• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • thomas rubino
  • Bill Crim
  • Kim Goodwin
  • Joylynn Hardesty
gardeners:
  • Amit Enventres
  • Mike Jay
  • Dan Boone

spider nest  RSS feed

 
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I must confess, I've allowed my garage to turn into a cluttered mess and Brown Recluse Spiders have set up an intentional community out there! I've killed more than 30 of them in the last year. I've actually stopped counting, but for a couple of months, I'd see one practically every other day.

Well, yesterday I went out there to get a cardboard box (a box that I had set aside just a couple of weeks ago). Well, Mrs. Fiddleback (common name for recluse spiders) had set up a home on the box for her young-uns. I killed her immediately (you can see her leg hanging there) and then I realized there might be eggs underneath where she was sitting. So I invaded her "nest" and found the eggs.

I had no idea this type of spider made "egg pads", not egg sacs, like most spiders do. My husband aka SpiderDan (see 3rd pic) didn't know it either, and he gets into attics and crawlspaces all the time because of his job. Needless to say, he was glad to find out so he knows what to look for.
reclusenest.jpg
[Thumbnail for reclusenest.jpg]
eggsrecluse.jpg
[Thumbnail for eggsrecluse.jpg]
tarantulaDan.jpg
[Thumbnail for tarantulaDan.jpg]
 
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
ew, he can have them
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I've found that it pays to discern the good spiders from the bad ones. As child, I had an irrational fear of spiders because of the way my older sister would act when she saw one. Shortly after I moved to Okla. my husband's sister died. The tarantula in the picture was her pet, so we adopted her. Living with that spider got me over my fear of them. That tarantula was in her mid 20's when she died.

Taking up gardening taught me to how to I.D. spiders and life with dh sure helped. He will not kill a spider if it isn't a black widow or a recluse. The other spiders get put outside when we find them in the house! 

Whoever named it the recluse spider really picked the perfect name. Not only is it reclusive by nature, it keeps it's eggs in a very unobtrusive way, especially compared to spiders that make round egg sacs.
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
yeah that is creepy that they make that kind of nest, cause i see those..duh.

but I'm glad that they will run rather than stick around if they see people..right..as i dont' want to get bit.

i'm not so afraid of spiders as i was as a child..the big creepy hairy ones bother me..or the big black ones..i guess big ones..

i don't kill spiders unless they are where i can't get them outside..without taking them down..and if they are outside they are fine..those little jumpers live in my inside windows without worry
 
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
that spider was 20 years old!!! I didnt' know that!
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yep, she was at least 25. Dh insists that she was pushing 30, but we really don't know for sure. He swears she was about 20 when we got her, and she lived for another 9 - 10 years in our care.

All info that I can find says the females live (on average) 25 years in managed care. I suppose it's possible that she made it to 30, but we can't document it. Don't have her birth certificate! Er...or...hatching certificate! 
 
                                        
Posts: 33
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
house fires with victims trapped inside - count me in.
Bad guys with guns - no problem.
Accident scenes with body parts scattered about - all in a days work.

But I DON'T DO SPIDERS!
EWWW!
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's the best spider tip I can give you. The spiders that are out in the open, are most often the good guys. It's the sneaky ones that are usually cause for concern.

The recluse and the black widow have a tendency to avoid open places. I've found and killed probably 20 black widow's over the last 8 years. They almost always had built their webs near a "hidey hole", i.e. a crack in the mortar, overturned flower pots, piles of brush that have sat for a long time, etc.

Learning to i.d. spiders has really helped me cope! An Audobon field guide to insects is a great book to have.
 
Leah Sattler
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am not spider phobic at all but we have tons of blackwidows out here (as well as a goodly number of scorpians) even I often put on some good gloves when I am moving rocks around. something I have been doing alot of lately.  although these widows are significantly smaller then the ones at our old place. I wonder why?
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
Posts: 4437
Location: North Central Michigan
12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
they were waiting for you to move in as a food source, been on a diet !! tee hee..

i should NOT have said that...forgive me.

God please do not pay me back with a spider infestation !!
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, in a way, Brenda may be right about a food source. Our friend caught a black widow
in late spring, kept her in a big jar & fed her for a few months. She did grow fast!

According to my google, they can live up to 3 years & I'd bet that's an average. Perhaps the ones at your old place were older and more established than the ones you are seeing now. I think that spiders who have a "cushy" lifestyle (i.e. in an outbuilding or maybe even rocks around a flowerbed) probably have a better chance at a longer lifespan, vs. the ones that are outdoors. You know what they say...location, location location!

Here's some facts I found at:

http://www.desertusa.com/july97/du_bwindow.html

Black Widow is considered the most venomous spider in North America.

The venom of the black widow spider is 15 times as toxic as the venom of the prairie rattlesnake.

Only the female Black Widow is dangerous to humans; males and juveniles are harmless.

The female Black Widow will, on occasion, kill and eat the male after they mate

More than 35,000 spider species of spiders occur in the World.

About 3,400 species in 64 families are found in North America.


Vital Stats:

Weight: 1 gram.

Length: 1-1.5"

Span: 1-3"

Sexual Maturity: 70-90 days.

Mating Season: Spring

Incubation: 14-30 days

No. of Eggs: 250-700/sac

Birth Interval: 4 to 9 egg sacs/summer

Lifespan: up to 3 years

Typical diet: insects
 
Leah Sattler
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brenda Groth wrote:
they were waiting for you to move in as a food source, been on a diet !! tee hee..

i should NOT have said that...forgive me.

God please do not pay me back with a spider infestation !!



 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Had to resurrect this thread. Today I was in the office of the riding stable, looking through the sweatshirts that we sell. I am very careful when dealing with stuff that's been stored because we have brown recluse spiders around there. I pull out the shirt that I was looking for and immediately notice something on the shirt. So I lay it across a chair back.

Well, there was the little egg pad (see earlier pix in this thread) on the shirt and all these tiny spiders were close by! They must have just hatched, I could see the egg pad was open. Further careful inspection revealed momma nearby, lurking in the folds of the shirt! So I grab a spray bottle of pine sol cleaner & water mix, spray the babies & kill them. I start moving the shirt to get momma, but dang it, she escapes by crawling somewhere into the mechanism of the office chair the shirt was draped over! I sprayed that cleaner all around the chair, but I doubt that I got her. They are a sneaky lot!
 
steward
Posts: 25173
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was once bit by a brown recluse.  I had this hard welt-like-thing on my forearm for six months.

I think the best way to keep brown recluse spiders out is to encourage good spiders.  I encourage wolf spiders and daddy longlegs.
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh, me too, Paul! I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just perplexed about what to do with what seems to be an ever increasing population of those little brown buggers in my garage. I know I need to reduce the clutter & give them less places to hide. I use NO pesticides on my property, but right now, it sure seems like the bad spiders (in the garage anyways) WAY outnumber the good! 
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Meet Wolfgang! A couple of years ago, I took this pic of a beautiful wolf spider. He was doing a Jesus impersonation & walking on the water!    I need more of these big spiders!
wolfspider.jpg
[Thumbnail for wolfspider.jpg]
 
Leah Sattler
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
thats a beauty! I always carefully shuffle the good guys to a safe place when i find them.

my husband pulled a shirt out of the closet last year and then put it on. a few seconds later he says "is there something on my back"?    I don't know what kind it was I hadn't ever seen one before and haven't since but there was a big 'ol yellowish spider on his back. maybe two inch leg span! I'm afraid that one ended up dead
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 25173
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, DE works on spiders too.

I always thought wolf spiders were little spiders that made no web.  They pounce on their prey.  That spider looks way bigger than anything I've called a wolf spider in the past.  I have to admit, that I was told "wolf spider" when I was a kid and haven't really looked it up.

 
Posts: 161
Location: E Washington steppe
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's a great online spider resource provided by Rod Crawford at the Burke Museum, University of Washington:

http://staff.washington.edu/tiso/index.html

I'm currently on a mission to provide Rod with 20 different species of spiders from my little farm near Ritzville, WA in an attempt to help him characterize the spider population in this area.  I think I'm on spider species number six 
Last offering was a black widow, but everything else has been benign.

I read once that a healthy spider population indicates a healthy ecosystem ... in which case this farm is in good shape! 
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm afraid my picture may be making that wolf spider look larger than they are, but they are one of the bigger spiders I see on a regular basis. You are right, Paul, wolf spiders aren't webkeepers and ramble around the garden, pouncing on whatever crosses their path.

A quick look in my Nat'l Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Insects & Spiders shows me 2 types of wolf spiders. The spider in my pic is a Rabid Wolf Spider. They also have a Forest Wolf Spider, which is approx. 1/2" smaller than the Rabid Wolf. Maybe you were seeing the forest variety as a kid.

Thanks for the tip on the DE. Once I get more clutter off the floor in the garage, I will definitely sprinkle the rest of the DE that I have on the floor for a while. That is where I consistently find those dang recluse spiders!
 
Leah Sattler
Posts: 2603
44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
its possible that there are geographically related differences in size also. just like with bears and wolves. I don't see why insects would be any different. different climates might select for generally larger or smaller animals within the species. I have seen some pretty big wolf spiders. we have a lots of jumping spiders also, they are pretty small and are roaming hunters also.
 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was thinking the same thing, Leah! I would think a longer growing season might apply to insects as well as plants. My mom always says the fleas in Oklahoma are much larger than the fleas (she remembers) in IL.

If the spiders have a longer season to hunt, I would think they could grow bigger. I just saw a rabid wolf spider a minute ago, and it was a big 'un!
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 25173
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The ones I'm thinking of as wolf spiders and quite small and really fast.  They look like they are really hairy. 

I wonder if there is a site with the top 10 house spiders - I should be able to spot it on something like that and then know what I've been calling a wolf spider all these years.

 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Could they be jumping spiders? From your description, that's what I thought of. Here is a link with pix of various jumping spiders.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-101-s&va=jumping+spider&sz=all
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 25173
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Gwen Lynn wrote:
Could they be jumping spiders? From your description, that's what I thought of. Here is a link with pix of various jumping spiders.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-101-s&va=jumping+spider&sz=all



Yes!  Much closer! 

The ones I think of are really small and woolly.  But are probably of that bunch!

 
Gwen Lynn
Posts: 736
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yep, jumping spiders are fairly small and can definitely have a woolly appearance. For some reason, I'm always seeing them on galvanized metal surfaces. Gates, trash cans, etc. They like to patrol window screens too.

They are excellent little spiders and one of the few that actually uses sight to hunt their prey! They are the Daring Jumping Spiders! LOL! Sounds like an acrobatic super hero troupe from "The Tick" cartoon. 
 
It's just like a fortune cookie, but instead of a cookie, it's pie. And we'll call it ... tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!