Intelligent Gardener / Albrecht Mineral balancing

There were a few old threads on this but I'm hoping to revive this discussion and hear feedback from anyone who has been applying these methods.  

I'm in Western WA.  After permaculture sheet mulch gardening on our new property for the previous 5 years (with lots of manure from our animals and neighboring farms) my garden hit a wall last June.  Nothing was growing well.  I finally read those chapters in Steve Solomon's "Gardening West of the Cascades" that I had ignored because they didn't fit into my organic gardening brainwashed noggin.  Wow.  Everything started to make sense.  I realized that (before the wall was hit), I had been growing nice LOOKING veggies (excess potassium will do that) with lots of carbs but not a lot of protein/nutrient density.  As someone who is trying to grow most of our own food, that's not good.  And I now have a hard time trusting the health of organic food, right along up there with industrial/grocery store food.  

Anyway, I got supplies from Black Lake Organics (now BLOSSOM) up the road in Olympia and did some damage control with COF.   I do think I was able to save some things.  This year I started off on the right foot with my Logan Labs soil test and recommendations from James and Gary at BLOSSOM.  No shock that our soils are excessive in potassium and lacking in calcium, along with lots of trace minerals (Copper, Zinc, Boron, Manganese most notably).  My garden looked great this year, and I'm happy and feel like I'm on the right track.   Brassicas in particular, looked extremely healthy.  Solomon says they're an indicator species.  Anyway, I probably have several years to correctly balance things and try to leach out some of the excess potassium I've added.  Plus we have a huge property and I would like to start the daunting task of amending our pastures.  There's also all the perennials to consider - I did amend a portion of those this spring but many didn't get anything yet.  

One of the big questions that remains for me is how to marry the science around mineral amendments (ie. the cold hard reality that if the minerals aren't there, they won't be in your food) with a permaculture-ish approach to maintaining and cycling such balance, when I achieve it.  Just the garden is one thing but we have almost 100 acres including about 10 acres of pasture that needs improvement.    I'm thinking of the long game.  I want to improve my soil for my kids, grandkids, and beyond.  I don't want them to have to be buying all these off site minerals forever.   Solomon doesn't address this sufficiently in my opinion.  I don't think there's one answer but I'd love to start a brainstorm of the strategies.

1. Biochar.  We've dipped our toes into this.  I devoured Kelpie Wilson's book this spring.  I bought a tote from Concentrates in PDX (will start making more ourselves once fire danger passes) and we've been adding it to animal bedding to soak up nutrients, adding it to compost heaps, and using it in our pee buckets to innoculate in urine. I've still yet to add it to my garden in earnest but I will be doing so for my fall garlic planting as a test.  My big goal wouldn't be for it to have an immediate effect in any one bed, but to be a long term sponge of all the nutrients I'm adding.  James at BLOSSOM told me I probably don't have to worry about biochar affecting my potassium excesses but I admit I still have a niggling worry about that.  

2. Closed loop practices in general.  All our humanure and pee is put back on the land.  Same with that from our animals.  We do sell some meat off our land to friends but we're also still buying in grain so I hope it's relatively balanced.  With the bones my newest idea is to make them into bone char (since they don't break down well in compost).  Since bones are full of calcium and phosphorus, two minerals we could really use (and no worry about excess potassium!), it would seem to be the ideal char material. (same with oyster shells, see below).  On the topic of compost, I'm still not confident I'm creating good stuff.  I miss the days when I did it intuitively and felt like i was doing great.  Solomon has made me gunshy!!

3. Resources from the sea.  Seems like this was probably the key part of native people's survival in this part of the world.  We feed kelp to our animals and ourselves, eat as much seafood as we can.  Bought a small bottle of SeaCrop from BLOSSOM and used it as a foliar spray twice during the season.   That's relatively local.  And we could start figuring out how to harvest our own seaweed at the ocean.   I've collected oyster shells and experimented with making biochar with them.  Maybe if I had a huge pile of oyster shells in my woods I'd feel rich!!

4.  The grass ley.  Solomon talks about this and the historical practice of it.  Basically long cycles off of gardening in a specific area.  It make sense.  I'm only resistant to the idea of it because it means a massive expansion of my already massive garden.  I have a lot of land, but everything has to be fenced to protect from animals and we've already invested a lot in the fencing we have.  Maybe having double the garden and gardening it for 2 years then switching could be doable but I can't imagine more than that.   Also, I'm not sure how much this helps with mineral balancing or if it's just about the organic matter.  My soils are naturally pretty high on organic matter (over 10) so maybe that's not a huge concern.  Also, it's supposed to help with symphalans which he talks a lot about but I'm not sure I have here???

Please chime in!!

I would highly recommend some plant tissue testing. I did this in the fall of 2024 on volunteer grain and the results told me my soils were in quite good balance. The standard soil test I had taken the last 2 years said I was devoid of almost all nutrients. I have read Logan Labs is highly regarded, is there anything in the testing you did measuring soil biological function? I am no expert on soils or tests but excess nutrients can complex others. Your high K level may be masking nutrients that are in the soil. I am high on phosphorus and this can complex zinc. My plant tissue and crop residue testing says I am adequate on zinc. I am fortunate to have questioned the test result I was getting from the standard chemical analysis soil test. My soil consultant at the time was recommending truckloads of hard rock phosphate when my advanced soil and biological function testing showed all of our acres with 100% phosphorus. Our pH runs a bit high here (7.5 average) and this can skew test results as well. A better biological function will get more humus working and the pH will be closer to neutral.

One of the measurements on the Logan Labs test is soil organic matter.  Mine is 10.5 I think.  Totally sufficient.  And that's in unamended soil.  I didn't test any of my beds where I had been adding manure forever, I bet the organic matter is through the roof on those which is maybe not good.  

From my understanding Phosphorus is one that can kind of "hide" in the soil and not show up on tests.  But I've not heard that about the others.  I think I remember Solomon saying high PH can skew things like you say.  Mine ph is low (5.9) so I have a different situation.   I know the Logan Labs are good and I feel pretty confident in their results and the analysis I got from Gary and James at Blossom.   Who did you test with before?

I've wondered about plant tissue testing.  Is it expensive and where did you get it done?  I played around with a Brix meter and I don't really trust it.  

On that note there's something I'm curious about that I've never seen mentioned in any info on soil mineral balancing - what about nutritional value of foraged plants and weeds?  I forage a lot of nettle.  It's supposed to be loaded with calcium and other helpful minerals.  But is MINE loaded with calcium if my soils are seriously deficient in calcium like all soils in our region?  Maybe nettle is really good at pulling up calcium even when it's deficient?  Or should I be tossing some lime down on the ground in my nettle patches?  If its not too expensive I'd love to get some tissue testing done on my patches, then compare after amending.  

All of this also just makes me so distrustful of all food and herbs I buy.  You'll see a nutrient analysis saying these pumpkin seeds have such and such grams of zinc or magnesium or whatever but are they actually testing that batch of seeds or are they just taking from a stock government website of some pumpkins seeds grown decades ago in really good soil?

I read Steve's book,  did the Logan lab thing, and used the soil amendments..


I feel that unless you have a clear defined goal, you can't hit that goal.      

Thus,   one needs to do plant tissue testing.....

But after long thought I have come to this conclusion......      Why am I spending so much effort making nutrient rich food, when I can just buy nutrient rich food and consume the amount I need, verses attempting to fertilize my entire farm  into perfect balance for plants?

I have come to the conclusion for the $,  I am much better off buying Moringa  ( very nutrient dense plant )   and consuming that along with minerals and supplements that give me the nutrition my body needs.       This way I can buy the food that is calorie dense and spend far less on my grocery bill than the cost of making "perfect soil"...   and all of the testing required to make nutrient dense food.

Mart Hale wrote: Why am I spending so much effort making nutrient rich food, when I can just buy nutrient rich food and consume the amount I need, verses attempting to fertilize my entire farm  into perfect balance for plants?

I have come to the conclusion for the $,  I am much better off buying Moringa  ( very nutrient dense plant )   and consuming that along with minerals and supplements that give me the nutrition my body needs.       This way I can buy the food that is calorie dense and spend far less on my grocery bill than the cost of making "perfect soil"...   and all of the testing required to make nutrient dense food.

Is the "nutrient rich food" you are talking about Moringa?  Is your whole diet based on that and supplements?  Can you verify that the moringa you're buying actually contains the nutrients it claims to?  

I'm wanting my land to provide for the health of me and my children.  I don't have reason to trust the claims of far away actors as to what nutrients their food contains given the well document problems of soil degradation around the world.  Supplements have their own problems.   Further, the global economy is extremely fragile.   It doesn't seem like we can rely on these things long term to sustain our health or that of our children.    I'd rather stockpile bags of rocks and oyster shells.

Also, I'm curious what you mean by "calorie dense" food.  The implication is that it's calorie dense food that is not nutrient dense?  Why would you eat that?  My understanding is that anytime we eat food that is not nutrient dense we are taxing our bodies and taking time off our lives by making our body digest things that don't contain nutrients.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but your approach seems misguided and not really permaculture either.

The point about cost is fair honestly. Logan Labs plus shipping plus amendments adds up pretty quick, and then you're waiting a couple of seasons to know if anything actually shifted. I went down the Albrecht rabbit hole a few years back and found it genuinely interesting but hard to know what moved the needle versus just time and compost. The tissue testing angle makes sense if you want something more actionable.

Courtney Munson wrote:

Mart Hale wrote: Why am I spending so much effort making nutrient rich food, when I can just buy nutrient rich food and consume the amount I need, verses attempting to fertilize my entire farm  into perfect balance for plants?

I have come to the conclusion for the $,  I am much better off buying Moringa  ( very nutrient dense plant )   and consuming that along with minerals and supplements that give me the nutrition my body needs.       This way I can buy the food that is calorie dense and spend far less on my grocery bill than the cost of making "perfect soil"...   and all of the testing required to make nutrient dense food.

Is the "nutrient rich food" you are talking about Moringa?  Is your whole diet based on that and supplements?  Can you verify that the moringa you're buying actually contains the nutrients it claims to?  

I'm wanting my land to provide for the health of me and my children.  I don't have reason to trust the claims of far away actors as to what nutrients their food contains given the well document problems of soil degradation around the world.  Supplements have their own problems.   Further, the global economy is extremely fragile.   It doesn't seem like we can rely on these things long term to sustain our health or that of our children.    I'd rather stockpile bags of rocks and oyster shells.

Also, I'm curious what you mean by "calorie dense" food.  The implication is that it's calorie dense food that is not nutrient dense?  Why would you eat that?  My understanding is that anytime we eat food that is not nutrient dense we are taxing our bodies and taking time off our lives by making our body digest things that don't contain nutrients.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but your approach seems misguided and not really permaculture either.

I have come to verify Moringa by the results of how it helps people..        Research it and look at the data for how people who have consumed it have improved in health.     Sorta like people found out vitamin C works so well against scurvy, to me the results are over whelming.





My diet is gmo free / organic /  what I can grow,  I start with calories, then nutrition, then minerals, then enzymes.      

As for permaculture,  it really is not the guiding force in my life this is true.     I am more into Christianity as my base of beliefs and direction.      Permaculture has great aspects of community, sharing methods of growing food, but I do not see it as the final direction for my life.     I like testing the various methods permaculture has made, it is like six sigma for growing food  ( obtain a yield )  ;-)

The vision you have for building soil that is for future generations is very noble indeed, but do your children want to farm?         I love the chop and drop method of permaculture,   and the founders Like Sepp Hotlzer, and "the one straw revolution"   these ideals of working with nature is far far better than traditional ag.

My land is made up of glacial till, so it seems as if the soil profile changes in less than 3 inches, making soil tests not very useful. My understanding from my reading, is that healthy microbes and myccorrhiza are the key. Biochar can help hold onto what they scavenge for you. Look at the weeds to help suggest if there are things your land is working at providing enough of, or contains as excess of.

As for your fencing/garden issue, a local organic farmer has 4 areas in food rotation and reserves one of them for her chickens each year. It sounds as if your animals are larger than chickens, but it might give you another idea. Maybe a mom + babe could use an area for a month even.