Last Time, Once More to Establish or Else

paul wheaton wrote:
I'm glad that my neighbors have weeds.  It shows that they are not poisoning me.

And I like to go out to where the dandelions or hawkweed have made puff balls and blow on the puffballs. 

And the turf is thick and green and rich with life.

Have you read my lawn care article? 

You mention roundup.  Before I can help you, I need you to pledge that you will never use any roundup or any other chemical herbicide ever again.  And that you are strictly organic from here on out.

Further, I need you to take a look at this thread.

jeremiah bailey wrote:
Do have some pictures of your lawn? Both wide angle and close up will help us tremendously in helping you. Lay off any herbicides for now, vinegar, organic, and especially roundup. All kinds of herbicides are just that: plant killers. And since you are trying to grow plants, ie. grass, you need to stop with the plant killers. Grass is fairly sensitive to herbicides, more so than most weeds are. You're just making it harder to grow a nice lawn. Yes, vinegar makes a good herbicide, but more on that after you get your lawn reestablished. It won't help you much until then.

Get your soil analyzed. Get some pics of your yard posted. Lay off the herbicides. Lay off of tilling or otherwise disturbing your soil as well.

paul wheaton wrote:
I'm glad that my neighbors have weeds.  It shows that they are not poisoning me.

And I like to go out to where the dandelions or hawkweed have made puff balls and blow on the puffballs. 

And the turf is thick and green and rich with life.

Have you read my lawn care article? 

You mention roundup.  Before I can help you, I need you to pledge that you will never use any roundup or any other chemical herbicide ever again.  And that you are strictly organic from here on out.

Further, I need you to take a look at this thread.

[size=10pt]I've managed to make quite a difference by old-fashioned pulling of weeds.  Before my lawn got so bad its what I used to do to control the weeds, actually and my neighbor on the other side of me used to say I was wasting my time because I wasn't getting the whole thing, root and all, but I proved he was wrong because my lawn looked pretty good NOT PERFECT that way.  With that in mind, I wish my clueless neighbor would realize the invention.  It starts with looking for weeds and then upon seeing one, bending at the waist or some other method to get close enough to the weed to grab it and then pull it out of the ground.  It's a simple concept lost upon him.  Actually, I have pulled weeds in his yard trying to create some sort of barrier between his land of the lost and mine but I am losing the battle on all fronts.  While its true this is the "land of the free" and one can do within reason as one chooses, there is such a thing as being a responsible person and neighbor.  Allowing small tree-size weeds to grow along the fenceline which eventually invade my flowering shrubs and weaken or destroy them doesn't seem to bother this oaf, actually there are two oafs, mr and mrs. oaf.  If I go to the trouble of cutting out some of said tree-sized weeds for them i do manage to get their attention and they complain loudly about my interfering with nature as it is in their yard.  The concept they fail to grasp is that what is "over there" eventually comes "over here" and if they don't address it I will.  The mr. oaf even said if I don't stop cutting down his weeds then he is going to start cutting down mine (which there are none but hey be my guest).
Now, having exposed myself as a shrew and a harpy, I just had to get that out.  It has nothing to do with the subject, except on the periphery but sometimes I get tired of biting my tongue.
As I said, up until a couple of years ago, I never touched the dreaded Roundup or any other weed killer, I pulled weeds and eventually it made a difference.  I don't like chemicals because there are little creatures which share my yard with me, bunnies who help themselves to some of my tomatoes but I'm willing to share after all bunnies know nothing of property deeds or boundaries and neither do the squirrels, pesky little rodents who still manage to amuse me and give my dogs something to do, aspiring to catch one but never succeeding.  My dogs entertain the squirrels with what appears to be one of their favorite games: Can't Catch Me.  They enjoy coming out into the open, the thrill of the chase, and their amazing ability to climb trees and jump from branch to branch.  Until she passed away, my little yorkie (whose vision had grown poorly) would sit faithfully at the base of a tree the squirrel she was pursuing climbed into, happily unaware the squirrel had used the canopy of trees to make his escape long ago.  Its a balance of nature I enjoy.  Occasionally Ive seen a possum or two show up, always surreptiously at night, and while I don't wish to personally interact with them, they do their thing and I do mine.  Actually, I had observed a mouse who was observing me as I was observing my ornamental fish pond.  He looked quite sociable and seemed to be sharing a moment of camaraderie with me and seemed also to approve of the little pond I was admiring.  When i first saw him  and before it registered what it was, I do recall our exchanging glances, he seeming to say, "nice evening isn't it, nice pond" until I gather my wits and realized what it/he/she was.  He made his escape and actually we had a detente of sorts.  'I won't bother you (rodents) unless you bother" me which indeed did happen as I saw a rat (makes me shiver) run into my attached garage on fall.  He never made it into my house but it was quite a process involving removing everything from said garage that could be removed and hosing it out with cold water, thus convincing him he was unwanted.


I digress, I'm afraid, from the topic at hand, except to show you that I am not someone in love with chemicals, I avoid them whenever possible but as the case with the rat, eventually one has to be sensible when threats to health become involved.

More than you all wanted to know but nevertheless, bearing in mind I can't figure out how to upload pictures (and I am computer literate so I'm frustrated by this inability) I am filling in a bit of history in lieu of pictures, for the time being.
     
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but I proved he was wrong because my lawn looked pretty good NOT PERFECT that way.

I wish my clueless neighbor would realize the invention.  It starts with looking for weeds and then upon seeing one, bending at the waist or some other method to get close enough to the weed to grab it and then pull it out of the ground.  It's a simple concept lost upon him. 

Actually, I have pulled weeds in his yard trying to create some sort of barrier between his land of the lost and mine but I am losing the battle on all fronts.  While its true this is the "land of the free" and one can do within reason as one chooses, there is such a thing as being a responsible person and neighbor.  Allowing small tree-size weeds to grow along the fenceline which eventually invade my flowering shrubs and weaken or destroy them doesn't seem to bother this oaf, actually there are two oafs, mr and mrs. oaf.

If I go to the trouble of cutting out some of said tree-sized weeds for them i do manage to get their attention and they complain loudly about my interfering with nature as it is in their yard.  The concept they fail to grasp is that what is "over there" eventually comes "over here" and if they don't address it I will.

The mr. oaf even said if I don't stop cutting down his weeds then he is going to start cutting down mine (which there are none but hey be my guest).

Now, having exposed myself as a shrew and a harpy, I just had to get that out.

but as the case with the rat, eventually one has to be sensible when threats to health become involved.

paul wheaton wrote:
First, the difference between "soil" and "dirt" is that soil is dirt + organic matter (dead leaves, worm poop, dead grass bits, bird poop, tiny twigs, etc.).

Each time you till, 30% of your organic matter is released into the atmosphere and your soil is getting more and more like a cement-ish dirt where nothing will grow. 

And there are the things that Jeremy pointed out. 

Next, a lot of bad ideas have been borne out of desperation.  Let's talk a moment about how desperate you are.  You aren't gonna die if you don't have a first class lawn.  If you do this stuff because without it you'll be miserable, but all of your attempts so far have made you miserable, then it seems that for you, lawn is misery!  Take it easy!  Let it go!  If you embrace the idea of being happy despite your lawn (or patch of cement-ish dirt) then all of this will be a pleasure and not a source for pain. 

Next, we'll get your lawn looking damn good, right quick.  And it will be easy.

If you you have soil, don't till.  If you have cement-ish dirt where nothing will grow, tilling won't hurt anything.  But if we're gonna till, let's make it do some good.

I wonder what your vision of perfect looks like? 

For me, it is a thick, green turf .... green throughout the summer ...  speckled with herbs and wildflowers ...  that feels spongy under my bare feet and smells wonderful when I mow it. 

While I am familiar with the technique and I have pulled a few thousand weeds over time, I would have to say that I have not pulled a weed from a lawn for many years ....  maybe more than ten years?  And that was eliminating bindweed and canadian thistle (while leaving dandelion, plantain, chickweed and others). 

I don't have much dandelion anymore.  Which is too bad, because I really like blowing the puffballs. 

In fact, I once saw a dandelion that was something like three feet tall!  I wouldn't mind getting some of the seed from that.  I could plant it around and blow some really amazing puffballs!

And you might think of me as cousin oaf. 

With a few exceptions, most plants that you would call "weeds" serve a very important function.  And they are, in my opinion, doing you a HUGE service.  You are simply not aware of that service.  Nor do you appreciate it .... yet. 

I can make a plan for you to have all of the plants you want and have ZERO weeds.  You can go out onto any part of property and blow puffballs and throw around all sorts of weed seeds, but none of them will take.  And your neighboring properties can be loaded with millions of weeds throwing off billions of weeds seeds all landing on your property - where they will quickly germinate and then die.  Or simply rot ... or .... lots of other things that lead to not having them on your property.

My vision for you is very rich, but I want to start off with a really simple picture so you can understand where I am going. 

Suppose your property is packed full of giant cedar trees.    You can walk around between your trees quite easily.  The ground is covered with cedar tree duff (twigs and needles and the like).  Have you ever been to cedar grove?  My experience is that most cedar groves that are nothing but giant cedar trees have nothing else growing under them.    No dandelion.  No black medic.  No plantain.  Nothing.    Naturally. 

So, here we have at least one scenario where billions of weed seeds can be tossed into this situation and no weeds will take. 

I could go into a lot of detail on why this is, but let's just say nothing out-competes a cedar tree.  Competition is the name of the game.

When you mow low, you make it easy for your weeds to out-compete your grass.    When you mow high, grass outcompetes almost everything.  If you mowed your cedar to three inches, it would give up too. 

By mowing low, you made a weed nursery.  And your neighbors supplied the weed seed. 

If you had a giant cedar grove, you would not think your neighbors were oafs. 

So, if all of your soil was loaded with stuff you liked that could out-compete any weed that might try to come up, then no weed would have a chance.  Ever. 

....  I keep finding myself wanting to express a hundred other things, but I have a lot of other things to do today ...  so I'm gonna move on ...

They are right and you are wrong. 

If you came to my yard and started hacking down my stuff I would be very upset.  I think I could even make a legal claim against you.  I strongly recommend that you not do that anymore and that you owe your neghbors an apology and a plate of home made cookies.

Of course, "weed" just means unwanted plants.  If you invite him to come to your property and cut down anything he thinks of as a weed, that could easily include all trees, roses, bushes, etc.  And if he recorded you saying that, then he could legally do exactly that.    I suggest a casserole to go with the cookies. 

I think "harpy" is a really fun word.  I need to work it into daily conversation more often.

You might want to take that up in the critter care forum.  We'll help you get rid of rats without any chemicals.

kcsummer wrote:
If what you view as beautiful is something that destroys flowering plants that attract hummingbirds and all sorts of other wildlife the good luck to you.

kcsummer wrote:
I don't really care for your attitude.

kcsummer wrote:
You are an "elitist".

kcsummer wrote:
I don't view a nice lawn as happiness but if I am going to do something I will do it the best I can and not try ten different times to do it ten different ways.  I'm trying to do a good job this one time.

kcsummer wrote:
And these neighbors of mine you defend don't spend five seconds outside to see the damage their vegetation does so why would they care.  I shouldn't have to cut it down they should.

kcsummer wrote:
Have a nice life.

jeremiah bailey wrote:
Well, where would you like us to start?

lanemik wrote:
For all I know, I could find a house with the lushest, fullest, most amazingly organic lawn in town and the only advice I'd need is to mow high, mow often. 

kahunadm wrote:
Lanemik,

you should get a copy of "the organic lawn care manual" by Paul Tukey.  It's an easy read and should answer most of your questions.