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What is 'Permies' ?

 
Jami McBride
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Just this group of goofballs that are nuts about permaculture....?

As some of you know I am working on setting up a wiki for permies.  Paul is suppose to be helping, but so far he has been MIA (hint hint  :roll.

Anyway, I thought it would be great if I could get some of you to say what you feel this group is all about.  Kind of an About Us written by Us, for Us, and visitors. I want to take some of what's said over to the wiki's home page.  And I can't wait to hear what permies people are going to say about permies.

This quote by Gary is about permaculture, but it could almost be about permies (permaculture people) too.

   I think permaculture attracts folks who "think outside the box" and provides more tools to do just that.   I like the term 'gardeners that have gone feral'.   Permaculture may seem loosely organized to you but people who think outside the box  are difficult to organize as a group [because they are always thinking outside the box], and I think forums like this are a wonderful way to keep in touch with other permies and new ideas.     Gary

So what do YOU say about this group called permies?  Does Paul's statement above say it all?

 
Joel Hollingsworth
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Permies is a collaborative effort to work with ecosystems to meet human needs in ways that are more-broadly beneficial.

Like a scientific journal or a hacker forum, we explore to build our understanding of a system and capability within it, and delight in finding ways to know or do what conventional rules for that system had unnecessarily closed off.  But instead of theoretical or technological systems, we focus on natural and practical ones.
 
paul wheaton
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Jami McBride wrote:
Paul is suppose to be helping, but so far he has been MIA (hint hint  :roll.


I told you I was gonna be booked all weekend.  What, getting the fungi perfecti folks on board was not enough for you?   

I think the definition of "permies" is clear:  people who advocate permaculture.  And I think the thing on the home page is just me having a bit of fun saying that:  "goofballs that are nuts about permaculture."

The real challenge is how to define "permaculture". 

How about

"a web of knowledge mapping humans and nature together for the improvement of both."

or ....

"a collection of techniques to improve the symbiotic relationship between people and the earth."

or ...

"a healing path for people and nature."


 
Leah Sattler
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Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
Permies is a collaborative effort to work with ecosystems to meet human needs in ways that are more-broadly beneficial.

Like a scientific journal or a hacker forum, we explore to build our understanding of a system and capability within it, and delight in finding ways to know or do what conventional rules for that system had unnecessarily closed off.  But instead of theoretical or technological systems, we focus on natural and practical ones.


I love this summary! eloquent and encompassing. especially the first sentence. I am cautious with labels because it implies that there is complete consensus within or a 'following' of someone or something. joel's beautiful explanation allows for total freedom of ideas.
 
Brenda Groth
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Gone Ferel....yeah that describes me..to a T.

I've always kinda been outta step with my peers, outside the box, the wierd one.

I've always questioned the status quo, wanted more, different, couldn't settle for the sameo

I think we are all different, but that is a good thing..if we were all the same we would be a monoculture

The whole idea of us all being different and heading in different directions is the entire focus of permaculture..if we all did the same thing..we would all make the same mistakes..and we would lose our growth as people.

Different, that has always been a way of life for me. Even though I'm older now and can't do all the things i've dreamed of, I have had a much more full life on my humble acerage, then most people have on their little plots of urban lawn...going to their cubicles or factories or offices...i go to my pond or back yard or library.

Sometimes i think my life is boring or "less than" what it could be, but then I look around at all that I have accomplished here and realize it isn't..all I have to do is to open my eyes and look out my window, or put on my shoes and take a walk  through the woods, or gardens..and there will always be some little marvel to discover.
 
rose macaskie
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Life is the whole bundle and being bored is part of that. I can escape boredom now, writting but when i was younger and made myself do house work all the time i couldn't. It is a privilege to escape boredom. I don't forget my sisters doing boring jobs and pretend that boredom does not exist.
      It has to be counted or they give you a boring job and then don't recognise their debt and make no effort to recompense you for it in your free timetrying to occasionally make things a little less boring for you.
      Being fair is acknowledging or making others acknowledge all sort of debts. If you can't iron out all injustices at least you can iron out some. Men have a great time going to the pub while women in many parts have less possibilities to join in with others, i propose they don't get away with it Scot free anymore. They even think we would rather be at home because women are different. This different bit annuls the love others as your self bit, it is an Antichrist phrase. agri rose macaskie.
 
Joel Hollingsworth
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Thanks, Leah!

My ambition is to someday make the game I play as good as the game I talk.  That's still a long way off. 
 
Jami McBride
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Paul:  You know I'm just teasing with you - right?  I love being just one of the goofballs - REALLY     
And I am glad for the fungi-gurus, they will be a great addition.

Joel:  Excellent!  "Like a scientific journal or a hacker forum"  Anything you'd like to confess...   

"we explore to build our understanding of a system and capability within it, and delight in finding ways to know or do what conventional rules for that system had unnecessarily closed off."  Isn't that the truth.  I really like your focus on people and process. 

Great points made by everyone.  We are much more than labels can cover, and don't want to box ourselves in.  I liked something I read one time, which stated "people in search of harmonious systems". 



 
Brenda Groth
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Joel I love that last statement..i could heartily agree.

Rose with my husband haveing recoverd from alcoholism more than 10 years ago, he seldom if ever leaves the house..He has a 26 year head injury and is pretty much housebound other than an occasional shopping trip or dr visit or walk outside and maybe an occasional attempt at a project.

as he chooses to sleep more during the day than at night, i'm forced to be very quiet in the house when he is asleep, which is about 80 % of all day time hours (i sleep at night)..I am generally at home totally alone, i always manage to have housework done..and with rain for nearly 1 1/2 months straight with highs of 40's..i'm not doing a lot outside these days.

generally i don't allow boredom to get to me, but occasionally it does, when it does i try to go outside, even in the rain or snow..and find something to entertain me, a bird, an animal, pulling a few weeds sor something.
 
rose macaskie
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        I agree, cure for falling into  depression is not getting to fussy about what entertains you, actually this entertains me emorously i don't know when i have enjoyed anything so much since the first two years after i left england, it is strange i thought peòple had to be fisically present to provide company and i have known lots of physically present people who don't give any company at all and now i find i realy enjoy this sort of company through letters things aren't as I thought they were.
    i used to be so useless at house work that i think it filled lots more of my day than it should have, i thought you always had to clean under everything and polish twice a week and such, i did not manage it but trying kept me busyand as the house has these old floors it is the same washing them as leaving them dirty they look the same, Susan Munroe says she does not have house work anywhere on her list i think that is more or less my situation now thank heavens.
    I hated house work, some people don't mind it according to them. It is important when it comes to sharing to give credit to those who do the boring, it is all very well to say you are all right as a house wife, yes because i have stopped trying to be a house wife,  it is really tough being one, it would be really tough again if i went back to it . Though i might not be complaining. the house seems to look about the same whether i do it or not. People who have boring jobs just have it boring and that is tough psycologically and society should recognise it, the men who work in interesting jobs should recognise it. The rich who then say they wont give money to anyone who has not earned it, what do they call earning it? They don't want the people who do the boring jobs to get any more than a pittance.  Nasty lot.
      Its rather cool your husband being awake all night it means you don't have to look after him, i thought he might need a lot of attention. My husband is a compulsive lier he is like david copperfeild a magician at getting all the credit and doing hardly anything he has started to work a bit now in th ehouse or grden but he never ever used to, i wonder if he is the same at the office gets others to do things. He does not care if he takes one friend off you doing you down or the lot i thiink he probably crows over it i have heard his mother crow ovr gettign totaly the better of another type she  thought she was somethign but look she is nothing i am totaly the popular one, or look what a real ace i am i have got them all. They are a pitiless lot his family . One of a reason he gets believed is because has a long face another one is he starts to wrap you up long before you even thought you were being done for.
      I am done for with him, i don't stand a chance socially and never had and he ridiculises my work abilities,  he even manages to make it look as if he did house work, even when he never lifted a fingure, to the point that if i was cooking and looking after the baby, when my daughter was a baby, i had to run to the living room and answer the phone though he was in the next door room, he would just shout and i had to run down the passage and answer the phone for him. Really he treats me as a servant but some how carries it off by looking as if it is shyness that makes him silent not aloofness. He is scarey sort of long term scary, without feeling much fright at any one moment. agri rose macaskie,
     
 
rose macaskie
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joel hollingsworth, The game of talk is the game i play. I would call myself an apologists, maybe not a good one but an apologist. I walk the walk i do the apologising i don't just say i do it and it takes a fair amount of work. Really a lot it seems to me. 
      It was necesary to prove organic or permaculture ideas could work and it goes on being necesary  but sepp holzer has a thriving farm, so much so that modern austrian farmers who are failing in old fashioned farming are turning to him. geoff lawton has greened the desert, Roosevelts berms and swales work, as probably are Bill Mollisons, it must be some time now since he put them in. Now it is making sure people know the alternatives. It is stopping the big companies from lying about their stuff and getting some sort of equilibrium into things, a bit of chemicals and better watering and much more  organic matter in the soil to hold on to rain water and less erosion and no more salting up of soils.
  In my garden I dont have a food forest but i have improved the soil, i also have a lot of fruit trees. i post a photo of th ebottom of my garden and the bit on the other side a semi circle with small trees in it the bit hta someon eburnt with herbicides. th efoto is taken from above on top of the slope in front of the back of the house. agri rose macaskie.
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Joel Hollingsworth
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Jami McBride wrote: "Like a scientific journal or a hacker forum"  Anything you'd like to confess...   


I only follow network security with a minor intrerest, and the parts of that I'm interested are the implications a piece of news has for maintaining privacy. 

The "hacks" that really get me going are in the field of re-purposing consumer hardware marketed for trivial ends to make practical equipment.  The $1 microscope built with disposable camera lenses is a good example, as is the "brain interface" circuit built by monitoring the LED display of a "force trainer" toy.

I guess what I have to confess, there, is that I haven't done much.

Jami McBride wrote:  something I read one time, which stated "people in search of harmonious systems". 


Oooo...I like that a lot! 

"Goofballs that are nuts about permaculture" is a lot more approachable for someone just starting out, but once people have confirmed that the notion of "harmonious" isn't very dogmatic, the phrasing that you have brought up is really succinct and direct.
 
Jami McBride
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Since you like it Joel... I confess, it's my phrasing.  Could be someone else has had the exact same idea though - nothing new under the sun, as they say.

I've been getting some criticism lately and didn't feel brave enough to post my own statement.

My head cold isn't helping either *grin*

~Jami
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