Im Going Crazy

I need about 9 meters of 8" piping for my RMH thermal mass.

Where I live (Uruguay) its either galvanized steel (obviously not an option) or paying $70 per meter.

Im not about to pay $600 for the piping on my RMH when I chose to build an RMH to save money..

So what other method is there to build a cheap, yet sound piping system for my thermal mass??

HELP!!

Karl Meisenbach wrote:I need about 9 meters of 8" piping for my RMH thermal mass.

Where I live (Uruguay) its either galvanized steel (obviously not an option) or paying $70 per meter.

Im not about to pay $600 for the piping on my RMH when I chose to build an RMH to save money..

So what other method is there to build a cheap, yet sound piping system for my thermal mass??

HELP!!

i made the pipes from metal sheets and screws, for a third of the cost of the galvanized pipes. see link
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ry3vwwpp9ivvrc8/HrsHd7AZYX

you can also use the half barrel system instead of pipes, look it up on the forum, but depends on the space and length of the bench.

and as you can see, i didn't use elbows either as they are expensive too, the elbows are just brick boxes, probably not the best solution but it's working just fine so far.
you could also make the entire thing from bricks

Ok..let´s say i make the entire thing out of bricks, even smooth-surfaced bricks for that matter..

Won´t i run into air friction issues?

i don't think so if the cross section is bigger than the combustion unit, but i'll let the experts weigh in, i've seen one example on the web but i don't know the details , look for "ecodorp rocket stove".

Karl M : I think we are going to have to let Leonard Allen give use a class in making stove pipe. If by now you had been on schedule to burn out your barrel, you
would have learned about how to deal with galvanized pipes tendency to outgas heavy metal zinc, so that we can use it! however at 1/3rd to 1/2 the price. I will
switch to the lightest grade I can find ! Think like fire, flow like gas ! Your PYRO - LOGICAL PYRO - MANIAC For the Future / Good of the the Craft !
As always, your comments and questions are always solicited and always welcome ! BIG AL !

allen lumley wrote: Karl M : I think we are going to have to let Leonard Allen give use a class in making stove pipe. If by now you had been on schedule to burn out your barrel, you
would have learned about how to deal with galvanized pipes tendency to outgas heavy metal zinc, so that we can use it! however at 1/3rd to 1/2 the price. I will
switch to the lightest grade I can find ! Think like fire, flow like gas ! Your PYRO - LOGICAL PYRO - MANIAC For the Future / Good of the the Craft !
As always, your comments and questions are always solicited and always welcome ! BIG AL !

allen lumley: I suggested the experts, like you, give us a class!, sounds like a better idea:) i think any galvanized pipe is expensive in our area, hence the idea of using bricks, like that fantastic ecodorp rocket stove, is it possible to do in smaller scale?, what should the cross section minimum size be for an 8" system if using bricks for the flue system

Hi Allen,

I apologize but are you saying that i CAN use galvanized pipes even though they leak out heavy metal zinc? Is that something that they do only at the beginning?

Karl and Leonard : There are a lot of assumptions being tossed around here. Lets see what we can do to clean a few of them up and find out if they are presentable !

Because I live in the States there are many more chances for me to dip into the stream of waste products. Some of which I take personal pride in using, and creating
New Value out of, or of UP cycle-ing, Not just recycling . Because I have so many more bites at the Apple - scrounging, going to recycle stores, and Home Depot and
Lowes I actually have not had to develop the 'do more with less' that you use every day ! In some ways I am like the rich kid that has a $1,000.oo bike who
can't adjust a simple derailer`! Am I handicapped, * No! Am I stupid, No! You could easily make a case for me being Spoiled, what I am is Ignorant ! Lets just share
what we are good at !

I took a look at the ecodorp Rocket, and found the 46 page picture album, it is some of Peter Bergs earlier work, He often posts here. I believe he is getting ready for
an advanced wood stove competition in Washington D.C. right Now !!!

Karl you may be interested, picture #4 of 46 , is a picture of rock wool wrapped around the outside of Firebrick(?) and held in place with chicken wire ! IF you were to
try square duct work you might have passable good luck with a 7'' x7.5'' ducting but you would have to make a continuous trench, rough and finish plaster its inside
walls smooth and then lay pre-plaster'd,and finish plaster'd cap stones over your trench. This is just me talking, but that seems like a lot of work if someone would
teach me how to make round pipe !

12 -20 show a new kind of high temp refractory material that I am sure was as Expensive as hell then, and probably still is , that and the cool factor of that build is all
that I see that is remarkable ! Of course thats like calling a Mercedes 'a car' ! Here Peter has just created a big 'bell', with thick rather insulate sides (as compared to-
the top ) If you are not sitting on it, then it has to heat the whole room to heat you ! I believe that this was purpose built for just this location and if you asked him he
would tell you that several smaller 'Bells' would do a better job of delivering heat to where you wanted it, and thinner walled 'bells' would do a better job of warming
the floor level, as compared to this build !

You can do a google search for the 'Engineers Toolbox' and prove to yourself that you can move more cubic feet of air/water through round ducting over Square duct
-ing of the same Cross Sectional Area C.S.A., If someone can make round ducting out of any light weight metal at 1/3rd to 1/2 the price and cut down on the total #
of pieces to boot, I want to sit at Their Feet !

I'm already near the far border of my knowledge when it comes to 'Bells', but I might be prepared to 'stand on the edge of the diving board' when you two tell me you
have figured out how to burn off/out Karl's barrel !

* Actually yes, due to a Traumatic Brain Injury, T.B.I., The good new is I am no-longer a Uni-brow, and I don't scare my Grand children !

For the Good of the Crafts ! Be safe, keep warm ! As always, comments and questions are solicited and welcome ! Big AL !

allen lumley wrote:I took a look at the ecodorp Rocket, and found the 46 page picture album, it is some of Peter Bergs earlier work, He often posts here. I believe he is getting ready for an advanced wood stove competition in Washington D.C. right Now !!!

I've been involved in the realisation of the ecodorp rocket mass heater, yes, but I wasn't the instructor by the way. And yes, two finalists of the wood stove design challenge do use one of my designs but that is all. Probably I won't even be in Washington DC for the finals in november.

allen lumley wrote:Karl you may be interested, picture #4 of 46 , is a picture of rock wool wrapped around the outside of Firebrick(?) and held in place with chicken wire ! IF you were to try square duct work you might have passable good luck with a 7'' x7.5'' ducting but you would have to make a continuous trench, rough and finish plaster its inside walls smooth and then lay pre-plaster'd,and finish plaster'd cap stones over your trench. This is just me talking, but that seems like a lot of work if someone would teach me how to make round pipe !

The riser with rock wool wrapped around and held in place by chicken wire around a steel pipe is for demonstration purposes only, it won't hold in a real rocket heater. The bench of the real stove is made of small and very cheap concrete blocks and a lot of cob, no insulating materials in there. The top is made of a double layer of large concrete pavers, layed in cob again. The only high temp refractory material is in the core, built out of ordinairy fire bricks. The entire stove including a steel heat to water exchanger has been built in four days by approximately 12 workers.

The bench itself is built like a bell, the entrance at floor level and the exhaust at floor level again. The whole setup is a 7" system by the way, highly experimental and even an oven on top of the barrel. And oh yes, we've converted the barrel to a pocket rocket first in order to burn the paint off. Worked like a charm (and stank like a chemical plant disaster).

Hi Guys, lots of info I really do appreciate it!

Allen, one thing i failed to mention is that my barrel has no paint on it so i can skip the "burning off" stage.

Also, my hear riser is comprised of refractory bricks and as insulation im going to wrap a wire mesh around it and fill the space with perlite and clay slip.

For the flue system im now considering to do brick for the lower half of the duct with half a pipe running across the top, giving it a "domed roof" effect. Something about the dome roof calms my anxiety about its weight-bearing capacity and ease-of-flow of hot air..any objections or alarm bells regarding that im all ears

Alen, one question, it souded like you were saying that galvanized stell CAN be used for the flue system because it burned out heavy metal zinc? Im not sure i follow, can galvanized steel in fact be used and does it burn out heavy metal zince at the beginning only, i cant seem to get my head around it.

Karl M. : Yes you can use galvanized Stove pipe if thats all you can get ! Let Me Marshal my facts and get back to you ! TAH DAH ! O. K.,it feels like I have shared this
advice with you before, if it was two other guys named Karl And Leonard, Or my meds mis-handle-ing me Than lay this off on me and I'm Sorry, and let's move on !

Please go to Permies.com (s) sister site - ' richsoil.com ' - Scroll down to and click on Rocket Mass Heaters then scroll down and watch the 8th Video * Rocket Mass
Heater Barrel Prep. Compare the nice shinny Galvanized stove pipe at 50 seconds, with the Dull flat grey color at 1:15 when they were starting to burn off a 2nd barrel,
at the point that the color has changed the has been a change in the chemical formula, and the bonding sites of the pipe at the molecular level, the remaining zinc is not
in a free state even when heated and will no longer Out Gas !

Usually I am able to Scrounge 80 % of my stove pipe, I will burn off most all of the pipe that still needs burning, And bury the rest deep in my Cob Thermal bench where
It will have three layers of Cob,simple Cob, Cob with Straw and at least 1 finish coat ! Buried stove pipe more than 2 meters inside the Cob will never reach the Temps
high enough to Out gas,and even then would be locked up in the Cob,never to be aerosolized again !

Now will some one give me a price break down on making your own pipe ! Elbows are an Expensive problem and need work !

Carlos Bicimondo has told me he has figured out how to solve the problem of expensive "T"s using sections of Cardboard Sono Tubes, With as much Talent and B.S#. as
we can gather together, We need to have a Forum of our own, but I will settle for a Forum Thread ! Think like FIRE, flow like Gas !

*Yes I really expect you to watch all 12 videos as an antidote to the Jreck thats out there in You Tube Land !

#You supply the talent , - - - -

For the Good of The Craft ! Be safe, keep warm ! As always,comments and questions are solicited and Welcome ! Sometimes they're Answered Big AL !

Karl M. : Yes you can use galvanized Stove pipe if thats all you can get ! Let Me Marshal my facts and get back to you ! TAH DAH ! O. K.,it feels like I have shared this
advice with you before, if it was two other guys named Karl And Leonard, Or my meds mis-handle-ing me Than lay this off on me and I'm Sorry, and let's move on !

Please go to Permies.com (s) sister site - ' richsoil.com ' - Scroll down to and click on Rocket Mass Heaters then scroll down and watch the 8th Video * Rocket Mass
Heater Barrel Prep. Compare the nice shinny Galvanized stove pipe at 50 seconds, with the Dull flat grey color at 1:15 when they were starting to burn off a 2nd barrel,
at the point that the color has changed there has been a change in the chemical formula, and the bonding sites on the pipe at the molecular level, the remaining zinc is not
in a free state even when heated and will no longer Out Gas !

Usually I am able to Scrounge 80 % of my stove pipe, I will burn off most all of the pipe that still needs burning, And bury the rest deep in my Cob Thermal bench where
It will have three layers of Cob,simple Cob, Cob with Straw and at least 1 finish coat ! Buried stove pipe more than 2 meters inside the Cob will never reach the Temps
high enough to Out gas,and even then would be locked up in the Cob,never to be aerosolized again !

Now will some one give me a price break down on making your own pipe ! Elbows are an Expensive problem and need work !

Carlos Bicimondo has told me he has figured out how to solve the problem of expensive "T"s using sections of Cardboard Sono Tubes, With as much Talent and B.S#. as
we can gather together, We need to have a Forum of our own, but I will settle for a Forum Thread ! Think like FIRE, flow like Gas !

*Yes I really expect you to watch all 12 videos as an antidote to the Jreck thats out there in You Tube Land !

#You supply the talent , - - - -

For the Good of The Craft ! Be safe, keep warm ! As always,comments and questions are solicited and Welcome ! Sometimes they're Answered Big AL !

I have built lengths of duct out of soup cans.
They never have been exposed to heat, but even id they failed, perhaps the cob would hold?
I am not sure of the size, but they were the big institutional cans.
I have been thinking of how to make concrete pipe.
I have a surplus of pvc(I am a plumber) but I don't want it leaching into my soil.
My idea is an inside form that is a pcv pipe wrapped in greasy paper. A larger pipe, greased inside, cut in a spiral and duct taped back together would be the out side of the form.
Pour, let it cure,peel of the outside form, soak with water, and pull out the inside frame.
Maybe soap would woek better than grease...

William Bronson : Bill, by now you probably have seen, read, or heard of fox fire/Dakota fire pits as the forebears of the original Rocket (cook) Stove. As soon as tin
cans became available, the Plains Indians recycled used tin cans to bring fresh air to their fires via D.I.Y.stove pipe buried in the ground under their Tipis, hogans,
wikiups, etc.

I have had some luck doing this myself, but was stymied by a camp ground with too dusty or muddy conditions and always managed to step on the pipe while going
out 'to water a tree', late at night ! :0 Y.M.M.V.

Ideally we can crimp the ends of pipes we make from Eaves Flashing, but Cans that are just oversized/undersized at 6'', 7'', 8'', could be used as collars, screwed in
or over We have the length issue solved, (I Think) and now like the man negotiating with the prostitute are talking about price !

Yes the cob should hold -unless like me you need to walk on it before the Cob has completely dried !

G'luck with your experiments, be aware that different clays can have W-i-d-e-l-y varying differences in amount of swelling while wet and expansion while heated, to
be able to consistently replicate good results you will have to be precise in measuring out Clay to Sand ratios, And very likely will need to use some amendments like
Wood Ash, Shells, and (non vitreous ?) grog, Also the band of good clean clay you found at 5' is not as good as the good clean Clay in that band at 8', and that dirty
old clay from 1/2 a mile away puts them both to shame !

For the Good of the Craft! Be safe, keep warm ! As always comments,questions are solicited and Welcome ! Even answered, mostly ! Pyro Al !