Tarragona, Spain starter

Hello all, me and my missus are coming to Tarragona region to house hunt in the mountains. Grew up on a homestead type place, been working with animals (dogs, horses, cows & a sheep herd every now and then) and construction most my life. Trying to move From Finland to there next autumn, maybe as soon as summer. We're arriving to see places late march and have tons of places in mind, some from Idealista etc. We dont have a huge budget since we have own an apartment here and plan to save it for pension money, but we do can take a loan from Finland. We would hope to live in Spain about 3/4th of the year (summer excluded since we have a cabin here also).

The plan I have in mind is a to 1st fix a house, then save as much water as possible in ponds, swales & in the ground by slowing & cathing water, plant fast growing support species & some oaks, olives, a small garden & an orchard. WSounds like a lot I know

Any tips, book recommendations, contacts, architects in area, weak points in the original idea, etc. Anything, been deep diving youtube on building dry stone, keeping, trimming and harvesting all edible, keeping livestock. I have some books too, but more is better.

Thanks again

Hi and welcome to Permies!

The Iberia part of this forum is not the busiest, so I’m happy to read you.

Sounds like a lot, but also like a fun project.

Just something to ponder is to look at the rainfall of the past years. I think the east of Spain was particularly dry. All of the Mediterranean doesn’t look too good in a +3 °C world. But some mountains, springs or rivers might be useful.

Best of luck for finding what you’re looking for!

Yeah, we've been monitoring the water situation for a few years now and actually came to see some plots last year also, we didnt find the place we wanted to settle then though. It did help with knowing what we were looking for though. Some places weve been looking have irrigation water and/or land with terraces or hills so water collecting should be easier with ditches & swales to ponds and cisternas.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Hello Sam.
Yesterday I ran across Benjamin who commented on the lack of movement in the Iberica forum so I thought I'd head over and check developements. Seems like it was timeous-welcome!
We moved to Tarragona 5years ago this July. I had also spent years researching the climate, rainfall patterns etc. I hadn't followed actual weather and recorded dates and levels which would have been a better indicator than historical averages which paint quite an optomistic picture.
Originally we were going to go to Almeria but we went down there for a 4 week holiday and got a really good feel for the area and realised just how hot and dry it was!
Well, Tarragona has experienced just as hot, dry weather for the last 4 years.
We rented for 8 months originally. 18 kms from the nearesr village, 25kms from a decent town. Off grid, solar power, no irrigation water or well. We had 2x 3000L water tanks to store rainwater. We were a family of 3. Interestingly they had an automatic washing machine plumbed in-high water use. Rainfall was insufficient to support us through the summer. there was a small, terraced veggie garden which the previous tenants had  lined with agri plastic. But the soil was very poor. Even after enriching, mulching and installing drip irrigation I couldn't get anything to grow productivly besides a bit of lettuce and chard. It grew, just nor very well and didnt produce fruit. It was about 1acre of terraced almonds and 4 acres of olives which you could see by the topography was planted on an underground watercourse. There was green vegetation directly above the retaining wall on the higher side and again below the lower retaining wall. Just a 2m square area but shows there was subterranian water. But the vegetation on the finca dried up totally during the summer. The soil had been intensively worked so was lifeless and did not hold moisture.
We spent 6 months looking for our own place- we were also on a very small budget- with a very stict criteria. We wanted 10 acres or more (for sheep & chickens) had to have water, not on a tar road, as remote as possible. Any building had to appear on the cadastral even if it was not liveable or zoned as agricultural. Building regs can be very strict in areas and we knew of a few illegal extensions and complete new builds(15 years old) that had knock down orders on them. You have to apply to paint your house in some villages.
We ended up on 2 acres, no water, on a tar road, 9km from the nearest town! But it was in budget and had a recorded agricultural building in the deeds.
We learned that you can live rurally with minimal traffic without sacrificing convenience. Renting a remote property on a dirt road without water highlighted the pitfalls of getting water onsite. When we needed water, we would tow a trailer to town and fill 600L from the town's public water point. It was a heavy going on the vehicle and trailer, the trailer needed new wheel bearings and the body once detached from the chassis and needed rewelding.

Living where we are now, we are on year round passable roads so fetching water isn't such an issue - we use a twin tub machine instead of fully automatic. We spent the first 2 years making it habitable, installed solar and running water in the 3rd year. We did all our own building, plumbing, wiring etc but we did use a solar instaler to fit the system from solar panel to mains distributer box. We have the same issues with growing stuff, even with heavy composting and mulching the soil is very deficient and plants struggle. I have lost over 20 trees  we had planted the first year and failed to create green cover between our olives-and not for lack of water. With heavy mulching and grey water usage we have developed small swales of growth but mainly using succulents and woody herbs. We have had nettle come up spontaneously which is great, but it is yet to survive a summer. I can't get anything edible to mature in the ground yet- except prickly pear. Terraces and swales are great as a concept, but the soil is so degraded and lacking in hummus that it doesn't hold water. In the first 2 years we rode trailer-load after trailer-load of stable muck and spread it 30 cm thick, drip irrigated, diverted runoff and swaled and experienced failure after failure. I've still got 10KG of green manure seed/legume mix in a bucket because I know it will fail if I plant in in the ground I have. We haven't given up, just reduced our expectations.
I have developed above ground wicking beds and reservoir pots instead which function better and I feel better about the water I use, which is much less anyway. I find this concentrates my efforts and I've had better success. The long term plan is to continue forming zai pits or mini swales and eventually  they will all link up into a green regenerated oasis. Looking back, I am so glad I don't have 10 acres to regenerate!
The olives bore fruit the first year but nothing since. We didn't expect any the 2nd year but with the drought last year the trees also held back. Farmers in the area are dubious about the harvest this year, even the irrigated ones. I think it's an interesting time in agricultural history with success stories in sub sahara, Jordan and Murcia but in all 3 cases I have noticed that there was heavy focus on increasing soil fertility through animal manures and carbon. The support and concerted effort of the community has also had a huge impact in Murcia. But the persistence of plowing as fire control in Tarragona is worrying.
As to leaving your property vacant for months, summer is the time when young plantings require the most care. Last summer the farmers ponds and reservoirs all dried up and the water table dropped so low they couldn't get any water out of their wells. Obviously if you are on a water scheme things are easier but there are still restrictions. As a side note, thefts are uncommon, there are a lot of semi vacant homes arounds us but I have heard of a few thefts of solar systems- in fact, our rented property had such a theft the year before we mover there. Just recently there have been postings on the local facebook groups about theft so it's worth bearing in mind.
My most important piece of advice to you is: try look at property in the late summer/autumn before the rains. Spring and Winter are glorious, vibrant and green. Summer paints a true picture of the conditions. If you can see how bad it gets, you can plan for it.
Overall, I had big expectations to change my 2 acres into an oasis like I have seen them do in Texas and Jordan but the reality is, it depends on what you have access to and water is a big factor. I am undefeated though and will continue to regenerate the land even if it is 1square meter at a time!

Welcome to a wonderful part of the world. We need every enthusiastic, committed folk ready to change their patch of heaven so that their neighbours will have visual proof of what can be done. There is a strong permaculture presence in Tarragona and our area even has a workday programme where people get together to help people to accomplish something in a day which would take a single person ages- like pruning a neglecleted orchard or rebuilding a terrace wall, planting trees etc. Some people can only supply labour, others bring their own tools too. It's generally a morning and you supply a cheap lunch- baked spuds or soup n bread so its a bit social as well. I've only managed to go to 2 but it's great to see and share other peoples ideas. It's a great area with an internatinal community. I am sure you will find a local Finish group and with luck, they will be permies too!

Hey Sarah, sorry to hear abou the water issues you and the whole are been having. I dont lack in motivation for work the land, so I hope it will help us a little :D The area isnt really a favoured by Finns, but that doesnt matter. We arent really moving to Spain to see more of us there, it's more about living of the land and not suffering the Finnish winter while at it.

Some plots were looking have irrigation water or the possibility to join the irrigation network, sadly most of the irrigated farms are tilled till barren so we'll have to see them close to get a feel of the land.

Edit: We came to the area earlier, and it hadnt rained in almost 2 years then so we saw the drought pretty good even though it was spring time.

I'm touring Spain this winter. In mountainous areas there seems to be less of a problem with water. Only place I know on the coast with mountains is Denia region.
Permaculture minded people seem focused on subtropical forestry. I visited a seed exchange for heirlooms in Chelva and had brought seeds from the European landrace group GoingtoSeed. Members from Mallorca and Croatia trying to adapt crops to drought conditions , but it's hard. Maybe it would be better to grow annuals inlate  autumn/winter/spring?
Good luck Sami, keep us posted.

Sooo, we found a place with recidencial building, agricultural water, a few cisternas for clean water gathered from the roofs ( 10 000l), 2ha of medium steep terraces planted with mostly centuries old olives, some newer arbequina olive trees planted in the 1980s and 1ha of unproductive land filled with wild herbs, flowers, bushes and a few pine trees.

Some of the issues to plot are: The plot if fairly dry since it hasnt been worked in recent years and the last years of drought, but its bouncing back. The drip irrigation system has disintegrated in the Spanish sun, bedrock is fairly close to the surface, exposed at some points = not a lot of soil.

Looking for all input working with the Spanish soil, slowing the water cause the plot is fairly steep and has seen some erosion. Also what plants have you seen to have good success for creating biomass.

Congratulations Sami!
Are you looking for specific plants or just biomass in general?
If it’s biomass you’re after your olives (and maybe the neighbor’s trees) will produce quite a lot of thinnings. Maybe look into a mulcher (trituradora). Usually people (at least in my area of Andalucía) burn the cuttings in winter. I just got a giant pile of tree cuttings and have good success mulching with it or making compost.
I also started making biochar in a ground dug hole.

Biomass in general, I do plan to use the olive prunings as mulch, but Im thinking I need more non-woody type biomass for faster decomposition. Maybe, Im not sure Its totally different type of soil than in Finland so I have zero experience working the land, any tips are welcome I suppose. I was thinking adding carobs for animal feed/biomass since they drop tons of stuff without even pruning,  maybe mexican sunflower for a hedge (living fence type?)

Benjamin Dinkel wrote:Congratulations Sami!
Are you looking for specific plants or just biomass in general?
If it’s biomass you’re after your olives (and maybe the neighbor’s trees) will produce quite a lot of thinnings. Maybe look into a mulcher (trituradora). Usually people (at least in my area of Andalucía) burn the cuttings in winter. I just got a giant pile of tree cuttings and have good success mulching with it or making compost.
I also started making biochar in a ground dug hole.

We finally bought the place, a few km from nearest village. Dry olives, a few fig trees, tons of Herba. We will be moving on late november. Any advice in addition to swales and ponds to get moisture to The land is wanted 🙌