Coyote Management

I live in Georgia and we have a heap of coyotes. I have read about how the native americans were able to train them to heard buffalo and what not. And was wonding if there was someway
you could use coyotes to your benefit in a similar manner or at least find someway to cohabitate with them. Joel Salatin would often make "bait" somewhere else so that they would be distracted from
his chickens. I like that approach, but I figured since they are such a smart animal if there was some way to train them to be an asset on the farm.

I think it's a really interesting idea. Though I think one might really need to "go native" to be in tune enough with the coyote to work with them. Native Americans lived symbiotically with wolves, bison, etc for thousands of years. It was more a matter of working with the natural tendencies of the animal rather than literally "training" it. Apparently people worked in concert with wolves to hunt bison, etc, though I had not heard the same of coyotes. It would be amazing to get to that point somehow. In any case I think one needs to be willing to be trained by the coyote as much as expecting to train them.

"all that's left now of the old days ... damned old coyotes and me"

Hu yip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPl6-dbIkiU

Sorry to interject, but I thought you might appreciate that.
W

Where do you think we got the first dogs? If we can tame wolves, surely we can train coyotes.

A dog is not simply a trained wolf, in my opinion. A dog is an animal which has been domesticated over many generations. I don't think scott is talking about domesticating the coyotes, though I may be wrong.

I completely agree, I just wanted to point out that it's been done before by our ancestors. It would be challenging for us "modern" humans to do I think, but I beleive if we accept our role in nature, we can live in symbiosis with many animals. "much we once had is now lost. For there is none now who remember"

Shawn Harper wrote: I beleive if we accept our role in nature, we can live in symbiosis with many animals.

I agree.

One interesting idea that's sort of along this line... it is possible to bait coyotes with chicken / lamb (whatever you are trying to protect) laced with an 'averse agent' that makes them sick. The coyote is 'trained' or conditioned to avoid that prey item in the future....kind of like tequila except I think they use lithium chloride or something...

The conditioned coyotes then work for you by holding the territory and excluding non-conditioned coyotes..(ie it's counterproductive to be shooting them...)

I think results have been mixed, and I don't know how often you have to repeat. Might be worth asking google.

I've had great luck with a guard llama and mixed 'flerd' so far, knock on wood....

I beleive if we accept our role in nature, we can live in symbiosis with many animals.

I also agree with this. However, much of modern mankind has been instilled with an egotistical philosophy:
"He created us in His image, and He gave us dominion over all of the other animals."

This creates an illusion of near godliness. This illusion has led 'us' into a downward spiraling path of destruction ever since. If 'we' put ourselves on a par with god, above all other creatures, 'we' can justify doing anything we damned well please. The results of this belief has not been pretty to the other creatures.

I have put off getting chickens cause of the coyotes and also our cats, which kill birds regularly

The coyote around here are scary. They come right up behind the barn. So far, they have stayed out of the yard. Earlier this summer they killed our best Cat Fluffy. He was a great cat and we miss him greatly. He had 8 good years though and he was a brave and reckless guy and so he was lucky to live 8 years. But - it ticks me off that the coyote killed Fluffy when they have all the rabbits and other wild things to eat up.

We have three boys and they, and any other male around, regularly pee around the perimeter of the main house and barn. I don't know if it works but so far we do not find coyote poop in those areas. When we know they are close, we alternate outside flood lights to keep them away from the barn. At night we lock our last Cat Pirate in the barn and lock the 2 dogs up in a fenced yard too. We have motion lights behind the barn to scare coyote away from behind it and it works to keep them away from right close but we find scat on the trails behind the barn.

There is no one around here to shoot them and besides that, I don't think that would work long term. We know neighbors who set out poison but I don't think that is right.
Another neighbor cuts up bars of soap and throws the chunks on the trails behind her place. I don't think that works but at least she feels better.

So - we do the best we can and hope they don't eat the dogs and Pirate Cat.

I am being sarcastic , but enlisting the help of coyotes in a permaculture setting just sounds funny. Perhaps that company "ACME" has some products you could use in this endeavour. Domestic dogs are not evolved from modern wolves. They have a common ancestor and are quite different beasts. I owned a wolf hybrid dog - Malamute / wolf mix. She was a different beast for sure. One night in Northern Arizona we were camping and she was tethered in our camp while we slept. The coyotes were yipping and this called to her pack nature and she chewed the tether and got loose. She ran off to be with the coyotes and they killed and ate her. Sorry to bring up a morbid tale such as this. I don't believe you can train a coyote to assist us at all nor do I believe they were trained to herd buffalo. The native peoples dogs hybridized with coyote. There are coyote/ dog hybrids in Navajo land and all over Northern AZ. The place in permie world for coyote in my view is as wild beasts whose place is in the wild not as our domestic freinds. I love to hear them outside at night . As Dracula said " Children of the Night , they make such sweet music". Keeping good edge effect and fostering prey animals for them is as good as it gets I think. When we encroach on them and leave them no choice , they will make a meal out of our pets. We have alot of coyotes here and I have never had one take a chicken , although coons and possums have. There are rabbits , moles , mice , birds , etc in the edge areas. They kill fawns in the spring . Also , causing them to lose fear of humans by familiarity puts children and domestic animals in more danger. Wild dogs and toddlers at zoos for instance. Donkeys in your pasture will protect kid goats and calves . Last resort - .223 !

Shawn Harper wrote:I completely agree, I just wanted to point out that it's been done before by our ancestors. It would be challenging for us "modern" humans to do I think, but I beleive if we accept our role in nature, we can live in symbiosis with many animals. "much we once had is now lost. For there is none now who remember"

not just your opinion, fact. Domestic dogs have evolved with man for 100,000 years. There is quite a connection with them - they gaze at you. Know any other animals that do that? I can recommend the book inside of a dog by horowitz for some really good insight into our relationship.

Yep, trying to domesticate a coyote, will get someone hurt. They are what they are, and they are a wild animal. Coyotes dont act with malice. They eat a cat because they are hungry, and domestic cat tastes ok for as easy as they are to catch.

They dont eat my chickens cuz they hate them, and if i have to shoot one, its not cuz i hate them, either.

should be possible in a desert.

if you can provide water, and a sonic blaster....

We have a lot of coyote in our neck of the woods too. Listening to them at night while they're on the chase is both sad & exhilarating at the same time. Sad that a beautiful animal is being hunted, yet exhilarating to listen to the relay race. It's easy to tell when one coyote stops and another picks up to continue the chase. I just wish they could live veggie style.

The coyote yapping has got to be the funniest, craziest sounds I've yet to hear in the woods. We keep our outdoor dog kenneled at night for his own protection and the young coyotes serenade him quite often. We laugh so hard at their attempts to serenade our disinterested dog. They sound awful! I bet a an alien being interrogated by the C.I.A. would sound prettier, yet close to how these sound. Anyone who declares their songs to be pretty, must be off their rockers. But I believe them. Perhaps their coyote have better singing teachers, in other parts of the world.

When the wild hare and squirrel population dwindle down, the coyote move on. It's been a year now since our old dog has been serenaded, let's hope they forget all about him. The quiet is unbelievably nice.

What type of "medicine" does one use on the chicken to make the coyote sick if he eats it? I suppose it would work on fox and bobcat as well? Do share, explain more please.