Ideas for converting a vineyard to something more sustainable?

I have this typical vineyard on my downward sloping land: https://photos.app.goo.gl/s983hmU1tqiTZzWE6

(the slope is a whole set of challenges in itself, chronicled on my Hillside Gardener YouTube channel)

Any thoughts on how I could convert this to a more "permie" way of doing things?

It's four rows of random grape varieties strung up on your usual trellises. To be honest I am kind of sick of them:

- it's a lot of maintenance and pruning
- we don't use THAT many grapes
- they aren't the highest quality grapes and aren't good for wine or anything
- growing them by the classic method is not really a sustainable practice (though I don't spray them, so the harvest is frequently sub-par)

I have gradually replaced a few of the ones that died with kiwi and some blackberry (though they struggle in the poor soil and hot weather) but would like to come up with a permie kind of way of gradually replacing the whole setup with something more food-foresty.

P.S. I did read this thread but didn't come up with anything conclusive - does seem to be an issue others have struggled with though https://permies.com/t/47273/Permaculture-Vineyards

That would mean:

- trapping water on contour, which I do currently in other areas by banking up organic material (we are too steep for swales), but will be awkward to do here because it will bisect the rows and make them inaccessible!
- continuing to phase out poorly performing vines, but replanting other stuff, and doing so more along the lines of guilds rather than along the existing trellises
- getting rid of the trellises altogether eventually and growing things up other things - I would still keep some grapes.

I am just wondering if anyone has repurposed a vineyard in this way and has any ideas on how I might do it in a gradual way, or maybe I should bite the bullet and do it in one go...

While this doesn't address your questions, have you thought to do a "U Pick" once a year while you come up with better solutions?  I feel many folks do this in September.

That is the best permaculture solution I can think of.

Your vineyard looks well maintained to me.

I don't think the slope is too steep for a vineyard/orchard.

A possible use for the trellis is to support dwarf fruit trees.

Mulching along the rows would cut down the weeding problem/work and improve the quality of the grapes/berries/fruit. I'd suggest you use bulk mushroom compost unless you have the largest supply of home made compost known to mankind.

I hope you find a use for the grapes so they can be saved. I think the grapes would make some folks thrilled to ferment wine; no matter the variety.

Anne Miller wrote:While this doesn't address your questions, have you thought to do a "U Pick" once a year while you come up with better solutions?  I feel many folks do this in September.

That is the best permaculture solution I can think of.

Yeah, I mean I've thought about selling it or doing some kind of "U-pick" - there's not THAT much so I'd probably just find a single customer to come pick it all and pay me something. But to be honest the quality isn't good enough, the money would be a pittance, and I just don't need the money really, and again, I don't want the work, that's the thing. If you really want decent grapes you have to do a bit of work around them, pruning in winter, spraying, keeping them tidy in summer too, just a big hassle to be honest...

What kind of grapes are the vines?  Eating (Table) or Wine Grapes?

If the vines are producing poorly maybe the soil needs building.

If the problem is soil health then anything planted there might have a problem.  As mentioned with the kiwi and blackberries.

I like this suggestion:

John said, "Mulching along the rows would cut down the weeding problem/work and improve the quality of the grapes/berries/fruit. I'd suggest you use bulk mushroom compost unless you have the largest supply of home made compost

Wood chips are one of the best ways to build soil health.  And may help with your maintenance problems, too.

Growing mushrooms is good too.

If the grapes are growing well but are just not of the quality you want, it's feasible to graft a better variety onto the rootstock. In fact, if you have at least some grapes that you do like, then you could use them as the material to graft, and your cost would be minimal. A trellis is a pretty big investment and it's not good, that I know of, for much other than grapes.

The picture seems to show the rows are oriented vertically up and down the hillside - am I seeing that correctly?

The best Vines in Germany are planted in deep soil loamy/sandy rich in minerals
Grow nitrogen fixer in between and keep them short. Chop and drop.

Soil is a very important factor for good wines. Little differences and the outcome could change from good to bad.
In Germany we tend to grow vertically to the slope that the roots don't drown because they will not build retaining walls,
the soils can be easily penetrated by rain.

In a German Wine forum is a description of almost all good soils that produce famous wines. I translated it and hope it helps.

Wine types for which soil:
ALBARIZA ("WHITE EARTH")
soil wine
– Soil formed by kieselguhr, shells of fossil diatoms found in the Sherry area of ​​southern Spain.

ALLUVIUM
– highly fertile soil washed up by a primeval river. Often contains gravel, sand and silt (loamy sand).

BOULBÈNES
– fine, siliceous soil, slightly compacted and found in the Entre-Deux-Mers region of Bordeaux.

COLORED SANDSTONE
– Colorful, mostly red sandstone with clayey components. Formed from rock debris.

FLINT
– Pebble, which reflects and retains heat well. The Pouilly-Fumé wines of the Loire Valley are usually grown on soils characterized by flint, which gives them their typical "burnt" aroma profile.

GALESTRO
– blue-grey limestone slate found in the Tuscany region (especially in the Chianti Classico) of Italy.

PLASTER
– soil containing calcium sulphate formed by the evaporation of sea water. Gypsum makes a highly absorbent soil with average drainage ability. It is often mixed with clay and marl.

MICA
- Siliceous earth from fine, decomposed rock formations.

GNEIS
– medium- to coarse-grained metamorphites, which were formed from other rocks by transformation under high pressure and temperature. The name derives from the old German "Geneus" (deaf, solid rock between the ore veins).

GRANITE
soil wine

– consists of 40 to 60 percent quartz and 30 to 40 percent feldspar as well as small amounts of hornblende, mica and other minerals. This floor heats up quickly and retains heat well. Granite reduces the natural acidity in the berries. Ideal for acidic grapes. Important soil type in Alsace, Beaujolais and much of the northern Rhône.

GREYWACK
– Sedimentary soil formed by ancient rivers containing quartz, mudstone and feldspar. This soil can be found in South Africa and New Zealand as well as on the Ahr, on the Moselle, the Middle Rhine and in the Rheingau. Trivia: the Loreley rock near St. Goarshausen consists of greywacke.

CALMY SOIL
– alkaline soils with a high content of calcium and magnesium carbonate. Ensures cool temperatures in the ground. Stores water well, but also does not allow it to accumulate. Calcareous soils neutralize the natural acidity of the soil. The cool temperatures of the soil delay ripening in the grape and ensure good acidity. Limestone was formed as sedimentary rock in the sea by deposits of shells, for example ("shell limestone").

LIMESTONE
– Sediment-based soil composed of carbonates. The most common colored limestone found in the wine country is gray in color (except for white chalk). Water retention varies by composition, but limestone is consistently alkaline and is typically planted with high acid grapes.

GRAVEL
soil wine

– loose, siliceous soil with good water flow but comparatively poor fertility. Vines planted in this type of soil need to dig deep underground to find nutrients. Wines from vines on clay gravel beds have less acidity than those on limestone gravel beds. The Graves and Sauternes regions in Bordeaux consist mainly of gravelly soils.

PEBBLES
– Soils of acidic rocks that are crystalline. The pebbles can vary in size. The soil offers good heat retention but needs the additional composition of silt, clay and other sedimentary soils to maintain any type of water retention. Soils with smaller pebbles are often found in Bordeaux. Particularly large pebbles can be found on the southern Rhône

now you can check for your soil and compare.
I see many forests around so it seems that you are not really living in a wine area?

I personally have next to zero experience growing grapes (planted the first one last summer) but I seem to vaguely remember reading somewhere that someone observed that grapes grown next to, and climbing in, mulberry trees were healthier and more vigorous than others. Again, this is extremely vague, and I don't remember where I read it (could have been Plants For A Future, maybe) so very likely to not be 100% true. But, well, even if it's not true, mulberries are tasty.

As for turning the place more forest garden-ish, I guess just mulch the crap out of it and plant whatever you feel like eating in between the grapevines, preferably both trees, bushes and herbaceous plants. And maybe if you stop pruning the grapevines you don't like so much and let them go a bit feral, they could provide organic material for mulching (like you leave them until they threaten to smother something else, then whack them back and use the trimmings for mulch). Or char the trimmings, if you want biochar... Just random ideas.