Moving to new country and starting self-sufficient permaculture there for 15-20k $??

Hello.
I have a dream,,, and I wish to read your input about it... Basically..: I want to live in permaculture-place which produces all I need to eat, have some kind of shelter (like a broken trailer or w/e, until I make a cobb house or something else more permanent and cosy), then eventuella start selling excess food to afford things the permaculture doesn't provide (I dunno, like toilet-paper, tools and what not). Live relatively close to like a scrap-yard so I can get free material.. Learn which wild food there is around to forage, and so on..
Thing is I live in a very nordic country which is really not suited for this kind of living, atleast not for me.

I have housing and food free wherever I want in the world for 1 year ahead, and after that I will probably have around 15-20k $ to start off with. So my plan is, if it's decently possible, to learn TONS of stuff about permaculture, living with little money, how to buy land abroad, and everything else I need to know during the first months, then I suppose move to the country I've decided upon and continuing studying there and eventually buy a piece of land and get it rolling.

Is such a thing possible in such a little window- and moneyframe? I am young and healthy, and im very skilled at self-study and getting lots of stuff done with little money..

Erik

Welcome. Dreams are good. You certainly have the material resources to set off and get started. But there is huge work, long hours, even loss ahead, too. (What? I'm a fortune teller?!! Not hardly. This stuff happens to everybody anyway. <g>)

So. Are there any places or people that draw you? This "one year" thing is significant but if you don't have direct knowledge of the places you might want to settle it could be worth spending time visiting and learning in person, as opposed to putting _all_ your efforts into learning skills. As they say, it's not _what_ you know but _who_ you know. You can learn skills while settled in one place but you can't visit and see and learn different places and people while holding down a job or planting your piece of land. IOW, if you want to date some girls to learn a few things and see what's out there, do it before getting married - cuz it's not going to work real well _after_ you get married... Particular skills may not be as important as learning, experiencing, various people and places so you develop some feelings for what matters to you.



Rufus

I will be an adventure to be sure.

I wanted to add a comment about the scrap yard thing. You would probably have better luck getting stuff for free from individual people and selling what you don't want to the scrap yard. The scrap yard is there to make money from the scrap so they probably will not just let you have things for free if it is something they can sell (like scrap metal) and, for insurance reasons, probably won't let you dig around either as it would be a liability if you were to get hurt. Cleaning up junk for people for free or a small fee and selling what you don't want for scrap could ba a small source of income, though.

Keep in mind that, as you get your system established, there will more than likely be supplimental food that you will need. Also, will you have a vehicle (registration, insurance, maintenance and fuel costs). If you don't have a vehicle, you will have to hire someone to bring in the larger materials you will need.

Rufus Laggren wrote:Erik

Welcome. Dreams are good. You certainly have the material resources to set off and get started. But there is huge work, long hours, even loss ahead, too. (What? I'm a fortune teller?!! Not hardly. This stuff happens to everybody anyway. <g>)

So. Are there any places or people that draw you? This "one year" thing is significant but if you don't have direct knowledge of the places you might want to settle it could be worth spending time visiting and learning in person, as opposed to putting _all_ your efforts into learning skills. As they say, it's not _what_ you know but _who_ you know. You can learn skills while settled in one place but you can't visit and see and learn different places and people while holding down a job or planting your piece of land. IOW, if you want to date some girls to learn a few things and see what's out there, do it before getting married - cuz it's not going to work real well _after_ you get married... Particular skills may not be as important as learning, experiencing, various people and places so you develop some feelings for what matters to you.



Rufus

I think I'd get along well with asian people, or maybe new zealanders,, but I haven't got a real clue actually.. Just recently started getting into this ^^
I get what you mean with the importance of going and experiences places first-hand,, but because traveling here and there is so expensive, im thinking more in the lines of; studying the girls a lot from afar, spending lots of time to figure out which ones I think would be most suited, then taking the absolute top tier gurls out on a few well-selected dates before i decide.. But maybe we're on the same page about that

Jen Shrock wrote: About the scrap yard...

Oh, I'm sorry I used the wrong term.. Trash yard was what I meant.. like you know where people throw away stuff.

Jen Shrock wrote: Keep in mind that, as you get your system established, there will more than likely be supplimental food that you will need.

Ah yes,,; I don't wanna be starving until things start to pick off ^^

Jen Shrock wrote: Also, will you have a vehicle (registration, insurance, maintenance and fuel costs). If you don't have a vehicle, you will have to hire someone to bring in the larger materials you will need.

Mm,, transportation is a tricky one to solve with little money.. Having a good bike with some kind of "wagon" would probably almost be enough, atleast if I lived decently close to where I need to get to. Alternatively a moped instead of a bike. But a car will probably be needed for some things.. Easiest would be to have a friendly neighbor or someone for those (hopefully) rare times,, alternatively get a good deal on a used car --> own it until like the system has been quite established and I no longer need a car very much --> and then sell it and buy a moped


Thanks for the input.

In Indonesia you can long term rent a house with a small acreage for $600 pr. year - but as a foreigner you can't buy. In Thailand you can buy a house - it's a bit more expensive (don't know the prices).

In Spain you can buy a small piece of land for €30.000 on the coast, less if you are willing to move in land (with hotter summers and colder winters). You won't get planning permission on such a small piece of land though

Another option is finding a commune somewhere - if that is your thing - you can probably buy a part of the commune and they most likely have a food production already, and you get community from day one.

In Spain there is abandoned villages which people squat - there you can move in for free, and if you farm the land consecutively for 15 years it's yours (you do run the risk of being evicted if the owners find out before that though).

Because of the economic chrisis ( its not over folks ) I am sure you could buy a property with some acres in Spain or Greece Cash buyers are rare. Plus if you get some training as an English teacher you could supliment you income that way.

David

On the costas the amount of people who think they can supplement their income as English teachers is staggering And many Spanish people have not yet realized the full impact of the crisis - so finding land I. That pride range is not as easy as you'd think (inland is easier that the coast). I've seen people expect €100.000 for 1-2 acres (less than a hectare) with a nice horse stable on it, my friends are considering paying €30.000 for one acre without a house (and building one will not be possible if it's to be legal).

Generally, the closer to civilization you are, the more expensive land gets. Could you find someone that is willing to trade room and board for help on their property? Also, if you find the rare perfect moment, there has been mention on this site of a time or two in which someone was willing to take on someone in a working/mentorship relationship with the possibility of ultimately gifting their property to the right person. That is very, very rare, though.

Dawn Hoff wrote:In Indonesia you can long term rent a house with a small acreage for $600 pr. year - but as a foreigner you can't buy. In Thailand you can buy a house - it's a bit more expensive (don't know the prices).

It does feel like I am going to wanna own my little piece of land,, so that it doesn't get taken away from me once I've spent years putting my soul into it, and so people can't say as much about what I do there, and so I can sell it if when I wanna move on, and so on..
But on the other hand; it might be a very good inexpensive way to start off, and then buy land later on in life when I've got tons of experience.

Dawn Hoff wrote: In Spain you can buy a small piece of land for €30.000 on the coast, less if you are willing to move in land (with hotter summers and colder winters). You won't get planning permission on such a small piece of land though

All these permission & regulation-stuff is going to be very bothersome I feel.. Haha,, maybe I can drop out off society with it's regulations and claim it's a right to live freely as long as you're not a problem for anyone,, but I suppose I'd get detained or something within a week..

Dawn Hoff wrote: Another option is finding a commune somewhere - if that is your thing - you can probably buy a part of the commune and they most likely have a food production already, and you get community from day one..

THIS would simplify a project like this sooo much.. If this was my thing I'd have no doubts what-so-ever that I could succeed with a project like this.. But,, I've walked the lone-trail for far too long to set my aim on joining a commune in the near future, unless it's one in which I could live very isolated,, that'd be perfect..


Again; thanks a lot for the input, it helps.

It's not so much that you'd get arrested if you build without permission - more that if they find out they can fine you up to €30.000 and pull down your house

But putting up a caravan or a tiny home on wheels, or a Yurt is technically not building And land might be cheaper in Greece or inland Spain.

Haha yeah,, I hope I'll be able to get away with a lot that way..: Land too small to count as a farm,, house too little to count as a residence, and so on.

Why dont you go wwoofing for a while and look out for a place that way?

David

I will seriously second david's post above mine... Go WWOOFING for a bit. I know you are saying you would possibly not be able to afford the travel, etc. but you can't just buy a place somewhere and poof have a farm/life/income either. Go wwoofing, and seriously talk to your hosts about making money and surviving in these places, that may open doors to you that were unexpected, such as a possible buy in to an existing operation or at the very least getting some insider information on cheap land for sale. Agriculture can be done anywhere that you have the will to do it and the skills to pull it off, but earning a living is another consideration. Subsistence farming is fine and dandy until you break your ankle and can't work for a bit. I'm not trying to be condescending here, just realistic. Do your research, find the place where you think you want to go, then WWOOF there, at least that way you aren't wasting the travel money to get there since you would be travelling there anyhow and wwoofing will cost you far less than any other form of travel.

Remember sustainability has to incorporate economic viability as well, if you can't support yourself through the rough times then all will be for naught. Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of how to survive on a very small income, that is a valuable skill, but please keep in mind that you will need some way to keep going with a catastrophic crop failure, natural disaster or severe injury. Right now, for us, if something like that happened we would be forced to start selling equipment, BUT we have that equipment to sell to get us through. It's a poor plan, but it is a plan that will work in a worst case scenario.

Your adventure sounds very exciting though! Good luck and I wish you all the best!

David Livingston wrote:Why dont you go wwoofing for a while and look out for a place that way?

David

I most likely will, in due time, if it that far. It's probably just some months down the road. But right now and for the nearest months to come I don't think it'll be a very good idea though.

M Foti wrote: Do your research, find the place where you think you want to go, then WWOOF there, at least that way you aren't wasting the travel money to get there since you would be travelling there anyhow and wwoofing will cost you far less than any other form of travel.

Hear hear. Good permaculture sites would surely be super-evolving to live at.

M Foti wrote: Remember sustainability has to incorporate economic viability as well, if you can't support yourself through the rough times then all will be for naught. Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of how to survive on a very small income, that is a valuable skill, but please keep in mind that you will need some way to keep going with a catastrophic crop failure, natural disaster or severe injury. Right now, for us, if something like that happened we would be forced to start selling equipment, BUT we have that equipment to sell to get us through. It's a poor plan, but it is a plan that will work in a worst case scenario.

Yea.. I often underestimate how much moneyflow will be needed. I think: "So I'd have a like free lil' house, food and water that'll keep me healthy and which manage itself mostly, so what do I need money for after that?", but then I realise; "Oh right; housetax, landtax, toiletpaper (?), insurance or w/e, internet and computer-shit (no way im leaving internet behind), and so on and so on"

M Foti wrote: Your adventure sounds very exciting though! Good luck and I wish you all the best!

Too bad im not all too much about excitement then I'm more about what comes after; the mellow cruising. But thank you, some good luck will be needed Thank you for a high quality post.

Here is a list of abandoned villages in Andalucia in the south of Spain:
http://repoblacionpueblosabandonados.jimdo.com/andalucia/

Take a look at Portugal. Land in the centre is really cheap. You may be able to get some experience with a Dutch led group called Project Kamp, check their videos on YouTube. I have a channel called Plebs in Portugal which shows you roughly what to expect