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hatfields vs mccoys

 
master steward
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This software needs a first name and a last name. So on transition, if you had just one name, half of the people were assigned "hatfield" as a last name, and the other half got "mccoy".

 
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<snicker>
I saw a couple hatfields and thought, huh, the whole family must be into permaculture!
I had a friend who was a hatfield (the real mccoy so to speak ).
 
                        
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I'm aparently a mcCoy. Do I have to shoot a Hatfield when I come across one?
 
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I was wondering if this was a grand scheme or something and if people really chose Hatfield or McCoy (I am new to paying attention to names).

Hope to see this get a more personal feeling like Paul wants!
 
gani et se
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I was told that even the real Hatfields and McCoys have a truce now. So no need to shoot.
 
steward
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Hatfields, McCoys, and even a pirate (Morgan). And I was just looking for some peaceful gardening...
 
pollinator
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LOL! I wondered what was up with the Hatfields and McCoys -- came down here to see if my question had been answered! Makes me thankful that I'm using my whole name, LOL!

Kathleen
 
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Wondering why you're a Hatfield or a McCoy?
 
pollinator
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whew...

my draft horses are named hatfield and mccoy...i sometimes use their names for forum user names.... i couldn't remember what I had used signing up last summer and you really had me convinced that i had somehow accidentally corrupted the entire site!!

just a coincidence but you really had me going there for a bit...still laughing at myself
 
paul wheaton
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I would very much like to encourage everyone to click on "my profile" and change your name to your real name. Or, change your name to a real sounding name.

Thanks!

 
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LOL Thanks for the explanation. I had been reading through older threads and was so confused about who all the Hatfield's and McCoy's were.
 
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hoodat McCoy wrote:I'm aparently a mcCoy. Do I have to shoot a Hatfield when I come across one?



No, that ended when the banker that egged it on got all the Hatfield's and McCoy's land. Another case of not careing who got hurt so long as thet got what they wanted.
 
                                    
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paul wheaton wrote:I would very much like to encourage everyone to click on "my profile" and change your name to your real name. Or, change your name to a real sounding name.

Thanks!



Looks like I became a McCoy too...

Okay... I have a question, two arguments and a statement why I use anonymity.

Why is Paul interested in the appearance of non-anonymity?

Argument #1:
The difference between an anonymous handle and a fake real name is the difference between anonymity and the crime of impersonation of another person (accidental or by chance).

Argument #2:
This seems like an innocent request from Paul.

However, deeply rooted issues of free versus authoritarian societies are tied into this request.

Oh yes, I've heard the arguments of responsibility versus anonymity and the arguments that Internet anonymity is no longer possible. And arguments that there is no such thing as freedom.

But the fact remains after these arguments are exhausted, few (if any) authoritarian regimes can abide anonymous expression.

Yes, in the history of humankind, there have existed benevolent kings and queens. Anonymous express was encouraged under benevolent kings and queens so they could get all view points from their own people. And those who dared to speak without anonymity usually did not suddenly commit suicide, go to prison for unrelated issues usually having to do with sex, have a fatal accident, get strange cancers shortly thereafter, go mysteriously crazy, or get their heads chopped off.

Now surely, Paul Wheaton is a far cry from a dictator over my personal life, yes? And surely it isn't much to ask that people pretend to use real names? After all, it is his free to the user website for which we are all grateful, yes?

But this requirement sets a certain tone doesn't it?

The tone either says:
I.
"Outside pressure to conform to a system that can come and get people with the wrong opinion has become so great, we must pretend to use real names";

II. or "We just want you to take a little step towards becoming less anonymous. The difference between an anonymous handle and a fake real name is the difference between anonymity and the crime of impersonation of another person. One is a crime we can later make a legitimate argument for convincing you to later change to your real name."


When it comes to anonymity, the question is usually asked: what do you have to hide?

What do I have to hide? Everything: my way of life, who I love, how I talk, how I walk, how I breathe, how I eat and what I say on forums such as these.

A boundary used to exist between what a person shared with other people from one arena to another (as lovers, friends, business people)... now we are being told we must be forcibly made to share more and more until we are forced to share everything with anyone with enough power or money to make us do so. And further more, it is a privilege that we get to do so: if we don't like it, then all privileges to share will be taken from us.

Boundaries are not understood by unconscious abusers and all too well understood by predatory abusers, be they cults, governments, corporations or people.

The first thing a predatory abuser will do is start to break your boundaries with out your permission, all the while trying to seem innocent and making you sound like you're over reacting. Eventually, you tell yourself the black eye "isn't that bad" and that "you deserved it".

It's none of your dXXn business until I decide it is my business to share with you at whatever level I feel comfortable sharing with you based on trust. I decide who crosses what boundaries and when; not peer pressure, not a government, not a corporation and not any other entity that insists on it.
 
paul wheaton
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I guess I'm not following.

I'm not sure if you are saying that you will be using a name that sounds real, or if you will be leaving permies never to return.
 
                                    
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paul wheaton wrote:I guess I'm not following.

I'm not sure if you are saying that you will be using a name that sounds real, or if you will be leaving permies never to return.



Okay, lets start with the straight forward question:


Why are you interested in the appearance of non-anonymity?
 
paul wheaton
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the discussion about that was covered in some other threads in this forum.

And now I'm not really interested in talking about it anymore. the decision has been made.

It is acknowledged that there will be some people that are not comfortable with those path. And we will continue on without those people.

 
                                    
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paul wheaton wrote:the discussion about that was covered in some other threads in this forum.

And now I'm not really interested in talking about it anymore. the decision has been made.

It is acknowledged that there will be some people that are not comfortable with those path. And we will continue on without those people.



I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck with your endeavors!
 
paul wheaton
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It appears you are suggesting that you are not interested in participating in the path that permie.com is pursuing. I have locked your account. If it turns out that I made a mistake in this assumption, please send me an email with the name you want on your account and we'll get this all sorted out, right as rain.
 
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Just when everybody with a lick of sense had given up on this saga, it moves to the top once again. I'd be happy to provide name , address, phone number and photos of myself and my land. All of these things are discoverable anyway. I have nothing and no reason to hide. I own everything that I say and don't say things that would get me into serious trouble. Therefore, I only need one identity and the one that is the most easily remembered is my own.

See the name to the left. That's me and that's where I live. See the stuff written under my post. That's what I'm doing with my life. See the photograph. That's my gate and land, not some imaginary pipe dream.

I was thinking that it would be more than funny if people were reluctant to share any information with the postal service. Name- "I'm not telling" Address- "Can't tell you that either" What do you want- "Sorry, can't tell". "Hey, for some reason they aren't sending mail to my new place." Try that when you need to renew your drivers liscense.

In any other context this behaviour would be absolutely laughable.

IMAG2222.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMAG2222.jpg]
 
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I had Hatfield added to my name when that change was made, but I only found out last week that it was a reference to a TV show!
 
paul wheaton
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Thea Olsen
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Yikes! How did that bit of history escape my notice entirely?!
I find it amusing when I'm unaware of popular culture. When I'm ignorant about history, not so much.
 
paul wheaton
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I learned about it from cartoons when I was kid!
 
Dale Hodgins
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paul wheaton wrote:I learned about it from cartoons when I was kid!



One of my relatives who lived in the U.S. used those cartoons to explain what "hillbillies" were and why she was so fond of the jokes which were quite popular in that less politically correct time. It would probably be hard to sell a network on those cartoons today.
 
steward
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Actually , the jokes are rampant and all over the television - they just changed the name to Redneck. This does enlarge the genre to include the lowland hybrid of that same human subtype and because it is usually rednecks/hillbillies laughing at the jokes it qualifies as self deprecating humor. Hillbillies - keeping the woods free of critters since 1780 !
 
Dale Hodgins
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I've always been firmly in Paul's corner on this, partly because I agree with the concept and partly because I think it irritates the hell out of the cleptocrats who don't respect property rights. The forum belongs to Paul and therefore it only makes sense that his rules be followed.

BUT, there is one area where I think this rule should be relaxed. I'm not usually one to go around preaching compromise since too much compromise equals weakness in my book, but this is more a spirit of the law versus the letter of the law thing. There are many members who operate a business or who have a blog or other entity which bears a name other than the one their mother chose for them. The names of these businesses and other entities are real. It would be quite simple to confirm the existence of a business and to determine that the owner or spokesperson is the one posting to this forum.

The whole idea of going for real names was meant to add legitimacy and to prevent individuals from hiding behind one or many fake identities. I totally agree that names such as mudguy, compostlady and tiger lilly add nothing and may harm the credibility of the site. But names like Cherry Hill Farm, Happy Hippy Cooperative and Wright Brothers Masonry are descriptive and if they were actually real businesses or organizations, the inclusion of such a name would mean that the owner is out in the open and not attempting to hide. In fact they are more out in the open than the John Smiths of the forum. We know what they do for a living, where they live etc. Therefore they have given up annonymity to a greater degree than others have.

I believe that allowing legitimate businesses to use their real names would create more linking traffic and it would be useful whenever those members are posting in a section that relates to their field of expertise. If a plumbing issue comes up in Green Building, I'm going to be interested in what "Bob's Plumbing" has to say on the matter. When "prays-a-lot 23" argues that he's full of --it, the names become a useful tool regarding credibility.

Although there may be many members who are head of a real enterprise and would like to post under that name, I can only recall two right now. They are Springtime Homes and Velacreations. One is a building company and the other is a man of many talents who posts things to his own forum as well. Neither of these gentelmen were attempting to hide when they posted under their business names. Compelling a name change has taken away a distinctive, descriptive element that helps the reader in understanding who they are conversing with. It has in fact, forced greater annonymity upon those who were very open about their identity.

I totally understand the concept of holding your ground and not giving in to pressure from nitwits. This saga has gone on so long that it would be imprudent to give in at this point, even if nothing is to be gained under the current policy. Capitulation would lead to the same gaggle of nitwits challenging other rules of the forum once they smell blood. I don't see this issue as being just about names anymore. It has become a platform for anyone who thinks that they shouldn't have to follow the rules and that they should be allowed to determine the future direction of this site.

I offer this as a reasonable compromise which would smoothe relations with business owners and organizations spokespeople without giving one thing to those who simply want to be contrary as a means of challenging your authority.

Thank you: Dale Hodgins
 
paul wheaton
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I've heard this argument more than a hundred times.

The policy stays as is: real sounding names. Businesses can link to their business from their signature.
 
Dale Hodgins
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Paul's reply came so quickly and was so succinct that I know there is no point in me trying to sway him on this matter. I like that, even though I didn't get anywhere with it. He made a decision long ago and stood his ground once again. --- I could squalk away and write another ten pages while muttering to myself about how inflexible Paul is, but the result would be the same. A decision has been made. ---I will now skitter my ass back to the building and growing sections of the forum and leave this matter to the experts.
 
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okay, now i get it. i applied for a name change though. at first i though i had been hacked!
 
Dale Hodgins
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hannah johns wrote:okay, now i get it. i applied for a name change though. at first i though i had been hacked!



The overlord has shown the patients of Job on this subject. Although he may have sharpened his sling blade, so far as I know he hasn't actually hacked anybody YET !!! Time will tell.
 
hannah johns
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so i am assuming my name sounds real enough? funny since i can't get a driver's license now because of the real i d law that kansas uses now.....i have copious amounts of proof and the ss office won't change my ss name without more. it is my legal name (with two middle names) encompasses my birth name, and i have expired dls, pps, income tax returns, sealed divorce with name change. at least i can use it here and everywhere other than on my dl.
 
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