• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

Insulation Foam in Soil

 
Posts: 2
5
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello, my partner and I recently purchased our dream 5-acre property in the high desert of New Mexico. Today I was working in the area we are planning to turn into our garden and found a large amount of insulation foam debris embedded in the soil. It is localized to a fairly small, roughly 6' x 8' location and seems to penetrate about a foot into the soil. The foam is pretty finely broken up and I can't see any way to isolate it from the soil. Furthermore, a small amount of foam on the surface has been blown around by the wind to cover a wider area. The contaminated spot had previously been home to a hot tub on a wooden platform that was torn down a few months ago -- I assume that this is from where the foam originated rather than as, say, a misguided soil amendment. I take the risk of asbestos to be fairly low as the house was built in the 90s long after asbestos was phased out, but out of an abundance of caution ordered a test kit anyway.

I still want to go forward with using this site as a garden. My assumption is that the only solution to this is to excavate the contaminated area and replace it with uncontaminated soil. How concerned do I need to be about capturing and removing all of the debris? I hate the idea of putting soil in a landfill but I also am not too keen on tucking this away on a corner of our land and letting it continue to be tossed around by the wind. Should I bag it and take it to the dump?



 
gardener
Posts: 1251
Location: North Carolina zone 7
446
5
hugelkultur forest garden fungi foraging ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Chris and welcome to Permies, we’re thrilled that you’re here!
I had a similar issue awhile back. I had planned to pick out pieces as I went but couldn’t do it; I had to get rid of it all. My conscience wouldn’t let me plant anything there. Luckily, I had a rock classifier I used for gold panning. It’s a perfect fit for any five gallon bucket. I scooped and sifted all of it. The dirt went into the bucket while the garbage was sifted out. It didn’t take that long and I was happy it was finished.
 
pollinator
Posts: 424
162
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hmm... Just a thought, maybe a really lousy idea: How about making a nice, hot (very hot) bonfire, and then shovel the most contaminated soil a little at a time on top of it, being careful not to put so much at once as to smother the fire. I have no idea what kind of gick that foam is made from, and maybe it would still release nasties, even with a really hot fire. Also, don't know if you can spare the fuel for a big bonfire just for this. If it was doable and wouldn't contaminate the air too much, it would save you the trouble of taking a load of soil to the landfill, and if it burned away all the nasty stuff, that would also mean less nasty stuff in the world compared to shoving it in a landfill someplace

Again, maybe a terrible idea. Please don't do it without prior research.
 
steward and tree herder
Posts: 8375
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
3972
4
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Difficult to tell from the pictures, but I suspect it is probably polyurethane foam insulation. This is basically the "squirty foam" that builders use for sealing large gaps, and is used in insulation boards, freezers etc. It's not very nice in production but pretty inert once fully cured.

I wouldn't burn any plastic unless I was sure it wouldn't give off nasty fumes. Polyurethane is one that does emit really toxic fumes if burnt and residue would be even more stuck in the soil, which would be sterilised by the heat. I think Scott's suggestion would be fine if labour intensive. I don't think anything would have leached out of the foam into the soil.
 
Chris Willcox
Posts: 2
5
  • Likes 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the suggestions. Scott got me thinking about panning for gold which lead to me a solution that seems to be working. I half filled a large trash can with water and began slowly pouring the contaminated soil into it. The soil mostly sinks while the foam floats at the top and can be skimmed off periodically. Still labor intensive to be sure but it’s relatively quick and allows me to capture very small pieces of foam.
 
Scott Stiller
gardener
Posts: 1251
Location: North Carolina zone 7
446
5
hugelkultur forest garden fungi foraging ungarbage
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Outstanding idea Chris, thanks for sharing. Now others in the same situation can look here and find solutions!
 
pollinator
Posts: 1165
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
506
6
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A fantastic example of "the problem is the solution"!
The inherent properties of the foam (lightweight/waterproof/trapped cells of gas/buoyant) provide a few different exploits to separate it from the soil.
Floating it out is super, compared to picking or screening, since it doesn't rely on the size of a screen to get the smallest pieces. AND it costs next to nothing, since it uses common things you already have!

I've seen/read about compost screening plants that have a strong fan blowing through center of the trommel screen, to winnow lightweight litter out of the compost (plastic bags, wrappers, styrofoam...)
 
Eino Kenttä
pollinator
Posts: 424
162
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Brilliant!
 
look out! This tiny ad has a whip!
A rocket mass heater is the most sustainable way to heat a conventional home
http://woodheat.net
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic