Rake/till away tall grass/roots, or leave grass/mycelium top w/ cardboard and good soil?

The pictures below show the current reality, but how to proceed to use this land?

I was originally going to rake way the previous years of decomposing tall grass in order to lightly till and dig up the roots of the grasses. Then I wouldn't have them as a weed problem when adding soil for growing.

But...

The dead tall grasses are decomposing and have mycelium (I think it's that) in many places. So I am leaning towards not doing my first plan. Instead, I think I should cover the area I want to use with cardboard to preserve the mycelium and create more decomposing organic matter that is already there. Then I will add quality soil above for raised beds, mounds, or hugels as a mix of things in the area for planting into.

There were also worms going back into the soil after I raked a 2ft x 2ft patch of dead tall grasses. More worms visible after digging. The worms don't seem to have an issue with the clay soil, so I presume roots will be ok, apart from over-saturation of water :/

The starwbale method is interesting, as mentioned here: https://permies.com/t/108953/improve-clay-soils-growing-year#891601. I was already going to do this with potatoes soon, using the cut tall grass from last fall that I have lying around. But I will be doing hugels for some plants, raised beds for others like root crops. The straw piles are more for the potatoes only.

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Images of high clay soil:

Digging a hole with a spade shovel to do a jar soil test:



The resulting chunk of soil I pulled out, about 1ft deep:



Another look into the hole:



Moving only a bit of soil, the water is already visible coming into the hole on a day with no rain (but it's the April showers month so the soil is wet through and through when touching it)



There are many worms present in the upper layer:





The top crumbly layer with worms and roots in it:



The mycelium in the dead tall grass decomposition:





Last fall there was one patch with lots or white covering an area when I raked away a patch of dead tall grass that was there from the previous years/years.

Am I right to go with the second option, preserve the mycelium, add cardboard to kill off the grass, and grow on top? Thanks!

Kris said, "The dead tall grasses are decomposing and have mycelium (I think it's that) in many places. So I am leaning towards not doing my first plan.

Kris, welcome to the forum.

I feel you are on the right path.

I would like to suggest wood chips to help you get started.

It is generally recommended to use 6" to 12" of wood chips.

You may have seen these though they may be of interest to others:

https://permies.com/t/65316

https://permies.com/t/173108

https://permies.com/t/177593/practice-planting-wood-chips

https://permies.com/t/140113/wood-chips

Hi Kris! If you can leave the grass in place, that's less work. Though personally I would be inclined to turn the grass and other rough organic matter into that soil, just to help it breathe and drain. And then build beds on top of that.

But a critical question: what kind of grass do you have? Have you successfully smothered it before (even by accident)? The rhizomes of an invasive grass like quackgrass will travel horizontally for a long distance to find a crack it can grow through.

Anne Miller wrote:

Kris said, "The dead tall grasses are decomposing and have mycelium (I think it's that) in many places. So I am leaning towards not doing my first plan.

Kris, welcome to the forum.

I feel you are on the right path.

I would like to suggest wood chips to help you get started.

It is generally recommended to use 6" to 12" of wood chips.

You may have seen these though they may be of interest to others:

https://permies.com/t/65316

https://permies.com/t/173108

https://permies.com/t/177593/practice-planting-wood-chips

https://permies.com/t/140113/wood-chips

Thanks, I did order some BRF/RCW wood chips last week, 5 cubic yards, so that will help some

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Hi Kris! If you can leave the grass in place, that's less work. Though personally I would be inclined to turn the grass and other rough organic matter into that soil, just to help it breathe and drain. And then build beds on top of that.

But a critical question: what kind of grass do you have? Have you successfully smothered it before (even by accident)? The rhizomes of an invasive grass like quackgrass will travel horizontally for a long distance to find a crack it can grow through.

I think I'm going to just leave it, it has some root and worm work to loosen it up those first 2 inches. I'll cover or rake out/pull out some parts and plant some cover crops/green manure for slice and drop mulch to add organic matter. I don't know what the grass is, it gets like 5-6ft tall is all I know, with very small seeds. I'll grow some fast covercrops to outcompete it

I think in part this comes down to what you intend to use the area for.

If an orchard, where you will tolerate some grass, then cardboard and woodchip sounds appropriate. It would shift the balance towards soil that favours fruit trees over grass.

On the other hand, if you want to plant an annual veggie garden, I would consider woodchips to be inappropriate. It takes quite a while for the grass layer to start decomposing, and fresh woodchips are a less than ideal growing medium.

I have done both, and now prefer to start new areas off by tilling. I then maintain them by top dressing with well rotted compost/chicken coop bedding, combined with light hoe work and occasional spot weeding.

Fresh woodchips are reserved for fruit trees and paths.

Michael Cox wrote:I think in part this comes down to what you intend to use the area for.

If an orchard, where you will tolerate some grass, then cardboard and woodchip sounds appropriate. It would shift the balance towards soil that favours fruit trees over grass.

On the other hand, if you want to plant an annual veggie garden, I would consider woodchips to be inappropriate. It takes quite a while for the grass layer to start decomposing, and fresh woodchips are a less than ideal growing medium.

I have done both, and now prefer to start new areas off by tilling. I then maintain them by top dressing with well rotted compost/chicken coop bedding, combined with light hoe work and occasional spot weeding.

Fresh woodchips are reserved for fruit trees and paths.

It's both. Where I will plant veggies, I will have raised beds or a hugels to start, and not directly planting into the native soil. I can till and plant covercrops/greenmanure, but I'm not sure that's the best option as it disturbs the existing work done by roots and worms, and will probably kill worms with the tiller. Some raking out of roots seems better if I don't just try to mow/weed wack and then plant other things that grow faster than the grass to smother them out. The buckwheat grew fast last year where I tilled, but it turned to muddy soft mushy soil after rain came.

I also think tilling will get more water absorbed in the tilled area quicker and just stay in that aerated soil area and make it more muddy, rather than move downhill quicker if left as it is. If anyone has experience or knowledge on this, let me know ;)

Sounds like our soil conditions are quite different. In your place I would test the different options in different areas.

Remember also that "human care" is a legitimate consideration in permaculture. You are entitled to use a less than perfect solution if that solution works better for you (eg less effort, lets you use power tools etc...). Worms are part of an active ecosystem. Killing a few by tilling will have little overall impact, as the population will quickly recover PROVIDED the ecosystem is healthy.