Finding a permaculture enthusiast in Southwest Louisiana

If anyone on here is from Southwest Louisiana, give me a shout out.  I would like some company to consult with and share ideas so I don't feel so alone down here.

Im in Northwest Louisiana,near Shreveport/bossier.  You know the good,non frenchy,part of the state

Well even tho you arent exactly in my backyard we have much in common. You are inHardiness zone 9 probably right? Im in 8a. The good news for us is we are in the butter zone for permaculture. God made Eden but right after he made Louisiana. As for meI have ben able to grow pretty much any temperate fruits,nut,and vege's.  You should be able to do similar miss some temperate ones,like some apples,but it is more then made up for the added number of tropicals.

Here is a list of canopy tree that I either have,only a handful of them, or wishing to try as I think I can grow some variety here ,with some will be a pure experiment.  Some of the more tropical ones you should have no problem with. If you are interested I have a list of various seller you can look at. This is just a list of top canopy an lower level tree's.

Not in alphabetical order

1.Apple-I have more options in 8 then you do but ive found some very low chill level ones you might be interested in.
2. Apricot
3.Sweet cherry-I think im stretching it to get them here so may not be an option for you.
4.Plum
5.Peach
6.Pear
7.Strawberry Tree
8.Pawpaw
9.Persimmon
10.Autumn Olive
11.Monkey Puzzle
12.Hickory
13.Pecan
14.Chestnut
15.Hazelnut
16.Walnut
17.Almond
18.Oak-Mostly for animal but you can eat the acorns if you wash the meat several times,ive been told.
19.Black Locust-mosty for nitrogen but also for animal forage.
20.Feijoa(pinapple Guava)
21.Jackfruit- This one should be right up your alley. Im reallly pushing it for here,lots of special attentin, butthe payoff will be nice if I can.
22.Fig
23.Jujube
24.Loquat
25.Kumquat
26.Mayhaw
27.Olive-true olive
28.Pomegranate
29.Quince
30.Chinquan
31.Bananna-need I even say easier for you?
32.Mulberry
33.Date Palm
34.Macadamia Nut-Should do much better for you then me.
35.Sapodilla-better for you
36.Tea-yes it grows into a tree.
37.Papaya-more you aswell
38.White Sapote-More you
39.Cinnamon
40.Custard Apple
41.Lychee
42.Mango
42.Spanish Lime-not a lime like you buy.
43.Avocado
44.Guava

And thats just an upper story. Ill follow up with my lower level and vege level plants. But as I said we are in the butter zone.Good temperature range LONG growing season,long daylight hours for some plants,SORRY pacific NW ,and access to LSU AG. They have a free monthly or bi monthly  magazine  for LA residents you can get . Its mostly just talks about how they are helping commercial farmers by developing new breeds. Tho is does have some good stuff in it for us. Plus its comepletely free. Oh you can also order some pamplets for some crops off the lsu ag website. Some PDF only, some free,some with a small cost. I dont know if you have already but go to your parish seat and find the ag extension office and get a soil test done. Cost me $8 abox but worth it. They can also give you Ooddles of info more specific to your local.  Also check with your ag extension of LSU AG events,or their website. They are always have stuff all over the state. Im lucky in that regard as we have alot of LSU research stations up around here,but im sure you will too.

My Aunt lives in Shreveport so Im through there a few times a year.  I am interested in what varieties of Apple you have.  I have 1 apple tree (Ein Shemer), its an Israeli variety that Im trying out.  Heres what I have so far in the way of trees.  Not in alphabetical order.

1. Figs
2. Pear
3. Plum
4. Peach
5. Apple
6. Paw paw
7. Satsuma
8. Orange
9. Grapefruit
10. Oak
11. Magnolia

I've only been on this property for 8 months so my fruit trees are very young at this juncture.  The drought has been terrible this year and Im curious as to how you have been dealing with this.  I've created some mini swales for planting fruit trees, as the land here is nearly flat.  I have some comfrey seeds ordered and I intend to plant it as well as some different legumes under my various fruit trees.  As many varieties as you have, I would assume that you've been at this for a while and you have opened yourself up as a resource.  Thank you.  I will be asking you questions and sharing what I have learned with you as well.

Mgui35, I'm in Westlake (right on side of Lake Charles). Is that South West enough for you? I am also looking for permie people in/near my community so if you are it would be nice to meet up. Maybe we can even start some support structure for other locals. If anyone is around the Calcasieu Parish area then please give me a hollar.

sorry for the late reply. Im fairly new to this permaculture stfff myself. What I do know is orchards and livestock.  The drought hasnt effected me at my place im surrounded by water all year,its almost an island. At my kinfolks land they lost almost every single red oak they had.
Only real negative is I usually get all the free rotten hay I want,but now there isnt much of any hay to be found...all got shipped to Texas.
Oh and that free magazine from LSU AG is ..Louisiana Agriculture. Original name right ? hehe

What kind of shrubs/vines do you have?  I have blueberries, blackberries, and will be getting some muscadines. 

7 different grape varities, 2 of which are wild muscadine
kiwi
blackberry

blueberry
pineapple guava
rosemary
bayleaf

and about 15 ir so diff varitiy of trees

Guys,

Has all of the spring rain drowned anything out? I am a guillory as well. My fathers family came from Lake Charles.

Hi- I'm new to this site and permiculture. I saw this post with folks from La and wanted to say Hi. I live in Southeast LA. We moved back here last year from VA where we lived for about 18 years. We live on a river with some pasture and hardwoods that has been left to its own for about 70 plus years... It needs a lot of work but we are taking our time so we can learn what we need to and remove harmful items and leave the good stuff that should be growing here... So far we have some planted the following in part of the pasture that we are turning into an orchard
1) Apples- Fuji, Granny, Anna, Einsheimer (SP?) and Dorset Golden
2) Citrix- Navel, Satsuma, Meyer Lemon, Graptfruit,
3) Grapes- Seedless Thompson, Seedless Concorde, Nigeria, Mars,
4) Raspberries
5) Plum tree
6)- We have a lot of wild blackberries growing here already.

One question I have- I have something I found yesterday that I am not sure what it is. It sort of looks like a blueberry bush but the berries are more shinny. It is growing next to the riverbank in sandy soil. Any ideas what it might be?

I am no horticulturalist, but I did a google search. try this

What part of southeast louisiana are you in? I look forward to moving back.

Livingston parish

I know nothing about permaculture, but I am learning. I am in Livingston Parish and trying to figure this out.

Jefferson Parish here, but hello fellow Louisianians.

Hi! I just joined this group. I am south of Lafayette, very near Vermilion Bay. My hubby and I have been living on a farm here since 1980. We have cattle and chickens. We have many citrus trees and some fruit trees. I would like to have all of those trees Mr. Langford listed! We have recently fenced off an area to extend our orchard. Maybe this winter we will be able to plant a few trees. It's really tough when the cows manage to get in the orchard. They love to be where they shouldn't!

There is a small bayou along our property. We have a crawfish pond and other low-lying properties. Hubby has unique ways of thinking. He has improved our property so much over the years. He is always thinking of ways to move water around. Some of the low-lying parts are leveed and then he can pump the water out so the cattle can graze. I haven't seen that one in any permaculture articles, have you?

I have one large garden and two smaller ones. The large one was only started three or four years ago. Half of it is okra - yum, huh? The darned stink bugs are killing me right now, but that was expected. Does anyone know of a way to get rid of them? At least they don't touch the okra!

Now that I have this larger garden, it is all I think about. If I could spend half of my time in there pulling weeds, that would make me happy. Who needs to do housework when there are weeds that need to be pulled?

It's hard to find permaculture information that is for our special Zone 9. Can anyone recommend some sources?

Nice meeting you!

- Natial

Tell me about it Mrs. dAugereau. Everything I read is either about much colder climates or much hotter. This year in my garden I tried to cover the ground between the crop with leaves and water plants to prvent the soil from getting so dry in the summer. BAD BAD idea. That leaf matter became infested with Roly Polies. They ate almost every sprout I had coming up. Learning from that I mixed that plant matter into the top 3 or 4 inches and replanted. BAM worked great even tho my heavy clay soil dries in the top inch everything under that is nice and moist. Plus no Roly Polies.

Thats what Im saying tho I read that idea in most of my permaculture book. Unfortunately it doesnt work here so I had to adapt. Now it has worked nicely with my fruit trees.

Im personally on the border of zone 8A and B. I think the lack of info targeted to us is because if you think about it we are in a kind of rare ecosystem. Most places with our heat and latitude are usually much much drier IE the mediterranean,the western U.S. Or much colder and drier Ie Tibetan plateau. About the closest places we can find are parts of China,Korea,and Southern Japan. Having actually been to Kadena AFB I was shocked at you much it was like home. It has hot and humid. As I was Exiled to Comifornia at the time it was a great feeling. All that said If you are interested in such things Id suggest learning about asian farming techniques as they are probably the best designed to work in our ecosystem. I mean think about the similarities We grow rice in Flooded fields like they do, We grow many of the same fruits as they do; infact we have been teaching china to grow Pecan trees;Most of that area is big into seafood as it has a huge coastline,they have always been big into aquaculture. If you think about it the similarities are really amazing considering we never tried to emulate them. About the only real big difference is we dont have mountains.All that said Masanobu Fukuoka's One straw revolution is about a japanese farmer doing a permaculture like thing. Unfortunately 75% of the book is his personal biography and his crazy asian philosophy.

You talk about building levies. This winter im going to build a chinampa with a levy ringing it,for flood control,to see if I cant go all summer without watering at all. I live on lake Bistineau So water isnt a problem if you make a garden near the water but then it gets flooded in the spring most years and kills anything you have planted. If you plant far enough away to be same from the flooding its all clay and dries like a brick around july and august killing everything if you dont water. On the plus side Since the lake has alot of invasive and natural water plants fertilizer/compost for soil building is free. Thank the good Lord for salvinia and hyacinths.





To everyone who has posted Id love to hear about any gardening techniques yall have developed for this great state.

Kevin from the DeRidder, LA area here. Have been interested in the concept of Permaculture since I first heard about it a couple of years ago. I recently bought an old 10 acre homeplace that had a lot of neglected plantings of pear, persimmon, blueberry, grapefruit, peach, plum, fig and some muscadine. It hadn't been tended in a long time and needed a lot of work and I've cleared/cleaned up a lot of the underbrush and trimmed up the trees that were left. I really want to implement Permaculture techniques as much as possible on the whole 10 acres and am in the learning phase of this....so I really don't have a plan yet on what I'm going to do to the property. It's gently sloping with good drainage, lots of big oak trees dispersed around the property and surrounded by planted pines on 3 sides....and of course the "orchard" areas that were there when I bought it/moved there.

I would welcome any design ideas on what works and what doesn't in our area. This is going to be a long term project for me, but I need a plan.

Natial dAugereau wrote:There is a small bayou along our property. We have a crawfish pond and other low-lying properties. Hubby has unique ways of thinking. He has improved our property so much over the years. He is always thinking of ways to move water around. Some of the low-lying parts are leveed and then he can pump the water out so the cattle can graze. I haven't seen that one in any permaculture articles, have you?

You probably won't see that system in a permaculture article because permaculture tries to store water at its highest point instead of pumping. http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/ will give you some information on the subject and also has books for sale(directly from the author no less!).

I have one large garden and two smaller ones. The large one was only started three or four years ago. Half of it is okra - yum, huh? The darned stink bugs are killing me right now, but that was expected. Does anyone know of a way to get rid of them? At least they don't touch the okra!

About the only thing I can suggest is to plant a trap crop between your main crop(s) and where the stink bugs enter your property. Stinkbugs come from the same general direction each year. Sunflowers work(it's what I use) and you can hand pick them off and destroy them if you want to get smelly...drowning might be better. Too bad chickens don't like them, or I'd be in serious business.

Now that I have this larger garden, it is all I think about. If I could spend half of my time in there pulling weeds, that would make me happy. Who needs to do housework when there are weeds that need to be pulled?

It's hard to find permaculture information that is for our special Zone 9. Can anyone recommend some sources?

Nice meeting you!

- Natial

As far as gardening goes: The LSU AgCenter along with your local Cooperative Extension Agent and Master Gardeners. These folks know what grows in your area, not counting micro-climates.

Most permaculture books have the information you need for any climate. Permaculture: A Designer's Manual(Bill Mollison) will get you the necessary information about permaculture. Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability(David Holmgren) will give you information on the more theoretical/philosophical side of permaculture. Gaia's Garden(Toby Hemenway) is more specific to North America, but isn't all encompassing. After that, it's finding books on specific topics(like southern gardening, rainwater harvesting, earthworks, solar panels, wind turbines, cooling/heating your home, etc.).

Yes, what Allan said.

Bill Mollisons home base is, I believe, zone 9ish. I have watched every video I can find of his and the ones done at his farm are just so amazing to me, I love the tropical.

I just found this site. I live in Ruston, Lousiana which is in Lincoln Parish. I am new to gardening and I don't have a lot of space. I am currently using hugel kultures which have worked well despite the hot, dry summer. I have planted a fig tree, muscadine grapes, blueberries and raspberries, pomegranate and I've ordered a tea plant (camilla sinensis) and a couple of quince. I've been here a year so I'm really just getting started. I may be picking your brains so, thanks in advance!

Wow. Lots of folks from LA. I was born in Lake Charles. All my family is in the Lake Charles/Moss Bluff area. I'm currently living near Houston but I bought 10 acres in Hemphill, Tx which is just this side of the border from Many, LA. Close enough right? I'm planning on starting my food forest this coming year.

Today I ate a citrus fruit that someone from Shreveport gave to me. The woman called it an orange but it's peel is more like a tangerine (though too big to be a cutie or a tangerine). The grower told me she doesn't know what the tree is but she doesn't have to protect it during the winter. So...do any of you know what this could be? Can we really grow citrus here without covering it when we get a frost?

As far as I know, you can't reliably grow citrus that far north. Even in the New Orleans area, I'm pushing my luck growing it. Microclimates may play a part in her luck with that "orange" tree.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/crops_livestock/crops/citrus/citrus+and+freezing+temperatures.htm
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/lawn_garden/home_gardening/fruits_nuts/Louisiana+Home+Citrus+Production.htm

It was most likely a satsuma. I absolutely love them. It's my favorite citrus.

It peeled like a satsuma and it tasted a lot like a satsuma but it was as large as a baseball and the satsumas I've purchased around here are smaller. Do satsumas get that big? I'd like to see where they have this tree positioned, I think it must be in a warm, protected microclimate as was previously mentioned.

On a different note, I'm putting together my 6th hugelkulture and I've been so pleased with how well they work here in north Louisiana. We get infrequent but deep rains and I seldom have to irrigate. I have kale, lettuce and spinach growing year round in the hugelkultures.

There are quite a few cultivars. I'm sure some get bigger than others. Most of the ones I've seen were between a tangerine and an orange. I had a couple grow on one of my trees this year that were the size of an orange.

Well then, yes, it is probably a satsuma. It was delicious and i may try to find a way to grow it in Ruston. I remember Sepp Holtzer has some techniques using rocks and water to warm an area.
Thanks, Mark.

The satsuma and kumquats are the only cold hardy citrus that are edible uncooked as far as I know. The satsuma can stand down to 10 degrees. You might also try some heavy composting and mulching to keep some warmth around it. Good luck to you!

Great information and I love the video, thanks everyone for letting me pick your brains. My next question...are there stinging nettles growing in north Louisiana? My husband and I drink nettle tea year round to deal with allergies to all the mold etc that grows in this humidity. Marty is originally from California and I'm from Denver; our sinuses have not adapted to this area and we end up with sinus problems if we aren't diligent. I don't want to keep buying nettle tea so I've been reading about foraging for stinging nettles and making infusions or even cooking with them. I'm aware that spring is the time to forage for said item but I don't know if I will need to obtain seeds and plant my own or if stinging nettles grow here. Thanks!

I have yet to see Nettles, though I would like some as well.

Hi everyone. I'm in Bee Bayou, La. Just East of Rayville/Monroe in the NE.
For those who haven't already, I highly suggest watching the Permaculture Design Course taught by Bill Mollison and Geof Lawton. It was taped in Melbourne in 2009 I think. It's the 72 hr course. I have it and have watched it 3 or 4 times already. It's one of the best intellectual investments I've made.
Also, the books Edible Forest Gardens 1 & 2 are the temperate permaculture bibles. The 2nd book is worth having just for the huge list of plants. The first book lists the Top 100 plants for us.
I have copies of these in PDf as well and the PDC videos saved on my hard drive. If anyone needs these I am willing to share. Use your own discretion though dealing with copyrights or whatever.
I can also 2nd the recommendation for Gaia's Garden and anything involving Sepp Holzer.
I haven't bought my property yet but will in the next couple of years. I love that Louisiana can grow such a variety, I dislike that we are so flat and I can't really get into swaling and contour dams as much. I do believe chinampas may be great here. I want a few with living trellises and with fish/mussels/prawns and water plants. Chinampas are even more viable for you in the south.
I've amassed a lot of info and resources and am an open book if I can help. I've also found a few great online nurseries with great plants for Permies.
I hope eventually we can get enough of us together to share plants and experiences and maybe animals. I think we in La have a chance to design awesome properties.
A couple things I wanted to list just because I had some trouble finding them are a few N-fixers for us:
Redbud
Mimosa(silk tree) these grow wild here in abundance
thornless honey locust
black locust (has big thorns :>(
Goumi (eleagnus multiflora) my mawmaw from Forest Hill has one and I love the berries. Kinda like a small sour cherry
also the wisteria vine is a N-fixer and very pretty
we have a ton of small n-fixers and they will probably be more important for us since we cant grow all the tropical nitrogen fixing tall trees.
Japanese Pagoda Tree

For the person trying sweet cherries here, Tulare, Coral Champagne, and Brooks requiring only 400 chill hours each.
Apples are Anna, Ein Shemmer, Dorsett Gold, and the Sweet Tropic developed in Florida

I also found that wintergreen is an evergreen groundcover than can grow and produce in full shade! You can eat the berries and leaves.
I also think the edible varieties of dogwood (cornus mas) will work well here. Dogwoods are everywhere

Well, I better stop for now. I could brainstorm all day. I'm very excited to see that La has other permaculturists. If anyone needs anything please let me know. Eager to help. J

Oh, I forgot to mention the citrus. There are cold hardy varieties that go fully dormant. Also, Sepp Holzer grows citrus and it gets -35 degrees where he is.
Here is a list of some cold hardy citrus.

Calamondin 16 degrees F
Chinotto Orange 16 degrees F
Changshi Tangerine 8 degrees F
Meiwa Kumquat 16 degrees F
Nagami Kumquat 16 degrees F
Nippon Orangequat 15 degrees F
Ichang Lemon 10 degrees F
Tiwanica Lemon 10 degrees F
Rangpur Lime 15 degrees F
Red Lime 10 degrees F
Yuzu Lemon 12 degrees F

Great information, Jeremiah, I will read up on some of the fruit trees and other items you mention; many of them are new to me. You are not far from Ruston where I live, I think it's hillier here though. I'm glad to know someone so close is using permaculture. There are a few people in Ruston who have been looking at my huglekultures (and how well they work here) and are giving them a try on their land. These techniques will spread because they work! I look forward to hearing more from you.

Jeremiah, you mentioned you have a list of some good nurseries; where would you purchase the goumi or the cherries? My husband and I love cherries and have missed them since moving south. I like both sweet and sour cherries. Thanks!

Jeremiah Temple wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention the citrus. There are cold hardy varieties that go fully dormant. Also, Sepp Holzer grows citrus and it gets -35 degrees where he is.
Here is a list of some cold hardy citrus.

Calamondin 16 degrees F
Chinotto Orange 16 degrees F
Changshi Tangerine 8 degrees F
Meiwa Kumquat 16 degrees F
Nagami Kumquat 16 degrees F
Nippon Orangequat 15 degrees F
Ichang Lemon 10 degrees F
Tiwanica Lemon 10 degrees F
Rangpur Lime 15 degrees F
Red Lime 10 degrees F
Yuzu Lemon 12 degrees F

What root stock are those on?

I'm assuming their own, but I know Trifoliate rootstock is used with some citrus due to its hardiness.
I got the list from Justfruitandexotics.com they are in florida and specialize in plants for the south.

janet jacobsen wrote:Jeremiah, you mentioned you have a list of some good nurseries; where would you purchase the goumi or the cherries? My husband and I love cherries and have missed them since moving south. I like both sweet and sour cherries. Thanks!

These guys are the best
http://www.onegreenworld.com//product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=544

They also have a nice selection
http://www.burntridgenursery.com/nutTrees/index.asp?dept=3

Vegetables
http://perennialvegetables.org/perennial-vegetables-for-each-climate-type/hot-and-humid/
http://www.bountifulgardens.org/prodinfo.asp?number=LAY-6610#.UNYRE28azuo

Hi Janet,

I would get the cherries from http://www.willisorchards.com/category/Cherry+Trees#.UNYYq29ZVyQ
and the goumi from Raintreenursery.com most likely. They have one of the best/widest selections of plants that I want.

You should have a look at http://www.seedsavers.org/onlinestore/Vegetables/ for heirloom veggies. I pretty much want to buy it all!
I think a big part of sustainability will be in broadening our diets. They have so many squash that I have never seen and want to try. Like most
I was raised on yellow summer squash and some zucchini and thats it. I also want to try fresh beets and radishes and on and on.

I like willisorchards too. They have 10ft chestnut family trees.
One Green World might have slightly bigger selection, but they also have data such as height, pound of harvest, time of flower, time of harvest, etc.
I also got a apricot with edible nut/kernels like a almond from starksbro. http://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/apricot-trees/stark-sweetheart-apricot
I also like the 4N1 Plouts and Aprium from these guys http://www.baylaurelnursery.com/pluots-plumcots-etc.html
Citrus http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

Both of those look awesome! Willis used to have a 3 apple variety with the southern varieties. Anna, ein shemmer, and dorsett gold. I don't see it on the site now. Those three plus a tropic sweet on 1 tree would be great. I may have to graft that some day.
I have always loved plouts, but just recently found out they are a crossbreed. I thought they were just a plum. my bad
Now, if someone would only find a watermelon tree I would be set!

I got one word for you " Avocado" http://www.chestnuthilltreefarm.com/Cold-Hardy-Avocados-3943.Category.html

Here is the apple http://www.toptropicals.com/cgi-bin/store/store.cgi?item=4069

I have seen a Melon tree its called Che, http://www.hiddenspringsnursery.com/plants.html#Melon_Tree