$$$ efficient conversion of a monoculture to a food forest

Hi all,

slowly I am getting hang to this forum and the replies are way better quality than in many other "smacktalk" forums.

As I posted already in my introduction, since I met my husband Will I converted from a rice farmer's daughter into a sophisticated Aquaponics farmer plus he had all time to teach me and my nephews a lot about smart farming (permaculture, food jungles) and gave me a great budget for ordering fruit tree seeds from all around the world.

Long we were arguing why he wants to buy a by monoculture destroyed land with 4500 rubber trees, but as he started to go into aggressive negotiations with the owner who is running broke and he has the price down to almost the half.
And I finally understood where he was focusing on.
Mainly having mulch in abundance by chopping all the rubber trees to revive the land became clear to me.

But as he smarted me up over the years I also did my homework and I have now my mind sometimes going my own way.

Instead of chopping all the rubber trees, it would be in my opinion better leaving a major part for the first 3-4 years making only space for our worldwide fruit tree collection and using the rest of the rubber trees as a trellis for Passion fruits.
approx 20 acre could be "saved" this way and slowly smothered by the vines plus providing a great cash flow of Passion fruits.

Off cause I would have to give them a good start with proper fertilized plant holes and may be planting a ground cover with legumes but I see in this idea a kind of natural conversion from monoculture to food forest even using an uncommon pioneer plant.

We will need time to slowly change the rubber orchard as 29 acre can't be done in one year but I have a feeling that this would be a great win - win situation.

Passion fruits are relatively short lived and if they have finally killed the rubber trees, we have reached our target by having even a better mulch mixture than only chopping and shredding the rubber trees.

Before I confront Will with this crazy idea I would like to ask around here how do you think about this?

Cheers,

Srikham

I don't have experience converting a large property on that scale.  However, I have seen how rubber trees in their native environment grow and are harvested.  I think that you have the correct instinct that at least a portion of these trees can be incorporated into a productive polyculture. I have toured sustainbale rubber harvesting operation in Acre, Brazil, and the rubber trees grew surrounded by much taller trees, vines, and smaller bushes and plants.

Maybe draw a plan of your ideal mix of plants, and see how the rubbers trees fit in.

Thanks Mk Neal,

for my Will and myself a Monoculture is an absolute No Go and here in Thailand the rubber prices are less that the harvest costs.
4500 trees cover the entire 29 acres which could provide so much more biodiversity.

Because of the fact, that these trees are 7-10 years old we not want just chop them and making wood chips out of them.
Another aspect is, if the Passion fruits reach the age we can chop all together, and I know my Will will build another "Monsterchipper" (see my other post) we can easy feed the whole lot in one go into it.
So even the wood chips would be a mix of passion Fruit vine and rubber tree chips which is another advantage in my opinion.

It came in my mind to eliminate or smother them slowly and have a good harvest of Passionfruits for at least 3 years.

Beside this we will plant our fruit tree collection in-between well out of range of the vines and just cutting the rubber trees to make space for the individual fruit trees, but keep the rest of the rubber trees as a kind of pioneer planting until the fruit trees
out-shade them. (some specimens will grow up to 50m which will build the Empress Canopy every here and there.)

My thinking was to make it a bit more sensible conversion from orchard to permaforest.

Sure is we wouldn't take over the rubber farming business.

Target is set:
end of 2021 and I am still in my Backyard of our Village house keeping the trees collection growing in pots with great success.
These trees will be sure 3 meter (See pics below) when the time is due and by then I have "picked a lot more brains" in this exceptional informative forum.

Cheers

Srikham

Before you make too many plans.  It sounds like sitting down and discussing your vision and your holistic goals for your family, your land and your community is a must.  From here you can be better prepared to bounce all these ideas off your solid vision.

Check out holistic goal setting online or you can see my book The Permaculture Market Garden for a step-by-step process.

Zach

For more see www.ecosystemsolutioninstitute.com

Cheers Zach,

I have one rule that went always well.

Do not buy expensive guidelines that are ending in a book shelf because they are not tailor-made to my thoughts.

I am a person that is a born farmer who uses common sense and pairs this with asking asking asking, because it is more likely you get somebody who has done it and been there in detail.

To our "many" Plans,
water has priority and my husband will drive the excavator making swales and ponds.  
Lucky he is from East Frisia born right behind the dikes of the North Sea so handling water is his life.

I have to get rid of the Rubber trees, that is my only plan. And I want to make the most out of that plan therefore I am asking here and don't buy books.

But anyway thanks for your offer.

Srikham

Srikham,

I really don't think Zach was forcing his book on you especially with his preface to look the information up online before he even mentioned his book. I also don't understand labeling the book as expensive. I would suggest you relook at Zach's post about holistic planning.

I personally don't cut down trees until I have a need for the space they occupy, regardless of whether or not I particularly like the tree. I have seen firsthand people despite advice to the contrary clear land that they didn't need right then, it usually ends up a mess because it isn't a priority to complete or maintain until the land is needed.

Sorry if it came up as rude, it was not meant to be like that.

I had a few run ins in other forums with spammer who use such forums in the web to sell god and the world or even send some dubious companies which battered me with the same offer on and on.
This is the last Forum left on my Favorites and I get here a lot of good help and info and so I just make clear I am not interested buying anything.

Yes John,
this was my question. I do not want to cut down these Rubber Trees beside the spaces I really need.
Beside the fact that we are talking 4500 Rubber trees that are sure no benefit as a Monoculture, they still are for something good as you see it too.

But I want at least use them as living trellises growing Passion fruits (and may be other Vines) into them until they naturally giving up their ghost.

If that happens in 3 years OK and if they can stand the choking and grow further I will use them again and only take out what I can replant with another tree or plots for Pasture, animal Food etc.

But all on demand when the time is due.

Cheers John

and sorry to Zach if I came over a bit "bitchy" how is the saying. Burned child fears the fire and I hope for understanding me too.

Welcome Srikham.  It does sound like you have a plan and do realize that it's more realistic to handle an acre at a time.  I'm pretty much a hands-on gardener and am extremely lucky to have grown up watching my grandparents garden.  I'm also a voracious reader and before the internet was widely available I'd pick up just about every magazine and library book I could find on the subject.  Some were of more interest and practical use than others and I gleaned a bit of info from each.  

When I started out I would get a bit annoyed by the mention of plants that wouldn't tolerate the growing zone I lived in but quickly learned to adapt my thinking to embrace the concepts the author was conveying.  For instance I've became quite enamored with Charles Dowding's no-dig approach although he lives in a warmer climate than I do.  I can still use his techniques but have to remember to adjust planting and harvesting dates to my climate.

Now I'm a bit more particular about what I buy but I find the recommendations here are generally good as most forum members have the same interests in regards to food forests and embracing permaculture.  I know if I ask a question on here, I'll get answers that are relevant and some that expand my way of thinking.  I don't know how widely available libraries are in your part of the world, but that's a great way to see if a book is worthy of purchase.  If Kindle is available in your country, they also offer samples of some of their offerings so you can get an idea of whether or not it's worth the purchase for you.  I have purchased digital and physical copies of books based solely on sample chapters.  

Hi Michelle,

the most I have got also from my Family and the works and duties I had already as child after school.
But all was traditional and local stuff.

Now where the www offers an abundance of different seeds this knowledge isn't present and therefore Forums are a real booster. There is always a member or two who have a specific plant in his/her backyard or runs a successful permaculture forest.
Also a lot learning is when a member pm you and ask for a seed that is locally.

There was in another forum a little girl from Haiti who asked me via pm for a Durian seed and as my nephews and neighbors devoured all the Durians breeds I could get hold on, we had 7 different Durian and 4 Jackfruit specimens in the envelope.
She was over the moon and in return we have received some seeds I still don't have any idea what fruit they are.
I planted them and almost all came.

Learning never stops and all beside the local knowledge came from people in worldwide Forums.  
Off cause I peek here and there in some Videos, but most of them simply are not or only partial applicable with our climate, our soil or rainfall and so will be books and magazines.