Beginner here...

Going against the advice of seasoned permaculture artists and planting right away... The reason for this is the amount of time to get fruit from trees. A couple questions on tree placement.

My ideal area would be right along the driveway so neighbors can enjoy, as were in agreement to be building a sort of community here. Problem is, there is a clump of trees about 100 yards to the west that would block sunset. Is this an issue? Trees would recieve full sun the rest of the day.

That ideal location also appears to be on the prevailing winds side of the property. Issue?

Secondary position isn't ideal, but would allow full sun the entire day.

Also, I have seen conflicting info. Should the rows go N-S or E-W? I could see both ways being effective in my mind. Do rows even exist in permaculture? If not, do you have a preffered planting method?

Welcome to Permies.

I am kind of in the same thought as you with getting the trees in the ground! I have looked towards good placements instead of perfect placement because of it but I'm sure to make it work.

When you mention putting it along a driveway, how close are you imagining? I wouldn't want to be RIGHT on the driveway because of impaction/outward growth. I don't imagine if it is just sunset or a few hours at the end of the day that it will be much of an effect. Once again, not ideal but not a bad thing really.

I think before I get too far into thoughts, what kind of fruit trees are you thinking of having? What is your climate like?

Considering the tracking of the Sun throughout the day I'd personally suggest E-W over N-S orientation. I'd just like to throw it out there that I planted multiple trees last year and variations of the old Ellen White method actually are growing the biggest and fastest. I've since then learned that tree roots secondary feeder roots actually tap into rocks to harvest trace minerals so it's making more sense to me now. I didn't follow her exact method I just put 3 medium size rocks at the bottom of a 3 ft deep 3' diameter hole covered in a layer of leaf litter followed by layers of native soil and homemade compost mixed in with some citrus tone fertilizer, one more rock directly beneath the root ball and that's it. The tree's that got this style of planting are far healthier than the others and are currently growing tons of new branches. I don't know why I see professionals these days suggesting to never dig deeper than the root ball/current pot size, I tried that too and it grows trees but they are dealing with more pest issues and don't grow as vigorous.  

It's important to research a trees surface root habits and root size before putting anywhere near a driveway, I've seen large tree's 40ft away from a driveway decimate the concrete with it's root growth. There's a reason certain driveway tree's are popular.

Timothy Norton wrote:Welcome to Permies.

I am kind of in the same thought as you with getting the trees in the ground! I have looked towards good placements instead of perfect placement because of it but I'm sure to make it work.

When you mention putting it along a driveway, how close are you imagining? I wouldn't want to be RIGHT on the driveway because of impaction/outward growth. I don't imagine if it is just sunset or a few hours at the end of the day that it will be much of an effect. Once again, not ideal but not a bad thing really.

I think before I get too far into thoughts, what kind of fruit trees are you thinking of having? What is your climate like?

Timothy Norton wrote:Welcome to Permies.

I am kind of in the same thought as you with getting the trees in the ground! I have looked towards good placements instead of perfect placement because of it but I'm sure to make it work.

When you mention putting it along a driveway, how close are you imagining? I wouldn't want to be RIGHT on the driveway because of impaction/outward growth. I don't imagine if it is just sunset or a few hours at the end of the day that it will be much of an effect. Once again, not ideal but not a bad thing really.

I think before I get too far into thoughts, what kind of fruit trees are you thinking of having? What is your climate like?

Yeah it wouldn't be too close, about 15 feet or so. I like the idea of neughboors having access, but its also at the entrance of neighbooehood meaning passers by my grab
a snack.  The more I look at the trees the more i doubt it will work. So far we're planting 3 apple and 3 peach but would like a little more variety. We're in 7B, Eastern panhandle of wv just outside Washington DC

George Booth wrote:Considering the tracking of the Sun throughout the day I'd personally suggest E-W over N-S orientation. I'd just like to throw it out there that I planted multiple trees last year and variations of the old Ellen White method actually are growing the biggest and fastest. I've since then learned that tree roots secondary feeder roots actually tap into rocks to harvest trace minerals so it's making more sense to me now. I didn't follow her exact method I just put 3 medium size rocks at the bottom of a 3 ft deep 3' diameter hole covered in a layer of leaf litter followed by layers of native soil and homemade compost mixed in with some citrus tone fertilizer, one more rock directly beneath the root ball and that's it. The tree's that got this style of planting are far healthier than the others and are currently growing tons of new branches. I don't know why I see professionals these days suggesting to never dig deeper than the root ball/current pot size, I tried that too and it grows trees but they are dealing with more pest issues and don't grow as vigorous.  

I have not heard of this! Will be looking into it! Love this forum already.

K White wrote:

Timothy Norton wrote:Welcome to Permies.

I am kind of in the same thought as you with getting the trees in the ground! I have looked towards good placements instead of perfect placement because of it but I'm sure to make it work.

When you mention putting it along a driveway, how close are you imagining? I wouldn't want to be RIGHT on the driveway because of impaction/outward growth. I don't imagine if it is just sunset or a few hours at the end of the day that it will be much of an effect. Once again, not ideal but not a bad thing really.

I think before I get too far into thoughts, what kind of fruit trees are you thinking of having? What is your climate like?

Yeah it wouldn't be too close, about 15 feet or so. I like the idea of neughboors having access, but its also at the entrance of neighbooehood meaning passers by my grab
a snack.  The more I look at the trees the more i doubt it will work. So far we're planting 3 apple and 3 peach but would like a little more variety. We're in 7B, Eastern panhandle of wv just outside Washington DC

Apple trees get what's called Cedar rust if there are Cedar trees anywhere within 500 feet. Sometimes a few varieties can be a little closer maybe 300ft IF they are in the prevailing winds before they get to the cedar trees.  

15 feet from the driveway is a bit to close as the branches and roots will get there eventually.  

Plant them where YOU can access them the best or before you know it everyone but you will be enjoying the fruits of YOUR labor and money!  Been there done that, even had people tell me to stop picking my own trees before they got what they were due! Of course that was when I lived in a city long ago back before things got nearly as bad as they are now. Thank the lord I no longer live there.

Welcome to Permies K!

Peach trees live ~25 years, apple trees can live much longer, just something to keep in mind.
I would be comfortable planting within 15 feet of a driveway,  but I also recommend keeping fruit trees pretty short, for ease of harvest.
I believe that keeping the trees short will help keep the roots in check as well.

Loosing evening sun isn't a big deal in my opinion.
I have a pear tree that sits between my house and my next door neibors home,  a gap roughly  1O feet across.
It has a pine tree 20 feet to the north of it,a fence immediately south of it, and a young black walnut tree on the other side of said fence.
This Bartlett pear tree is two stories tall and produces pears every year.
This from an end if the season close out tree, that I expected to die.

The only real downside is where the  tree fruits.
It forms fruits where the sun hits it,mostly 20 plus feet in the air.
A telescoping fruit picker works fine for picking ,but protecting the fruit from squirrels becomes impossible when it's that high up.

One more thing, about sharing fruit
I have front yard raspberry bushes and I encourage the kids to eat from them.
I also just moved  blackberry bushes from behind a privacy fence to in front of it.
They are also for the neibor kids.
It takes some work to keep cane fruit presentable, but you never have to worry about the fruits that hit the ground, and with larger fruits you really do.