experimenting with bamboo - fence and gate to discourage deer

Apr 08, 2022 21:18:49

Last fall I did a serious thinning on my P. dulcis patch and stock-piled many of the culms. My P. nigra patch needed similar treatment. I also had a garden area that needed protection from the deer and bunnies - mostly the deer as they will eat the potato leaves if any of the potatoes there survived our weird weather this year.

Part of the goal was to try different techniques that I could use with bamboo to see how easy they were, practical, and eventually some idea of how long they last.

Step 1
In another project, I had put rebar into the ground, and then slid a much longer dulcis culm over top to get a tall post. I wondered if I could do this to put up supports for a 10' length of fence. I calculated that an upright every 20" should be enough which meant I needed 7 uprights.

Problems: Alas, I grow rocks really well. This makes it really hard to get the rebar in straight or in at all in the case of #6. Let's interrupt building with bamboo to remove a rock which at its extremes was 4 ft by 19" by 15" thick - that's rock drill territory, so Hubby had to turn it into 5 smaller rocks and still needed help getting them to the rock pile.

Apr 08, 2022 21:24:51

In the first photo above, you can see the first 5 rebar stakes fairly nicely in a row. Once I'd filled the big rock hole with punky wood, dirt, a couple of dead chickens, finished compost and some biochar , I installed the last two stakes and carefully drilled holes in an old fence board and slid it down over the rebar. This will help form a base, make it easier to control the grass, and stop the bamboo culm from sliding down into the dirt.

Apr 08, 2022 21:36:25

The culms ended up fairly vertical in the north/south direction, but not so much in the east/west direction. Part of this was the rebar and part of it was the culms weren't straight. Learning to straighten or shape bamboo is something I've seen on youtube, but attempting that is beyond me at this time. I would need to know much more about this material before attempting it. Experts in bamboo use different varieties for different tasks, and I simply don't have that knowledge.

Step 2
I wanted to see if I could use the smaller, more flexible P. nigra culms to build the bottom of fence like a "wattle". Wattle fence panels are frequently made with coppiced hazel whips. I had watched an instructional video on the process, but it left out soooo... many details that would have been useful.

I wouldn't say the results I accomplished are "pretty". The bamboo is *very* slippery. I used vice-grips to help me twist the culm which is required to turn the corner. The videos were quite clear on the importance of that.

I do feel that this short section of wattle will keep the bunnies out. I intentionally left the tiny branches sticking out in places to be pokey to assist in that. The slipperiness of the bamboo, meant that the short section had a tendency to spread higher, rather than staying compact.

Apr 08, 2022 21:42:18

Step 3
Having lost so much time due to the "rock problem", I decided to try a different technique for higher up where deer exclusion was the goal. I tied on a horizontal culm at the very top, securing it to each upright.

I then tied pieces of bamboo vertically to the horizontal top bar and half-way down. The bottom end is trapped in the wattle. I needed different numbers of uprights in different sections due to the wonky bamboo verticals. I think it gives it interest, but more important is that I not block all the sun through the fence, but do block the deer!

At this point, I consider the "fence" portion done - next on to building a gate!

Apr 08, 2022 21:54:17

The gate involved more actual "wood working" if you can call it that - bamboo is a grass, not a tree!

I had no place to work outside due to the weather, so my living room floor was it.

I had decided to try to use rebar to support the bottom north side of the gate. The gate will open at the south side and be closed against the side of a pallet compost cube.

Again, the bottom had to be bunny-proof, so I decided to try to install horizontal pieces of bamboo for the bottom ~2' of the gate. Each piece of bamboo is a slightly different diameter, and each end is also - the culms are thicker at the bottom and taper towards the top. Thus the holes I had to drill to hole the horizontal pieces were all different sizes. I drilled a series of hold 1 1/2 " apart and then adjusted the holes larger as I fit in each piece.

I *really* like the look of this, but there are two problems - the further up I got, the harder to get all the pieces lined up and into the holes without one piece somewhere falling apart. I debated trying to fix the horizontal pieces, and then bend each piece of bamboo enough to pop them into the holes, but I suspect that would be harder than it sounds. If I had a proper work bench that was large enough to hold the gate firmly clamped to it, I might try that in the future, but not this time.

Here are pictures of the variety of tools I used for gate building, and the horizontal section complete:

Apr 08, 2022 22:00:47

I know from past experience that it's *really* important to have a diagonal support that goes from high up on the hinge side, to down lower on the non-hinge side of a gate to stop it drooping over time and loosing "square". The piece of carboard in the picture in the last post was my "Charlie Brown Squaring Tool". It didn't have to be perfect, and it wouldn't be with the verticals not straight, so I just needed it to be "good enough".

However, fitting that single diagonal culm took most of an afternoon.
1. I just did not have good tools to do the job.
2. I had to fit it in 3 dimensions at once, and if I changed one end, it changed the fit at the other.
3. I just plain don't have the experience to do it easily.

Thankfully, "good enough" is good enough!!!

Apr 08, 2022 22:06:22

Time pressure was getting to me again. I needed this done due to other important tasks needing attention, and because I needed my living room floor back.

I had always wondered if I could "weave" bamboo. I had also only ever split bamboo when I split the cross pieces you see on the picture in the last post. Now I'd need to split bamboo into a bunch of narrow pieces. To do proper weaving, you not only need to split it, but I think you either have to thin the nodes, or use a type of bamboo that doesn't have as prominent nodes as P dulcis does. I decided that so long as I could weave enough pieces that it seemed sufficiently solid to do the job I would count it as a success.

Apr 08, 2022 22:26:20

The Finishing Details

With the woven panel screwed into place, I had to hand saw off the bits that stuck out. Weaving has to be done larger to allow for the length the material needs to travel over and under. Since the pieces weren't the same thickness between pieces and within a single piece, I had allowed for that by just enough.

I admit I don't like the look of the woven part nearly as much as the lower part of the gate. However, part of the goal of this project was to try different things, and there may be places where that woven technique would be really useful and I learned through doing.

My final picture for the moment is the gate in position. The rebar "hinge and support" at the bottom worked really well. I used a slippery rope around the fence vertical and the gate vertical in a figure 8 style (similar to the knot you use to lash a tripod, but between only two pieces instead of three) at the top and the upper third and lower third and the gate swings well. This is not a permanent structure, and figuring out how to do temporary things that work is a useful skill. One of the requirements was that I wanted the gate to be easy to open. That is the one detail not yet done. I used a piece of baling twine attached to the compost pallet and tied a bow! I've got a couple ideas floating around in my head, but I've learned to let my creativity/problem-solving brain circuits do their thing. This step is not critical at this time, so I will be patient. I already have a system that will work, but tying the bow is a two handed job, and I'd prefer a one handed latch system.

I'm not convinced the pictures do it justice. In real life this looks like a functional yet whimsical fence and gate - maybe not Vogue quality, but I'm very pleased with the results. Compared to the crappy orange snow fence I had to re-cycle to protect my latest apple tree, this bamboo fence wins hands down!

Apr 11, 2022 05:20:15

Thank you so much for your post, Jay! It's great to have so many photos! I really like the look of the bamboo. I was wondering about the growing of your bamboo patch:do you have trouble containing it? How quickly does it spread? Thank you!

Apr 11, 2022 08:48:57

Jay Angler wrote:Step 3
Having lost so much time due to the "rock problem", I decided to try a different technique for higher up where deer exclusion was the goal. I tied on a horizontal culm at the very top, securing it to each upright.

I then tied pieces of bamboo vertically to the horizontal top bar and half-way down. The bottom end is trapped in the wattle. I needed different numbers of uprights in different sections due to the wonky bamboo verticals. I think it gives it interest, but more important is that I not block all the sun through the fence, but do block the deer!

At this point, I consider the "fence" portion done - next on to building a gate!

This is awesome! I am interested in "I then tied pieces of bamboo vertically to the horizontal top bar and half-way down. "

Out here we have fences that use a twisty bar thing to hold wire in fences, and I wonder if that concept is how you did the half way down part. Basically take a string/twine, attach one end say left upright, then twist/twine it loosely together all the way to the right side upright, then when you want to insert an upright you just open up a bit of the twist and insert the upright piece in. Not sure if I am describing it good enough.
Or did you actually tie them in? Either way this is a great idea! How long does the bamboo grow until you can harvest it?

Sandy

edit - I finally found what those twisty things are called, ( it is so hard to find something when you don't know what it is called!) they are FENCE STAYS!

Apr 11, 2022 10:12:01

Sandy Smithsson wrote:

Basically take a string/twine, attach one end say left upright, then twist/twine it loosely together all the way to the right side upright, then when you want to insert an upright you just open up a bit of the twist and insert the upright piece in. Not sure if I am describing it good enough.

That sounds like a great way to do it Sandy, although I'd have had to twist it in between the vertical posts (about every 20 inches), then go either side of the vertical and twist some more and so on. I did need the uprights well enough captured that a deer wouldn't decide to push them out of the way to make a large enough gap, so I, in fact did tie each one in place. Next time, I'll try your suggestion, as I think I could make it work securely enough and it sounds, if not actually faster, much less fiddly than what I did. I did say this was a project intended to try a variety of ideas and learn new things!

And wrote:

How long does the bamboo grow until you can harvest it?

There are many different types of bamboo, so there is some variability.
1. Generally, they say bamboo culms should be harvested in Aug (our dry month) at 5 years of age. This gives you the best ratio of wall thickness to senescence. However, at the homestead level, that requires marking each bamboo culm every year, managing the patch like a professional woodlot is managed and is just not a happening thing here. Reality is that I have started putting old t-shirt ties of different colours on culms I think would be good raw material, so "green" was 2 years ago and "grey" was last year. Last year wasn't a good bamboo year - weather weirding - so how much you can harvest can be a moving target.
2. My P dulcis patch is in the "little field" where I rotate Khaki Campbell ducks. Due to damage to their housing, last fall they were living further from where I set up their portable runs, and Hubby isn't good at herding them. They'd run into the bamboo, and he couldn't get in to chase them, so I had to go in and clear cut paths for him regardless of the age of the bamboo, but most of it was 4-5 years old or damaged from snow, but doing that has given me enough to do the project in the picture and a few other small projects and there's still leftovers.
3. However, the patch itself has been slowly growing, with me harvesting bits and pieces for over 10 years now. One does have to let it get established, and our wet winters and droughty summers aren't the best for it. The saying goes, "the first year it sleeps, the second year it creeps, the third year it leaps" - mine "creeped" for about 5 years, but it didn't die and it's giving me some good culms now.
4. P dulcis shoots are yummy. That's one of the reasons I chose this variety. Geese like it too... sigh... I have to balance what I harvest to eat vs what I let grow for culms. I *have* to protect the area at the key point from other creatures that agree with the yummy part. Nothing bothers it once the culms are 4 ft tall.

Choosing what type of bamboo and where exactly you put it is critical. In general, it will move towards water, so if you put it on a border with neighbors who irrigate their grass regularly, expect problems! Yes, that happened to a friend - she was on the receiving side of bamboo she did not want. I had seen the plant, and immediately thought, wrong plant, wrong place, so I wasn't at all surprised. Accepting that it does require maintenance is also critical. If a patch gets too thick, it's *really* hard to prune it out selectively. My black bamboo had gotten there despite me trying to keep it under control. I really like its location for beauty and privacy, but I've come to the conclusion it should move. We've been getting more snow recently, and it bends down and blocks the driveway every time our wet snow clings to it!

So there is not simple answer to that question. I did a bunch of research into many varieties before getting the ones I got, but they have turned out to be a great balance between large and small natural diameters. They are great for quick trellis projects ( more ideas here: https://permies.com/t/163796/Ideas-Trellis-Gardening ). The Japanese are experts at finding all sorts of great uses for it, among other cultures as well. There are ways - like digging a ditch or choosing an edible one - to keep it from being invasive, and there are people who plant it in inappropriate places - but I'm personally a fan!

Jay Angler · Apr 13, 2022 10:20:36

This is a bamboo thread here as well and my post at end is how we done our bamboo fence and it's still holding strong. However a few of our oak stakes are now begining to rot in the ground and I had to support one of them with a piece of rebar right next to the support. We will be figuring out a fix this summer for the rotting post. But the bamboo is still very strong. And we also have the high wind effect where this fence is located so the rotting supports is a major concern.

https://permies.com/wiki/170341/Giant-Bamboo-wiki

May 01, 2022 14:37:16

Jay Angler wrote:I know from past experience that it's *really* important to have a diagonal support that goes from high up on the hinge side, to down lower on the non-hinge side of a gate to stop it drooping over time and loosing "square".

Good point...I must include diagonal support!

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