• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

What do you do for not USING money?  RSS feed

 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1318
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
26
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"USING" sounds interesting for me...

Banks USE money, they work with it purely. and they pay all of us some interest money to USE our money!
We were the fools who were attracted by interest... We accept to put our money into special accounts were our money "is working" for us...
BUT if banks give you some scrap of money, sure they earn more than what they give!
I bet even much more.... and we do not know how much our money bring to them.

So, what do I do?
I keep my money in an account that brings me no interest.
I do not mind about devaluation.
If I do not agree, I do not participate.

then, I have no health insurance. If I keep the money I gave them, then I have more.
And my way of healing is not covered by health insurance anyway...
And also, I have to care more for myself, as I pay for it.

I have no car. ok, I use others' cars... But I save a lot.
Then I know a place for free clothes. Sometimes I find something else, a bag, even candles!
Well, without a car, I go less.

I have no fridge, just a computer and a washing machine, so I save a lot too. Internet cost me quite little.

Then I use my money for preparing the moment I will live with less, much less, may be almost nothing.
I buy seeds, but then i will keep my own seeds. If I don't, then I am unfair to myself and will still need money!
Then I work on my fears. Why do we feel so personally important as to want to live a few more years?

So, I do not use money in the bank, and I use what I have so that I will need less
.
And I am not in a hurry to rich zero, I do what I can.

And you, what do you do?
 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1318
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
26
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mark Sundeen, what did you change in your life about money, since you met Daniel Suelo and wrote this book?

Actually, we can read what Daniel has written in his blog, and YOU are here.
So I'd rather know about your personal experience and your personal evolution. Thanks!
 
Nina Jay
Posts: 85
Location: Southern Finland, mean annual temp +4 C, rainfall 700 mm, growing season 180 days, clay soil.
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I like your thinking, Xisca! Very good point about banks and how they do really USE the money. It's not just lying in the bank as people often think if they haven't thought about this whole thing very much. Many people seem to to think it's better (from an enviromental perspective) to save money than to use it on "products". But the truth is, if you are giving your money to banks (or insurance companies) you have even less control over what the money actually does!

I do many of the same things that you do. The most radical thing I do is perhaps that I no longer save for my pension. I used to give money to the insurance company (it's called "pension insurance", I don't know the correct term in English) every month but I don't any more. I want to decide myself how I use my little money. Just keeping it in the bank means it's not safe from inflation but on the other hand, I'm working towards needing less and less money all the time so inflation should not be a problem for me. Should hyper inflation come I think that would mean serious problems to the whole economic system anyway and there is no way of telling which banks or insurance companies will be standing, how much money will the state have left to safeguard the savings, etc. So my reasoning is that there is no way of safeguarding oneself against hyper inflation and "normal" inflation is not a problem if you are steadily working towards needing less and less money.
 
Xisca Nicolas
pollinator
Posts: 1318
Location: La Palma (Canary island) Zone 11
26
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Nina, I was feeling brave (haha) and alone!

I have begun to wonder if money were 2 things...
1) A way to barter more easily
2) A tool that bank USE to clone money! (Someone said money is debt...)

If I want to USE money for bartering, then I use it in its first use.
If I disagree with the 2nd USE, then I must do something NOT TO HELP this!

I believe we are all responsible for what banks do just because we accept the little % of interest from a bank account.

So, who accept to loose a few $ or €? That's only crumbles for banks... to attract us like pigeons.
Many people accuse banks unilaterally. haha... Walk your talk...
 
Nina Jay
Posts: 85
Location: Southern Finland, mean annual temp +4 C, rainfall 700 mm, growing season 180 days, clay soil.
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You are indeed very brave!

I haven't managed to do all of the things in your list but I've done some of them and I'm working towards the same direction. The car and the mortgage are biggest ones on our family's list of things we'd LIKE to get rid of but seem unable to at the moment. The car is something we'd give up in a heartbeat if we didn't have children. But we do and they need to get around, see their friends, go to daycare/ school. Going to school is not the problem (there is the school bus) but daycare is. Now of course if we didn't have the mortgage we wouldn't need so much money and my husband wouldn't have to work outside of the home and there would be no need take the kids to daycare. But the kids at home all the time is a challenge for running the farm too! And as their are no kids of the same age nearby the daycare is also a place where they can meet friends so.... We are stuck on this mortgage - work - daycare -cycle... for the time being, until we figure a way out of it. No doubt we will some day. It has been the same with everything: initially we think we absolutely cannot do without this or that but after some time we figure out a way. And then looking back we wonder how we ever thought this or that was necessary.


The two roles of money you have described are possibly what is called 1) real economy and 2) financial economy?

People don't place nearly as much attention on financial economy as they do on real economy. I'm no expert on economic theories but I think the invisible financial economy probably causes a lot more damage than people realize. It's in this world of finances where it's possible for a few reckless individuals to cause severe consequences for millions of people. Not so much in the real economy where the consequences are more limited.

You are right, if I disagree with the financial economy and how it works, I must do everything I can not to help it. What you suggested seems like a simple, practical thing that anyone can do. An excellent place to start - just keep your money to yourself. Or put in on the real economy markets but avoid giving it to bankers and financial markets?
 
leila hamaya
pollinator
Posts: 1133
Location: northern northern california
68
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i live on an extremely limited income, but i still live in a world of abundance.
people are kinda shocked often when or if i tell them how little money i tend to spend in a month.

it is not always easy, but i highly value my free time. is it an excuse, or a blessing that i am artist? i live for making art, growing food, and building things. so thats what i do, and am not inclined to spend any time to make money, which means i have had to acclimate to a smaller and smaller income. things become much simpler, and even theres a freedom in not having money. you just cant do many, most things, so you don't do a lot of things...then develop ways to be able to still live and get what you need without the use of money.

i do make money selling crafts, and when i used to work very hard at that i did make a fairly ok income, but not very much considering the areas i live in and this country in general. these days i hardly ever get inspired to spend the time doing the marketing and travelling selling my crafts as i used to, but i do have things on consignment with different places.
 
Fred Morgan
steward
Posts: 979
Location: Northern Zone, Costa Rica - 200 to 300 meters Tropical Humid Rainforest
15
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally, to charge interest was considered immoral. (in fact, the word interest was the way the money lenders got around this - it used to be considered usury)

Originally, money was something with an agreed on value, so that if I had logs and you had chickens, I didn't have to take a lot of chickens if you wanted wood for a floor.

Having too much currency is a big mistake in my opinion (and in all honesty, it will devalue a company if they have too much cash on hand) - much better to put all except for what you need for short term trading into assets, i.e. more fruit trees, more land - more things that produce what you can trade, even if the trade is merely bartering something else.

 
Lucy Elder
Posts: 20
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Fred Morgan wrote:Originally, to charge interest was considered immoral. (in fact, the word interest was the way the money lenders got around this - it used to be considered usury)

Originally, money was something with an agreed on value, so that if I had logs and you had chickens, I didn't have to take a lot of chickens if you wanted wood for a floor.

Having too much currency is a big mistake in my opinion (and in all honesty, it will devalue a company if they have too much cash on hand) - much better to put all except for what you need for short term trading into assets, i.e. more fruit trees, more land - more things that produce what you can trade, even if the trade is merely bartering something else.



It still is usury under another name imo but it is possible now to at least only bank with those companies with an ethical investments only box to tick.

Not easy for anyone who has more than a few bucks to know how to keep them safe but not get sucked into the banking system. I used to worry about this when I had more money. Now live on (comparatively) little and find learning how to do this a lot less stressful than scrambling to earn to 'make my way' in a system with which I;m not happy.

Ways I use money differently: I give my washing to people who otherwise have no work and want work. (No washing machine) I get my fuel for heating delivered locally by horse and cart and gathered from where it is fallen. I barter or buy veg from neighbours more expert than I am and grow fruit. Also buy sheep and goat's milk from the folk with the sheep and goats and make yoghurt and cheese. Eggs too. Never buy any but recycled clothes. Would like to use money still less though.. I still buy some items from a supermarket and would like to stop doing that.
 
Isabelle Gendron
Posts: 173
Location: Montmagny, Québec, Canada (zone 4b)
1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just stumble on this post....

I am a stayed at home mom with 4 kids (5 to 16)...saving money or USING less is quite difficult but I manage to do so. Wich we could spend less though.

I cook a lot
Grow veggies but still not enough
Grow fruits but DEFINITLY not enough

Starting to make my laundry and dishes soap.

try to have the girls (yes only girls here) to use less water...less chimical products....

We are heating with wood stove it cost us 270$ of electricity for nov to January this year in electricity...not bad....

We manage to put money in an RRSP since it saves us taxes at the end of the year but wish I could use this 300$ a month for something else...

We buy most use cloths but I buy new if it is a peice of cloth that we will use a lot and for a lot of occasions (ex...the little black dress....6 years I have mine for chic or casual activities...even the garden )

I am still working on finding way to make money from home....but most of all, use less...need less...but until the house is paid and kids to school...choices had to be made...

isabelle
 
Mark Thomas
Posts: 23
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Compared to most of my circle of friends/relatives my wife and I seem to live on very, little. Her cousin is and family is visiting at the moment and I live on quite a bit less than his monthly car payment! From observing those around me I have found that you can save a fortune just by being smart with money and here is a recent example of three friends and motorbikes.

Friend A: earns big money - ($6.5K p/m - just had a $20K yearly bonus - but works very hard for it). He bought a Harley new about 3 years ago - to give him and his wife something to do on the weekend. I do not know exactly how much he paid for it - I do know he bought on credit but paid it off fairly quickly - pays a lot for a service especially as he gets it serviced once a year but only does maybe 1000km on it per year. So has taken quite a loss and cost a fortune per km - BUT he has the cash but is usually to exhausted on weekends to have a ride. Is now divorced. Bike was around $8K - now around $5.5K

Friend B: Does not earn much with to be honest not much on the horizon. Bought a new bike 2 years ago on credit - basically chinese junk and only a 150cc but they offered him credit so he jumped at it. Costs $1.5k but with credit takes it to around $2.2k. Bike does not get used, but still things break and rust on it - he did under 1500km before selling it for $700 - before he finished his payments - during this time he got married and divorced.

Me: A year and a half ago I bought a secondhand honda Shadow 1100, $2.5K. It's goes well and is in ok condition. I did a basic service once on it and have changed the battery and it uses a bit of oil - all up so far around $150. My wife and I use it mostly Sundays on breakfast drives and have done over 7000km's on it so far. Bike still worth $2.5K - and happily married!

I am not sure what the moral is here or if there is even a point to my rambling but if I had to take a guess it would be:

Money does not make you happy but nether does not having money. Rather live with in your means and be smart with what you have. And NEVER buy anything on credit besides property/education.
 
Landon Sunrich
pollinator
Posts: 1703
Location: Western Washington
21
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Xisca Nicolas wrote:

2) A tool that bank USE to clone money! (Someone said money is debt...)

If I disagree with the 2nd USE, then I must do something NOT TO HELP this!

Walk your talk...


Amen!

Plus, it is my personal belief that the banking institutions are inherently soulless greedy thieves. Last time I had a bank account (200 I had 18.70 in my account and had not touched it for several years. It was my absolute last ditch "safe" money for whatever emergency I might need it for. Then right after the bank got a huge bailout check (it was one of the specific banks to receive direct aid, not merely one of the countless ones who's entire system was propped up) they decided to change their policy to 'If you don't have at least 50 dollars in your account and/or transact X amount per month we are going to charge a 20$ monthly fee" They sent one junk mail looking note which I never received (I was living in a temporary shelter off grid on the peninsula as a seasonal farm worker) and then proceeded to Jack my Sh@T. I was like "WTF!?!? I thought banks where supposed to be a SAFE place for money..." I will NEVER bank again. NEVER

So now I live on the fringes, do most of my work in barter for real goods, accept and use cash when I have too (like paying the phone bill) and pray nightly that the worlds monetary system comes to an abrupt and crashing halt.
 
Landon Sunrich
pollinator
Posts: 1703
Location: Western Washington
21
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As for specific things I do to avoid using money other than not using banks... I do lots - but the most major ones are 1) Not driving. I borrow a truck every now and again but even between it and running a chainsaw from time to time I would be surprised if I used more than 10 or 12 gallons of gasoline a year (excluded gas used by the free bus which I catch) 2) I do not heat or cool my home. I don't particularly like the Electrical company and I strongly dislike the Oil and Natural gas companies so I eliminate the most major expenditure of energy/cash towards them by this. The insulation in my place sucks. The squirrels and racoons made off with what little there was years ago - once I find a good fix for this I will likely begin using wood again - but I see no point in even using a natural resource available at only cost of my labor when most of it ends up going through the walls... I have geese, so no lawn mowing of weedwacking... I have ducks and wildcraft a fair bit of food = less expenditure at the grocer.... Basically at the moment cash is mostly for electricity, phone, the dues on the community well, and the occasional 'sanity purchase of beer and/or magic cards. When I have a bit more certainty in life it will go towards more infrastructure and any skilled labor I cant trade naturally grown goods for.
 
Mark Thomas
Posts: 23
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It's interesting how living in different places in the world effects your ideas and thought. Our banks in South Africa - although are still greedy buggers - are way better regulated than in many parts of the world and therefore did not come close to be needing to be bailed out. So although I am generally not a fan of banks (besides one new one that gives 4.4% interest on a normal savings account) I certainly do not hate banks - but do avoid credit like the plague.

I certainly would be open to bartering - but more to avoid taxes than to avoid cash. Our president has managed to spend over $20 million of tax payers money on "security" at his personal residence -but of course, now denies knowing anything about it. But it's one of the joys of earning very little, you get to pay very little in taxes!

I should also add I cycle to work and my truck sit's in the garage. The last time I had to use it it had been standing for a good three months or so and had to charge the battery before being able to start it. Oh well, should last me many, many years.
 
Lasagna is spaghetti flavored cake. Just like this tiny ad:
This is an example of the new permies.com Thread Boost feature
https://permies.com/wiki/61482/Thread-Boost-feature
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!