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input in pseudo grains

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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I'm interested in growing pseudograins, namely amaranth, quinoa, and buckwheat. I was hoping to get input on others who have grown these or other pseudo grains. What are your experiences? What were your yields? Any input is appreciated. Thank you!

Jordan Lowery

pollinator

Posts: 1528

Location: zone 7

posted 12 years ago

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Amaranth grows well for me. It's my favorite early pioneer plant. Thick growth, lots of biomass, bee food, insect attractor, bird attractor, calcium accumulator, deep clay breaking tap roots. Oh yea it's food! The hardest part is processing. You'll want to build a winnow machine or get/make a good winnow basket. The stalks stay up for a while after frost providing poles for snowpeas. Not only that after frost the stalks keep birds from ground level where sprouting seedlings are safe.

Quinoa is picky where I am. If we get a late snow it dies, if we only get frosts it's ok. Processing is the same except for washing it.

I prefer the amaranth because it's very drought hardy. We can dry farm it here in California. Popping it is my favorite use, and from there it can bs ground into a roasted amaranth flour. Traditionally it was used to make a type of masa for a type of tamale. I add it to breads, soups, sauces, deserts and more.

Yields from amaranth are good, I've had plants that gave one lb each. It prefers a harsher soil.

The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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Thank you for the input, Jordan.

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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I'm also thinking about adding chia, flax, and sesame to that list. Does anyone know the typical yields of these three plants? Also, how drought tolerant are these?

Jordan Lowery

pollinator

Posts: 1528

Location: zone 7

posted 12 years ago

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Which chia? We grow salvia columbariae. Had bad luck with salvia hispanica. It bloomed on October and no chance for seeds to ripen.

Sesame is an amazing plant. It's my second favorite early pioneer after amaranth. Crazy drought hardy, bee food, lots of biomass. Good seed yield. Were going to try black sesame this next season.

Flax is also good, I mostly grow it for the fiber as it makes very strong cordage which I use for homemade bows( and arrow) bees like it's bloom. Seed yield is ok but you don't need tons of flax seed anyways.

The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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I was thinking about salvia hispanica. Can you tell me about salvia columbariae?
I am interested in bee food plants. I have two bee box hives on my property. My father in law and I are raising them. It was mostly him, then he found out he is severely allergic to them. So, now its mostly on me.

I love to hear about drought hardy plants. While my well is deep and has good output, I still like to play it smart with my water usage.

I don't know how expensive sesame seeds are but I wonder if I can grow them on the bare hillside I have to help stabilize the soil and add biomass?

It's exciting how much there is to learn. Books are great. But, getting feedback from others is awesome as well.

Jordan Lowery

pollinator

Posts: 1528

Location: zone 7

posted 12 years ago

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Salvia columbariae is desert chia. Handles dry temps better. Good yields same high quality seeds.

Amaranth is excellent bee food. On certain days the blossoms sound and look like a hive. I had a half acre patch with all types of understory flowers the bees LOVE the amaranth. So much so some days it was kind of dangerous or slightly scary to walk down the paths with amaranth on both sides.

Books are great but the sad part is most books are based on knowledge not experience. A common one involves carrots, said to cross pollinate with queen annes lace and taint the carrot seed. Now it's true as far as books go, but in reality ( here at least) the two plants flower MONTHS apart, giving no chance for cross pollination. I find a lot of the times both knowledge and experience are needed. That and the willingness to just try things. My first quinoa crop died and I didn't get a single seed in return. Where as I tried again at different times and had success.

It's like sepp says. If you don't at least try you will never know what's possible.

Sesame would be good on a hillside if you plant early. Store raw sesame works for seed. Harvesting is kind of a pain. The seed pods ripen indeterminate so like tomatoes there not all done at once. When dry the pods can explode sending seed 30ft away.

The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings. - Masanobu Fukuoka

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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To bad winter is only just beginning. There is so much I want to try. Although, I do have plenty of prep work to do this winter.

Are there any other Pseudo grains I should look into?

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

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posted 12 years ago

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I have hear that winter sowing seeds is the best way to go.
And I know for a fact that it is best to transplant bareroot/dormant tree in the fall/winter esp with winter rain/zone 9 temp

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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What seeds are best to sow in the winter?

Unfortunately, I won't be planting many trees this year. I will be focusing on herbaceous perennial vegetables and medicinal herbs this year. I will be especially focusing on what I can grow from seed.

From this point on I also want to start seed saving as best as I can.

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

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posted 12 years ago

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Look for these terms on seed packets:

Needs Pre-chilling (freeze seeds, refrigerate seeds, stratify for x amount of days or weeks), Needs Stratification, Will Colonize, Self-Sows, Sow outdoors in early Autumn, Sow outdoors in early Spring while nights are still cool, Sow outdoors in early Spring while frosts may still occur, Hardy Seeds, Seedlings can withstand frost, Can be direct sown early, Wildflower, Weed (such as butterfly weed, joe pye weed, jewel weed.)

Look for Common Names indicating a natural environment:

Plains, Prairie, Desert, Mountain, Swamp, Field, River, etc.

Look for names that might indicate an origin in a temperate climate:

Siberian, Chinese, Polar, Alpine, Orientale, Canadensis, Caucasian, Russian (indicating Soviet origin), etc.

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

I like...

posted 12 years ago

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I have wild Amaranth in my garden, of every color and I have never planted a single seed. What I have done is eat/kill all the red/multi-color ones and only let the green leave ones go to seed
They return every year and I have never sown a seed. They are in fact my main vegetable/greens.

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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S Bengi wrote:I have wild Amaranth in my garden, of every color and I have never planted a single seed. What I have done is eat/kill all the red/multi-color ones and only let the green leave ones go to seed
They return every year and I have never sown a seed. They are in fact my main vegetable/greens.

Where do you live?

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

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posted 12 years ago

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I live in Boston,MA zone 6/7 according to thenew hardiness map.
here is one. http://home.comcast.net/~beryluter/IMG_1825.png
http://home.comcast.net/~beryluter/site/?/photos/

Here are a few things you can winter sow.
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002053844010986.html
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002084541029568.html
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002064609005437.html

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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I know I keep going off topic, but, do you think I could plant comfrey seeds now?

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

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posted 12 years ago

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From what I have heard you should get the sterile comfrey otherwise they get invasive.
As in get the comfrey root/bulb and not seed. I would plant it.
It pretty much an evergreen in you climate so I would plant it in the winter too.

I do have wild borage, lovage and what I believe to be comfrey in my yard.

I sent 3 additional links above tell me which ones off the list you are thinking about planting.

I also got a few of my seeds from these guys.
http://www.bountifulgardens.org/prodinfo.asp?number=LAY-6610#.UNt4W28azuo
I also have the walking stick kale, indoor.
Next year I will plant one of them inground and see where my zone pushing gets me.
My regular self seeding cabbage family plants grow the 1st year, survive the winter and flower/die the next year.

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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I love alliums and brassicas.
One of my biggest focuses this year (year two on my property) is to plant culinary and medicinal herbs.
I like variety, and there isn't a fruit or vegetable that I've tried that I didn't like.
Unfortunately, do to finacial reasons I have to do things as inexpensively as possible.

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

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posted 12 years ago

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I am pretty sure you have seen this before. But just in case here you go.
http://perennialvegetables.org/perennial-vegetables-for-each-climate-type/mediterranean-and-mild-subtropical/

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

I like...

posted 12 years ago

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Here are a few tropical(always sweet even if wild) seed that you can buy.
http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/fruits_ornamentals_by_hardiness.htm

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 12 years ago

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Thank you for all the links and input.

S Bengi

pollinator

Posts: 3827

Location: Massachusetts, Zone:6/7 AHS:4 GDD:3000 Rainfall:48in even Soil:SandyLoam pH6 Flat

557

I like...

posted 12 years ago

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Glad I could help. Hopefully soon I will be like you, with a land in a warm climate, worrying about how to build my forest garden, lol.

But for when the money does com, here is my favorite place to get stuff.
http://www.onegreenworld.com//index.php?cPath=1

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 12 years ago

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Jordan Lowery wrote:Which chia? We grow salvia columbariae. Had bad luck with salvia hispanica. It bloomed on October and no chance for seeds to ripen.

Sesame is an amazing plant. It's my second favorite early pioneer after amaranth. Crazy drought hardy, bee food, lots of biomass. Good seed yield. Were going to try black sesame this next season.

Flax is also good, I mostly grow it for the fiber as it makes very strong cordage which I use for homemade bows( and arrow) bees like it's bloom. Seed yield is ok but you don't need tons of flax seed anyways.

Same with chia hispanica!! It is blooming even right now!
I might sow in autumn then...
But i do want to try the columbariae type...
Would you swap some seeds with me Jordan?

I liked flax, and easy to harvest. Will do it again. Never tried sesame, but the problem is to dehull it, because of the amount of toxin like phytic acid...
I am trying buckwheat at the moment (too warm to do it in summer here!)
I will try teff, it is a gluten free grain from Africa.

i am fond of amaranth as well, the most easy to harvest! How do you pop it?

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

Fred Neecha

Posts: 41

posted 11 years ago

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I am so glad I found this thread, because my bags of rye, buckwheat, and flax seed just arrived today. Along with amaranth and daikon radish and sorrel and lots of other good stuff. Feeling good about it all.

So what's the deal with buckwheat? And yes, how do you pop your amaranth? Also, how do you mill it?

Permaculturist, Herbalist, Acupuncturist

Steve Flanagan

gardener

Posts: 324

Location: North Fork, CA. USDA Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, 37 degrees North, Sunset 7/9, elevation 2600 feet

posted 11 years ago

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Conner Patrick wrote:I am so glad I found this thread, because my bags of rye, buckwheat, and flax seed just arrived today. Along with amaranth and daikon radish and sorrel and lots of other good stuff. Feeling good about it all.

So what's the deal with buckwheat? And yes, how do you pop your amaranth? Also, how do you mill it?

While I have not grown buckwheat I do think it's tasty.

Xisca Nicolas

pollinator

Posts: 1981

Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11

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posted 11 years ago

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Jordan Lowery wrote:Which chia? We grow salvia columbariae. Had bad luck with salvia hispanica. It bloomed on October and no chance for seeds to ripen.

I have found c. columbiarae and it seeds in summer, but much less seeds, it is a small plant.
for hispanica, I will try so sow it now, to get seeds in april. it flowers only in short days. Here it has not yet stated to bloom!!!

Problem for columbiarae.... it seems that it does not have omega3 like the regular chia....
Who knows more?
Sure the 2 plants do not look like each other at all, nor he leaves not the flowers.
Yes the seeds are nearly alike.

Xisca - pics! Dry subtropical Mediterranean - My project
However loud I tell it, this is never a truth, only my experience...

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