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master rocket scientist
Posts: 6753
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
3630
cat pig rocket stoves
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Hi all;
As many of you know. This last year I upgraded  my two rocket mass heaters from J tube to batch box.
Our one J tube, we have been using for over seven years!  It was not an easy decision dismantling it .
Liz in particular, was very concerned. Her perfectly working 8" J tube, that she had come to count on . Was about to be dismantled.
She also didn't like the thought of me creating dirt and dust on all her art work!  
Sorry Dear but Progress has a cost... You'll get over it and love the new rocket even more!

Yeah right...we will see!

Now a month later, construction is finally complete, she/we couldn't be happier!
Her studio/ greenhouse was always comfy with the J tube. No problems. Even over a Montana winter night with no fire.  Next morning always found  the plastic uninsulated building well above freezing.
You did need to go restart that fire relatively soon in the morning or it would start dropping towards freezing.
The big catch with a J tube is the one hour reload time.  Yes you can luck out and get 1.5 hrs and yes they relight super easy when hot.... But your still messing with a fire quite often.
It does become a habit, to note the time and plan on a trip out to feed the dragon.  Not really a big deal.

Now that the new Batchbox Dragon is up and running... OMG!   Why did I stall all these years in building these!  
No comparison! Hands down the batchbox is superior in every way.  
This morning it is 13 F outside,   The studio was 51 F at 5:30 when I got up, now 3 hours later its a whooping 14 F outside and the plastic studio is 48 F
The J tube would have been 40 F or so at 5:30 and 3 hrs later it would have been 37 F and falling steadily.

So what makes this batch so much better than the J tube it replaced ?
To start, I have more brickwork than before. My barrel with the J had a thick cob covering. It was great, held heat, you could lay your hands or body up against it and not get burnt just soak up the heat!
My batch has the original brick base that the J tube was made from. All filled in with cob.
The new batch sits on top of that.  The batch firebox is made from heavy firebrick, surrounded by insulated firebricks and then covered by red clay bricks.
With the heavy steel door and the insulated bricks that fire box is one hot puppy.  I encased 3/4 of my barrel with red brick backed with cob.  
That is quite a bit more mass than I had with the J plus the fact that the fire box is insulated and closed off with a door means I can easily go 2.5 hrs before needing to check the fire.
I had always heard that a 6" batch burned around an hour or so... with my J going almost that long I thought why bother?   Well let me tell you that its true. The load of wood might be burned into coals in an hour or so  ... but that glowing pile of coals will be there for a long time!

Another difference "so far" is exhaust stack temp.  I use a candy thermometer inserted directly into the stack after it comes out of the mass. We call this a T&G Dragon breath monitor.
My J tube after it was running for a few hrs would get exhaust stack temps of 250 F to 350 F    Recommended  running temp is 200 F   Minimum is 140 F  
So far the hottest my batch has gotten the exhaust is barely 145 F that,s hours later that it might get that high and promptly cool off as soon as the fire coals out.
I  still have moisture that I am drying out and these temps may rise as the water evaporates ...  Or this batch and mass are absorbing the massive heat that this puts out and is keeping it & not sending it up the chimney!   Time will tell!

Of course another benny to a batch, is larger wood can be burnt.  It lays horizontal so it is much more conventional than a J.  
One particularity of a batch is it needs air space on both ends of the wood.   The secondary air stub creates an "end iron" to keep wood off the back wall but you must leave air space on the door side as well.
This mean a 6" batch with an 18" firebox really needs 14-15" wood although longer can be used at times.   My 7" batch box in the auto shop is 20" long it is much more forgiving on long wood.
I discovered a specification variance on batchbox's that Peter Berg has approved.  
The only spec on a batch that can be safely changed "by a few inch's" is the length of the firebox.  Had I know this ahead of time I would have increased my 6" by 2 inch's or so!

One issue with building these stoves is the metal work involved. This is more than the average person feel's comfortable doing on their own.
To make this more available to the average permie.   I am starting a rocket stove store.  It will be called Dragon Technology. It is not online yet.
I have secondary air tubes built and available for sale now. I am also making all steel doors for batch's as well.  Matt at Walker stoves will be reviewing a door on line .
I also hope to offer superwool , T&G monitors , Ceramic boards, Bypass  gates and anything else that builder's are looking for.
I want to make batchbox's available to all.


So I am now a convert!   These batchbox's  rock!   Our fellow rocket scientist Satmax has been telling us this for several years now...
He is completely correct! I wish I had taken his advice years ago!











20200913_122456.jpg
Our beloved 8" J tube R.I.P.
Our beloved 8
20201025_100013.jpg
6" Batch brick monolith
6" brick monolith
20201025_095846.jpg
6" batch
6" batch box
 
Rocket Scientist
Posts: 1814
Location: Kaslo, BC
530
building solar woodworking rocket stoves wood heat greening the desert
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That's a marvelous success story Thomas!

Wish you well in the opening of Dragon Technology and making everyone who wants to build a batch box rocket mass heater that much easier to get what they need.

Your online support team is ready to help you out.

 
gardener
Posts: 3471
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft elevation
194
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Well, that's very nice to hear.

The next steps, cooking plate!

Oven, and bells!

145F° maximum, is a smidge low for my liking. But it might go up when drying.  But if you stay around 180F°, that's a nice result. Mine is a bit hot. At about 250F° on the second or third burn.

Huh, looking at the pics again, that barrel top with few more bricks, could be "ovenized"!
 
Satamax Antone
gardener
Posts: 3471
Location: Southern alps, on the French side of the french /italian border 5000ft elevation
194
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Forgot to say. In the midst of winter; Up to minus 15 C° i do three burns at night, maximum.

If minus 20C° I relight it in the morning, before going to work.

For the moment, i do one or two. There is 15cm of snow 500 meters further up. None in the village so far.
 
Posts: 54
Location: Northern Ca
23
4
duck forest garden bike bee rocket stoves greening the desert
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Great write up Thomas!

In summary:

Pros:
Longer time window for reloading batch box
Accepts larger wood
You also mention lower stack temperatures, but I'm not fully convinced that this is a J tube vs. Batch box thing or simply a difference in your two builds and the amount of mass used. I don't see why a J tube would necessarily send more heat up the stack all else being equal.

Cons:
Metal working needed for door and and secondary air supply.

I'm curious what you think the difference is in terms of fuel consumption, if any. Has the batch box been going through more wood?

Excited to hear more about the doors when they are ready. I've already had someone ask me about a door.
 
thomas rubino
master rocket scientist
Posts: 6753
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
3630
cat pig rocket stoves
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Hi Luke;
Thank you!
I'm not sure about wood use yet.  I really won't know for sure until spring. No extra that I've noticed so probably about the same.
I expect my stack temperature  to rise over the coming weeks.

Working on the doors and all the other things as much as I can.
Matt's door is nearly complete.
As soon as I get that sent off , I'll be starting on the next.
I do have secondary tubes ready to go.
 
Rusticator
Posts: 9230
Location: Missouri Ozarks
4990
7
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
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I'm very curious to know the results with these, Thomas. Particularly the 6" batch, as well its footprint. I showed these to John, as an example of how little floorspace the vertical rmh needs, and he was impressed.
 
thomas rubino
master rocket scientist
Posts: 6753
Location: latitude 47 N.W. montana zone 6A
3630
cat pig rocket stoves
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Hi Carla;
That particular stove (studio Dragon) has a 12'  ducted bench that you cannot see.
The shop dragon has a much smaller footprint.

A bell can be almost any shape to fit your space.
Squares and rectangles are the most common, but tall and thin or short and squat work as well.
Bring him to Montana, between here and Wheatonville we will show him all types and styles of working RMHs.
Well depending on the month they might not be working...

Soon in just a few years that new liberator stove will be moving to his workshop!
 
Carla Burke
Rusticator
Posts: 9230
Location: Missouri Ozarks
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Oh, ok! I still like them, both! I'm going to have to work on making that trip happen!
 
I didn't like the taste of tongue and it didn't like the taste of me. I will now try this tiny ad:
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
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