship in around here!
 
gardener
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I listened to the podcast last night, and frankly I would have been a little pissed off at the situation. From what you described it seems like you were kind of called out in front of everyone for not signing up for a job. That places you in a very awkward position, you either cave to peer pressure and sign up against your will, ignore it and look like an ass, or voice your objection and possibly look like a bigger ass. IMO the person who outed you was out of line and proper etiquette would have been to nonchalantly pull you aside and discuss it one on one. So that's the first fault I see, shouldn't have happened in the first place, but you can't control what others will do so sometimes you just have to react.

The second thing I have trouble with is no one said anything to back you up? Like this lady called you out, everyone heard and there was nothing but crickets? Did any of the facilitators / teachers / leaders whatever you call them hear this? If so one of them really should have said something. I completely understand why someone would be reluctant to, I am a very non-confrontational person myself and will usually try to avoid one whenever possible, but when you are filling the role of a leader / facilitator sometimes you need to put your personal feelings aside and play the role of the hat you're wearing.

Something as simple as, "He's good, he has a bunch of other chores to do." or "I've got him doing all kinds of other stuff and he probably won't have time." Would have gone a long way to defuse the situation without making anyone look like an ass.

I don't want to come across like I am criticizing the leadership or whatever, I wasn't there so I couldn't observe it myself, it just seems like something very minor that could have been quickly dismissed, defused and cast aside.

I personally have had a bit of experience leading and organizing many events, more than I can count, some of them with hundreds of people and I know things are going to happen that weren't part of the plan. Sometimes chairmen aren't doing the right thing, or someone is confused about what they are doing, or one committee member is arguing with another about something that doesn't matter. In those instances you need someone who is going to step up, say something, settle the argument, or make the call.

Inevitably someone will protest this call, and the leader must stay calm and strong. One that always worked for me, "I made the call it's on me. If it fails or falls apart I take the blame. If you are still pissed later, we can go find somewhere private and you can chew me out until you're satisfied, but for now this is what I need you to do." Very rarely did someone take me up on the chewing me out part.

I guess the moral of my rant here is things seldom go as smoothly as planned and that's why quick, decisive, and strong leadership is so invaluable. Much like you do here as the moderator Paul. When there is editing or a dispute you step in, take responsibility and blame for edits or deletions, even if you didn't do it. It says a lot about the moral fiber, and leadership qualities of an individual who is willing to shoulder the burden for the betterment of the group. Sometimes a little thing can be far more irritating than something much larger. I would do your best to let it go, and remember your still our favorite, overall wearing, pie eating, foul mouthed giant and we wouldn't have it any other way.

As always this is just my sometimes humble opinion.
 
Brad Davies
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paul wheaton wrote:And, I hope I am never so disrespectful to the people that ship in around here!



What do you mean, like imports?


I kid, I kid......
 
steward
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Yeah, what Brad said. It seemed like a weird combination of overly pushy and totally wimpy.
Just to expand and explain something in Brad's post, in case anyone gets the wrong idea: mods don't ever actually edit member's posts.
Very rarely we may ask the member to edit their own stuff to make it fit within Paul's comfort zone.
 
steward
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for what it's worth, I don't know that taking cues from "the corporate world" is going to get much traction with the sort of folks who talk in terms of peace and rainbows. even if those folks are being compensated for their peace and rainbows.
 
pollinator
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Brad Davies wrote:The second thing I have trouble with is no one said anything to back you up? Like this lady called you out, everyone heard and there was nothing but crickets? Did any of the facilitators / teachers / leaders whatever you call them hear this? If so one of them really should have said something.



Personally that would be the thing that would put the question mark in my head.

It also sounds a lot like my office - bums me out that it won't be any different in permie world.
 
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Props for keeping your cool and not letting the rest of the day go to Shinola. Much bigger man than I am for sure. I'm fairly confrontational to begin with, not to be just a jerk, but I can't let people get away with things that I think pull down everyone else. I try to handle things in private but when someone calls me out I would have I would have come down with the might of the ancients behind me. It's gotten me in trouble before but I've learned to stick up for myself and especially my team when someone does something like that. Just like family, we can talk trash about each other all day long but heaven help the outsider who tries it.
 
Posts: 145
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LOL Okay so gotta admit not a pod cast people here.. But hey it was Bill and Paul.We love Bill and all the Schneiders family....The topic is a good one just as a life lesson in human nature...

gotta admit having stepped down to being a 2 dolla hoe and loving it..

No more having to put out a credential list,, no more pressures ,,,no more connections to what others do,, etc...In today's world it is quite interesting that if we do not list credentials nor charge a fee,,, people are never sure if we have a clue what the heck we are talking about.We simply tell them we both grew up on the farm,, Which we did......We also teach in a very ummmm relaxed way,, wine and good humor makes it even better......We do open house classes and teach when asked if the schedule fits.As well as donate plants and produce to many.....For us, however, we do this for a tribute to our sons memorial garden......Our goal is to get people to try the basics with a higher success rate so they will venture in deeper into the self sustainable avenues.....We like you, Paul have learned to bite our tongue and even offer suggestions that are not ones we approve of but that others may wish to use...It is not our deal to criticize..

People do not always understand the value of what we share in knowledge,time nor physical action versus the monetary aspect which we are not after..Warm fuzzies are what we enjoy as the reward..Ask Bill , James likes to use those words..Unfortunately this is the world of human nature and personal ethics in today's world.The financial aspect in the world has become such a judgement area for so many that appreciation , respect and gratitude have been shot out of the water...When people get on me I tend to say hey,, My son shot himself a couple of years ago when you have a life changing event like that you learn very quickly to appreciate everything and everyone at a much deeper level... ..

We were so sorry that we were not able to get down to meet you or as we had hoped get both you and Bill down to hit the Pizza oven for a night of good food,drink and conversation..We had several invites down to the site for Saturday evening which we did not make,, even though we had our potluck of habenero fudge brownies topped with huckleberry..We sat down and decided that as much as we would of enjoyed walking through the site and meeting you as well as letting Bill know how much we enjoy him sharing the excitement from the experience..That after getting home from Charlo and St Ignatius picking up supplies for over at the barn we just wanted to kick back and be anti social..LOL The previous weekend was spent teaching at a preparedness fair..
Mary and James
Of the
Happy house
from down the road from where you stayed
The big black truck going by the yard
over to the barn to work every day.
We did wave,
but did not want to disturb any of you while you were hanging out.




 
paul wheaton
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Mary,

I thought we were gonna meet you guys at some point. And then the days buzzed by and yesterday morning I found myself scrambling to get packed.

I think Bill drove me by your place once. With all the rocks? And the deer bones in the santa outfit?
 
Mary James
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Paul,
Bill ,definitely drove you buy the house..
The deer skeleton is what we try and tell people to use for keeping deer out of the gardens,They think we are all crazy..Well we are kind of sick humored I guess
,LOL yes and lots of rock we have rock addictions here,, micro climates and less work like house painting ...
Time just goes by very quickly,,Sometime when your up this way,,,,drop a note and come have dinner with us..
Mary
 
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