Tiller troubles

I am helping my sister start a garden.
She asked me to till it for her, using the machine her FIL gave here, so I did.
It 'bout whooped my butt!
Seriously, the tines were bouncing around while I manhandled it back and forth.
When was done with one row,  it looked like this:

For busting sod, I haven't had good luck with small tillers.  I have an area that I am going to till this weekend to start a very large (for me) corn and potato garden.  I'm paying a friend (well, paying with beer) to come till it with his tractor.  You probably need something industrial to tackle that sod.

William,

Does the tiller have a depth gauge/knife in the rear behind the tines?  I can’t tell from the picture, but you basically need these to tame the tiller while it is in action.  Back in my pre-Permies days when I owned a tiller, the depth spike was the only thing that kept the tiller under control.

And you are absolutely correct, those small tillers don’t look all that challenging, but they sure pack a punch on the back.

Eric

Thanks for your replies!

Me and my BIL went back and dug the row out by hand,  then ran the tiller through to bust up the clods.
It was still tough,  and I still wasn't happy with the work/outcome ratio, but the tooth was good.

I'll have to look for a depth control,  thank you!
That is exactly the kind of knowledge I was looking for.

I'm gonna give it another go.
I mostly want to use lasagna beds going forward,  but one must consider the what your "client " wants.
Besides, it's a tool we already own,  so I'm wanting master it.
In particular, soil-cement driveways are of interest to me.

Here is a photo of the machine and one of the "finished" bed.

William,

The tilled path looks a lot better.  That depth control helps to hold the tiller back as the tines run forwards (it is a front tine tiller correct?). My old tiller’s depth spike broke a bolt while I was using it and the spike was not held in place.  Without that spike, the tiller wanted to charge forward and only my arms, legs and back could hold it back.  Once I got a replacement bolt, the spike stayed in place and the tiller was much easier to control.

I couldn’t tell from your picture if you even had a depth spike and not having a spike will make really make the tiller hard to control—as in it wants to run away from you.  Once in a trench (which you dug) the tiller will get easier to control, but while trying to break ground, it will be an absolute bear to control.

BUT, tillers are not exactly easy to control on a good day, they take a surprisingly high amount of strength, dexterity and skill to manipulate.  Rear tine tillers are somewhat easier to control but don’t exactly till deeply.  Actually just using a tiller a few times made me appreciate no-till gardening.  I am still a little split on whether there is a role on using the tiller even once.  I mean they do break the surface which is hard enough on my clay, but as I now use woodchips extensively, the woodchips themselves do the tilling for me.

Hope this helps,

Eric

I wish my experience with woodchips mirrored yours.
I has a couple loads of chips put on my yarden.
It has decayed into a beautiful compost,  but when I dig down I come to the same hard layer of clay that was there when I had the chips dumped there.
In fact,  before doing my sisters garden I tried to till the woodchips into the clay over there.
The blamed thing skittered across the surface,  I never could get it to bite in, and I was a lot stronger back then.
I put the tiller under a tarp and left it there, literally for years.


Now,  if I can find/learn to use that depth controller, things might be different.
Mixing the chips into the soil is said to lock the up nitrogen , which would be great for me.
I hope to put an end to grass in my yarden,  and replace it with clover,  so a nitrogen starved clay mixed with microbiological  food could be pefect.

This may not help you, but in similar circumstances, I have broad forked material in more quickly and at a much greater depth than I was able to rototill it in, and that was with my Father's rear tine, heavy duty rototiller.  Broad forking is a fair amount of work, especially the first few times, but I still find it easier than fighting with a tiller.  As you said, you have to use what is available to you, but maybe that information will help someone else.

William,

Sounds like you hit a layer of pan.  Pan is some nasty stuff.  I have dug into pan before and it is some tough stuff.  I once tried to make a post hole that went through the stuff.  I just couldn’t get a Manuel post hole digger to go through the stuff.  It was like trying to dig through metal.  It was tough and slightly flexible, just enough to prevent the blade of the post hole digger from getting a bite.  Eventually I filled the hole up (about 10” deep by that point) w/ water, sat back, drank a beer with a friend and waited 2 hours for the water to soften the pan layer.  After 2 hours, I stuck in a narrow trenching shovel, it actually sank into the pan layer and I could pry it up after which I could hear the water going “glug, glug, glug” into the soil below.

William I don’t know if you can dig through the pan (or even have the inclination to do so), but breaking that pan layer may help a lot.

Eric

Trace,

I have no doubt broadforking is better to tilling, but as you point out, you use the tool you have.  And a good broadfork might well cost more than a cheap tiller.  I seem to remember my cheap tiller cost about $165, while a good broadfork (I am thinking about one from easydigging.com) costs just over $200.  

When I first started my current garden beds I fully intended to go no-till, double dug method.  I didn’t get far before my back said “No More!”  I got a tiller which finished the job but never gave me the results I was wanting.  I raked up and added in an enormous amount of fallen oak leaves, and I mean HUGE amounts.  I did till them in expecting the soil to loosen up, but tilling the leaves in just seemed to make them disappear.  To this day I don’t really know where they went, but I suspect they oxidized and essentially evaporated.  Knowing what I know today I would have just piled them on top and left them, but I insisted on tilling which was ultimately futile.  I am glad I sold the tiller, it actually made my life easier.

Eric

Holy cow, if it's an old Craftsman tiller with a 5HP engine and no drag spike, you're the better man!

Tiller-haters shouldn't write off Mantis tillers though. Completely different little beast. Love mine.

Ha! You know what they say,  every team needs an anchor...
Really,  what I've lost in strength over the years,  I've gained in, uh, let's just say mass.
Having such "gravitas" helps when it's time to hold something back.

The tiller really does have some power behind it,  which makes me want to master it all the more.
I even went looking for attachments, didn't find much.
I did find this video on using a tiller for digging holes or flattening a yard:
https://youtu.be/RGbYLL1BF-4

With older tillers, the front edge of the tines ends up rounded, so they don't cut worth a darn. Most originally had a simple skate edge (90 deg.) but it may be worthwhile to make that slightly more acute. Very light, quick passes with an angle ginder shouldn't significantly impact the overall temper of the tines.

That said, tillers commonly create a hardpan right under the till zone. It's important to use a sharp shovel, digging fork, or deep tine mechanical cultivator to break that up.

The permie no-dig/no-till experiments are interesting. I'm far from converted but will try a few odd corners for entertainment. If the results speak, I'm willing to listen.

I agree, a rototiller has value as a micro-excavator when changing the contour of the land. I have been using mine on our hilly property in an ongoing terracing project.

Run it uphill, hold it so it chews down, then pull it back.

It requires strength, heft, and the mindless tenacity of a bar fight. But for those of us who aren't 25 any more, it's ten times faster than a grub hoe.

Turns out my tiller was made by MTD.
The part I need is a MTD 04668 depth bar, MTD says it's not made anymore.
I'm not sure if any of the bars on eBay are the right one,  but they are pretty expensive.
I'll keep looking and I'm considering making one now that I know what it looks like.

Nice bed!

Unconventional sources for a tiller spike:
- local junkyard / scrap metal dealer/ dump
- Kijiji / Craigslist
- small engine mechanic shop (some of them keep parts machines out back)

Heck, if you know a welder, he can make one for you out of the stuff on his scrap pile. A six-pack has been known to solve all sorts of problems.

I agree with Douglas.

A depth spike is nothing special—just a piece of metal that helps to hold back the charging tiller.  It would probably be fairly easy to make your own from a piece of scrap metal.

I seem to remember that after I lost one of the bolts to the depth spike I just went out and bought another bolt from the hardware store, but this time with a nylon bushing to hold it in place during vibration—which the tiller does by design.

Basically I think a simple modification will work just fine.

Eric

I just had a thought about making a depth spike.  I would think that an old lawnmower blade could be fashioned into an excellent depth spike without too much effort.

Eric

Same problem. Can't find the safe one. Purchased troy bilt recently from the list. But the belt is heating up making it to tight so it's difficult to guide it. I do not let my wife working with it at all. I google and suddenly that's the common problem. Have no idea what to do with this. 500$ wasted

I second Douglas's suggestion, any welding shop should be able to put one together for you. Be sue to have the measurements, diagram,  .....and it wouldn't hurt to being the tiller as well.

William,

This is a month-late post.  I just missed this thread way back, but just let me say that I love your raised bed.  Long and narrow looks like what you can utilize in your space.  Also you did a nice job of keeping the edge level when your land was not.  I don’t know how much land you have but judging from the picture you have a little slice heaven there.  So did you run the tiller down the middle of the raised bed to loosen and move soil?

Very Nice!

Eric

Hey Eric, thanks for the atta boy!
I did use the tiller the loosen the soil before building the bed.
This spot is at my sisters place,  the covid pushed her from being a chef to being a gardener, and I was right there to cheer her on.
She is my big sister,  but I'm at least a foot taller so I tease her about her height.
In seriousness, her reach contributed to the design of the bed with.
I only build 4' wide beds for myself and that's a maximum.
We made some compromises by building with untreated lumber,  but it was mostly free or super cheap.

I hauled the materials on top of our minivan, but I'm planning to buy a cheap truck tomorrow.
Then nothing will stop me from raising beds all over this town!

William,

The untreated wood won’t last forever but who cares.  Even if it lasts a few seasons it will have done a fine job and rebuilding is not terribly difficult.

Personally I build 8’ wide beds simply because that is the size of dimensional lumber (actually 8’x16’) and being tall I can get a 4’ reach without too much difficulty.  I also sometimes put a steppingstone in the middle and stand on that.

But for a shorter woman, that sized bed is perfect.  There is a lot of room and it is easy to reach.

I like it.

Eric