• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • Timothy Norton
  • paul wheaton
  • Jay Angler
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Anne Miller
  • Tereza Okava
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
gardeners:
  • M Ljin
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Megan Palmer

Garlic, shallots, Egyptian onions and bed rotation

 
Posts: 19
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I have a bed that I grow garlic in. It is outside the fenced in area because I have found that garlic is less prone to getting eaten by woodchucks. I just read however that you shouldn't plant garlic in the same bed two years in a row. I am not sure if that means I need to create more beds than I had planned and what else should I grow in these beds ? I have found that woodchucks will even eat the leaves off of butternut squash plants.

I also grow alot of Egyptian onions which helps create partial shade. I almost use it like a cover crop but it is changing the nature of my soil ?

The same bed rotation advice also seems to apply to shallots. Can I remedy some of that by adding stuff to the soil in the fall such as additional compost, bone meal etc ?  Maybe I could move some soil out of one bed into another and then add additional compost or swap a wheelbarrow full of soil in from a different bed ?  
 
Posts: 105
Location: Helena, MT zone 4
9
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have found after a few years of growing Egyptian walking onions in the same bed that the density of bulb clusters has slowly diminished. I dug the remainder and am moving them to a different bed(s) . Yes, I personally would add some amendments to the soil if you are replanting your alliums. I am tempted to create a new row of walking onions in a couple of different beds as well as growing them under/near fruit trees. Depends on my time and energy this fall. The original walking onion bed grew densely enough to choke out most grass and whitetop(Cardaria). That is no longer the case . I have not amended that bed at all in the last few years.
 
Larz Giles
Posts: 19
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have more Egyptian onions than anyone can imagine. They help created partial shade and cover for other plants. I rip tons of them out all the time to make room for other stuff. When we go to a thai restaurant, I put a bunch in a giant 13 gallon bag which is very easy to fill and I give them to the restaurant. I guess they are like a green manure type thing but they are the easiest thing to grow that I have ever seen and they do help keep out grass also.

I must have a 200 or 300 square feet of beds and easily half the beds are covered with these onions. They make my garden area look green and lush but I hardly eat them or do anything with them. I just try to keep them thinned out but they always keep spreading. They come up very early in the spring, probably by march they are already decent in size so when it's time to plant spinach or other things you can get some partial shade out of them
 
gardener
Posts: 1919
Location: N. California
912
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm not an expert. I have a bed I use primarily for onions and garlic, because they take such a long time to grow.  I always plug other stuff in where there's space. Monoculture attracts pests and disease. Thought I have read garlic doesn't do well sharing it's space.  I grow borage, spinach, and strawberries with the onions and garlic.  I never have any problems.  I do add compost every planting season.  
It's my understanding (remember not an expert) rotating crops is primarily for large monoculture farms. If you have the space rotate.  For a lot of us it's completely impractical.  I grow a little of everything in all my beds, so there's no way to rotate.  I add a new layer of compost each growing season, which is spring and fall for me. I'm lucky enough to be able to grow year round.  I have very little pest problems, no disease, and get great production.  Each year has its challenges, but my experience is I haven't had any ill effects from not rotating crops.  
I say grow what you want where you want. Throw in some other veggies, and flowers, maybe add some compost and and call it good.
Good luck to you. Happy gardening
 
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
600
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One of the main reasons is disease prevention, white rot is the classic one here for onions, if you end up with it it is nearly impossible to get rid of.

As an aside I see many people talk about planting borage with... insert other plants here, HOW? it gets over 4 ft tall and just as round it takes over the whole bed!
 
Jen Fulkerson
gardener
Posts: 1919
Location: N. California
912
2
hugelkultur kids cat dog fungi trees books chicken cooking medical herbs ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe it's the weather, or a different type, but my borage gets about 12" tall.  It does spread, but the garlic and onions just push threw the leaves.  You can always trim it back. Especially if you have chickens, they love the leaves.
 
gardener
Posts: 533
Location: WV
177
kids cat foraging food preservation medical herbs seed
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have to agree with Jen as it's pretty much the same way here.  I do try to rotate the tomatoes, peppers and potatoes but I'm always popping plants in between and wherever I have room.  My garlic was a failure this year so moved to a different bed for next year. My onions were one of those crops I planted wherever I had the space and they did better in some beds than others.
 
pollinator
Posts: 97
Location: 3,000 ft up in the mountains of the Mid Atlantic, USA
49
trees books cooking ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jen Fulkerson wrote:

It's my understanding (remember not an expert) rotating crops is primarily for large monoculture farms. If you have the space rotate.  For a lot of us it's completely impractical.  I grow a little of everything in all my beds, so there's no way to rotate.  I add a new layer of compost each growing season, which is spring and fall for me. I'm lucky enough to be able to grow year round.  I have very little pest problems, no disease, and get great production.  Each year has its challenges, but my experience is I haven't had any ill effects from not rotating crops.  
I say grow what you want where you want. Throw in some other veggies, and flowers, maybe add some compost and and call it good. Happy gardening



"rotating crops...completely impractical"

Can I just say you made my day.

With a vast number of small beds in our newly enlarged, intensively planted garden this year, keeping track of what I planted, what I transplanted, what I replanted due to seed (grower?!) failure, keeping my one or four season seed/plant locations correctly tracked was making me dizzy. Was already dreading figuring out correct plant family rotation next year--and then keeping that record up for the supposed 3 year rotation that is needed. Yeesh.  A burden off my shoulders, and a burning question answered--does it really matter unless you are a big time farmer. thanks!
 
Molly Gordon
pollinator
Posts: 97
Location: 3,000 ft up in the mountains of the Mid Atlantic, USA
49
trees books cooking ungarbage
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
And to Skandi Rogers' point. Yes, onions are the one exception I would actually make to rotating a crop. I've not had a problem with pests in them yet, but I'm successfully harvesting healthy tops and bottoms out of the same bed over a one+ year period, so probably on a thin line with them already.
 
No thanks. We have all the government we need. This tiny ad would like you to leave now:
montana community seeking 20 people who are gardeners or want to be gardeners
https://permies.com/t/359868/montana-community-seeking-people-gardeners
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic