!!!!!!!!!! Questions About Starting a Permaculture Project

Hello Internet! I have some questions about a starting a permaculture project. For some context, I am thinking of some sort of half farm-half homestead thing with gardens, orchards, and animals. My hope would be to live onsite, but this may be a "eventually goal" rather than a "right away" sort of thing. I don't really have a site yet, nor am I really looking (have to get some things in order first, such as finishing my degree). I'm in a sort of planning stage, but a very general planning stage because I haven't even really chosen a region (not too hot, not too cold, plenty of water/natural resources...). That said, I'm curious about everyone's perspective on a few things:

* How can you start to prepare for this sort of lifestyle beforehand? If I'm in an apartment in a medium-large city, what are my options for getting skills? So far, I've volunteered at a community farm (on an ongoing basis, I think I did 80+ hours last Summer/Fall), volunteered with Habitat for Humanity (not as much, but I'm learning some construction skills), and am going to volunteer with a group that has a garden where they teach community members about the area's agricultural history (ex: indigenous gardening, how the early settlers gardened, different cultural gardens). What else should I be doing?
* Is it better to start earlier with lower capital or save and start later with higher capital?
* I've read that you are supposed to observe the land for a year before building anything permanent. Seems like a good idea, but I am curious about the logistics of that. Should you make it a camping thing (because if you cannot build a permanent structure, you don't have a house to stay in yet)? Do you even have to be there in a "living there" sort of capacity (ex: could you just visit every day or two for a few hours)? Can you just be there weekends so you can keep your day job? Is there some alternative that I'm not thinking of?
* Is there anything you wish you had done differently starting out that you could give advice on?
* Once you start building permanent structures, what first? Is there a logical order to go in? Does it matter? Does it vary based on personal goals?
* What questions do you think I should be asking?

Should you make it a camping thing (because if you cannot build a permanent structure, you don't have a house to stay in yet)? Do you even have to be there in a "living there" sort of capacity (ex: could you just visit every day or two for a few hours)? Can you just be there weekends so you can keep your day job?  

I wouldn't think you have to live there. I would just want to go often enough and for long enough to see it at all times of day and night, all times of year, all kinds of weather.

Lauren Pfaff wrote: * How can you start to prepare for this sort of lifestyle beforehand? If I'm in an apartment in a medium-large city, what are my options for getting skills?

Skills for growing food are great, but it's equally important to practice preserving them. So learning to can, blanche, freeze and dry food are all skills that are useful where you are now, and in the future.

Small engine and car repair skills - or at least knowing what all the bits are - is also important, because you may be where there isn't a repair shop close at hand.

There are lots of household skills like sewing and mending that develop coordination that transfers to other tasks, as well as saving money in the short term.

You've already found and done some PEP badges. Going through those with an eye to, "will this help me cope better on a homestead," would be good also. Many of the badges are for demonstrating competence, rather than skill training, so it's important not to do things "just once", but do them enough times that you're confident that you can do them from memory and skill.

Gathering basic tools, if you don't already have them, is also important. Watch for sales on quality equipment and don't exclude quality second hand. I've used cheap wrenches, and quality wrenches, and the quality ones don't cut into my hands when I'm struggling to get a stuck bolt undone. Vice grips are a woman's best friend (if you're tiny like me, at least!) as are saws that can easily have their blades replaced like hack saws.

To reply to the replies:
Mark Reed: I agree that it's not really necessary to live there before building. Seems a bit excessive to camp year-round (including during snow, rain, etc.). I agree that as long as you are there to see the place at different times of the day/year and during different weather events, it shouldn't be necessary to be at a site year-round in a temporary structure. At the very least, the level of difficulty would probably outweigh the potential benefits. I was curious what everyone thought.

Jay Angler: Preserving food is definitely important. At this point, I'm not particularly good at canning, but I know some people who are good at canning, so I'll go annoy them and see if I can help them put up their harvest/get a lesson in the process. Should also look into other methods of food preservation if I want to eat from the site year round. My small engine/car skills are growing. When I lived with my parents, I made dad do all that (until he "killed" his project car) , but it's probably for the best that I learn at least the basics. Household skills are pretty easy for me. I am autistic so my parents/teachers always made a huge deal of "learn how to do this thing" in a learn a life skill sort of way. Part of that was the skill figuring out stuff like "my laundry machine broke, what do I do and how will I have clean clothes?".  Yeah, the PEP stuff is cool. I just use it as a way to share my progress for encouragement rather than entirely for the badge icon. I agree that the skills are important to be used in an ongoing way. I have a growing collection of tools. Haven't really browsed second-hand, but I probably should to save money. I can speak from experience that vice grips are everyone's best friend (I think dad literally has a wall of them in his workshop).

Look to YouTube and Instagram for canning, and drying tips and instructions. I like Becoming a Farm Girl and Rose Red Homesreading for emergency preparedness.

Both women are excellent teachers in there own way. I recently added Nicole kills plants to learn how to make laundry soap, dw soap, and other Hh goods.

I understand that this is not quite permies approved   method of learning, but it provides me with the baseline information I need in order to learn how to water bath can and  pressure can. Good luck

How about learning natural building?  Does that appeal to you? I want to learn cob, straw bale,etc. I love the feel to the buildings and the look.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:Hello Internet! I have some questions about a starting a permaculture project. For some context, I am thinking of some sort of half farm-half homestead thing with gardens, orchards, and animals. My hope would be to live onsite, but this may be a "eventually goal" rather than a "right away" sort of thing. I don't really have a site yet, nor am I really looking (have to get some things in order first, such as finishing my degree). I'm in a sort of planning stage, but a very general planning stage because I haven't even really chosen a region (not too hot, not too cold, plenty of water/natural resources...). That said, I'm curious about everyone's perspective on a few things:

* How can you start to prepare for this sort of lifestyle beforehand?
* Is it better to start earlier with lower capital or save and start later with higher capital?
* I've read that you are supposed to observe the land for a year before building anything permanent.
* Is there anything you wish you had done differently starting out that you could give advice on?
* Once you start building permanent structures, what first? Is there a logical order to go in? Does it matter? Does it vary based on personal goals?
* What questions do you think I should be asking?

Yes, observation once you have the land.

Once you start building a permanent structure, you will need fencing ...

* Is it better to start earlier with lower capital or save and start later with higher capital"

You can make more money, but you cannot make more time. I bought this place as a retirement project for two. We waited until it would be less of a financial struggle for, but life happened and now it s project for one. The stamina is not there any more, the strength never was real great but less now. I have had to let go of things and plans to make it more manageable for me.

Welcome to Permies Debra!

Yes, people like to think they can do the same things at 65 as they did at 25, but bodies take longer to heal and recover for most people as they age, even if they have had an active life.

You have come to the right place to ask questions and get ideas of how to make you place work despite now being just one.

Just being "one" takes a huge adjustment, regardless of the cause.

If you want to post information and pictures about the plans you're experimenting with,  this forum is the place to do so: https://permies.com/c/permaculture-projects

Quite a few questions. Let's take them in order:
1/ to prepare for this kind of lifestyle: You are doing exactly the right thing: Get information, free if possible, even better if you have good heart projects like Habitat for Humanity or you volunteer at a Community Farm: They will teach you A LOT, at least for the type of ground and the zone you are presently living in..
2/ It's better to start earlier with a lower capital: You have to start small, anyway, rather than have grandiose projects and perhaps go in debt and get discouraged because things are not turning out perfect on the first try.
3/ Observing the land for a year before building anything permanent: It depends: If your dream plot is very different in soil composition, growing zone, like in another State, perhaps taking a vacation there might be in order, but as you look for properties available, if you know the essentials [which you can also find online, by the way, like soil composition, growing zone, frost line, potential for flooding, frost-free days etc.], you could start with a good solid house and then start dreaming in the winter, with seed catalogs etc. An alternative is to visit the County extension office nearby and they will have a wealth of resources for you. [Mostly for free!]. If you have a day job, that's the best and cheapest alternative to trying to "tent it".
4/ Looking back, no. I made plenty of mistakes, like buying 25 trees and then not having the time to get them planted and watered properly; I had grandiose plans.  but I suspect you won't make too many because, unlike me, you strike me as "a planner". Starting small also makes for less costly mistakes!: You can back out of a project that's not panning out for you without losing too many feathers!
5/Permanent structures... like the house? or sheds, coop, etc? I'll set aside the house because if you start from scratch, that's an enormous project that is likely to delay the other stuff immensely, so let's assume you buy a house already made.
Depending where you land, close to a spring, lake, mountain, pay great attention to the paths That's a situation where centralized is better] and the closeness to water and electricity. I chose to build my coop about 300 ft from the house. Well, what seemed like "just a little ways so we don't have to smell the chickens" became a pain for watering in the winter, transporting their feed there, socialize with them, doing the slaughtering or even putting on the finishing touches to the coop and build an addition without electricity. Now we have battery operated Ryobis, so it's a breeze, but it was tough at first.
6/ the logical order: Well, the house, because living away from the property isn't easy. You'd have all the same problems, but now, you will forget tools you need at home and waste a great deal of time and probably cussing enormously!.
Garden and critters. Having done the opposite, I would take care of the coop and getting whatever critters you would like first and garden next: They produce manure in abundance and will help you greatly with the garden. Starting a garden "from scratch" can be a back breaking job, especially in clay soil, and your first year, you would work like crazy, need chemical fertilizers and still get rather mediocre, discouraging results. You can let them do the scratching: You can find a Farmers market to buy your fruit & veggies the first year. [Also, because meat is usually a more expensive item in every food budget, you might want to start with that first. Oh, learn to put food by if you don't know yet!]
7/ as far as the questions you should ask, yes, that will depend on your personal goals, but it seems to me you are really asking reflective and deep questions, so I think you will pace yourself properly, without procrastinating too much
I have faith in you. Go for it!

Lauren Pfaff wrote:Hello Internet! I have some questions about a starting a permaculture project. For some context, I am thinking of some sort of half farm-half homestead thing with gardens, orchards, and animals. My hope would be to live onsite, but this may be a "eventually goal" rather than a "right away" sort of thing. I don't really have a site yet, nor am I really looking (have to get some things in order first, such as finishing my degree). I'm in a sort of planning stage, but a very general planning stage because I haven't even really chosen a region (not too hot, not too cold, plenty of water/natural resources...).

Kudos! I think you're wise to plan ahead and to ask lots of questions! Something to keep in mind is that for every answer you get, you may find you have even more questions, lol. It can feel like battling a 'hydra'.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:That said, I'm curious about everyone's perspective on a few things:
* How can you start to prepare for this sort of lifestyle beforehand? If I'm in an apartment in a medium-large city, what are my options for getting skills? So far, I've volunteered at a community farm (on an ongoing basis, I think I did 80+ hours last Summer/Fall), volunteered with Habitat for Humanity (not as much, but I'm learning some construction skills), and am going to volunteer with a group that has a garden where they teach community members about the area's agricultural history (ex: indigenous gardening, how the early settlers gardened, different cultural gardens). What else should I be doing?

Wow, you're off to a great start! I think many folks would fare much better when they start out, if they'd done some of the things you're doing. I'd recommend you keep working on those things, and get really good at them. Learning to cook well, from scratch is a good idea, and while you're at it, learning several foods preservation methods is wise. I say several, because no one thing is the 'best' for everything. (Dehydrating asparagus doesn't make for good eating, but can be a fantastic way to put up tomatoes for sauce & paste. Water bath canning is dangerous for low acid foods, but excellent for jam. Pressure canning is safest for meats, but is serious overkill for berries. And, so on. )

Lauren Pfaff wrote:
* Is it better to start earlier with lower capital or save and start later with higher capital?

That depends on many factors. Including, but not limited to: where will you live, while you set up? If off site, how far will you have to commute? How do you plan to support yourself, while you build? How much time will you realistically be able to devote to it, if you have to live off site? How long will it take to save the capital to get started? If you wait, save hard, and work on those skills, it will go more smoothly when you get started, but at the same time, all the sweat equity will be going to someone else, in the meantime - but that's often WELL worth the effort, because you'll work through your mistakes while someone else is supervising, which can prevent serious setbacks that can happen when you learn on your own.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:
* I've read that you are supposed to observe the land for a year before building anything permanent. Seems like a good idea, but I am curious about the logistics of that. Should you make it a camping thing (because if you cannot build a permanent structure, you don't have a house to stay in yet)? Do you even have to be there in a "living there" sort of capacity (ex: could you just visit every day or two for a few hours)? Can you just be there weekends so you can keep your day job? Is there some alternative that I'm not thinking of?

All of these things are up to you, but yes, observation is good. We lived in our house for a year, before I'd let my husband mow anything other than right around the house, because I wanted to a what he here, where, how, etc. Almost 7yrs now, and I'm still finding new stuff growing out there, coming across tiny micro-climates I hadn't noticed, and even wild critters I hadn't found here, before. In fact, just today, I found a vole scuttling through my garage workshop - first one I've seen here. So yep, observation is helpful, but don't necessarily expect to have seen everything, by the time that year is up, even if you live in your land.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:
* Is there anything you wish you had done differently starting out that you could give advice on?

Oh, you bet yer sweet bippy, there are things we should have done differently. First thing I'd do differently, is to not count on my own improved mobility. If you want to stay there, for the rest of your life(that was my plan!), it would probably be a good idea to not park yourself on 29acres of ridges and ravines. Gentle landscape variations are much easier to traverse, after an injury, no matter what age you are, but the body does things differently, as it ages, and the barn on top of the hill with the house halfway down it has made offgrid winter critter care beyond difficult. We also didn't check the soil - that was not wise. We also didn't get a *good* home inspection - and we can't use the gorgeous fireplace that was one of the selling points we loved best. I'd *strongly* advise getting independent inspectors for hvac, plumbing, electricity, and chimnies.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:
* Once you start building permanent structures, what first? Is there a logical order to go in? Does it matter? Does it vary based on personal goals?

Plan your homestead zones carefully, instead of just going with whatever is already there (if anything is).  Our place was built as a summer home, not as a 24/7/365 home, much less a farm. So, if you purchase a pre-existing home, I'd advise paying attention to where existing outbuildings are in relation to the house, whether they will work for - or against you, as you work and live. We have one huge garage that has been great where it is - but the barn (used to be a 2car garage, I turned it into a barn) is situated perfectly for skewing where everything else is situated. 🙄 Really good property planning will depend on the land itself - both it's geology and geography. Our place is not a standard shape, at all, so planning anything before we had an idea of it's shape would have gone out the windows. That's why the 'zone' concept works so well. Where the house goes is the first step, while keeping in mind the driveway placement, well placement, power lines(if any), etc.

Lauren Pfaff wrote:
* What questions do you think I should be asking?

Anything and everything that comes to mind. Seriously - becoming a sponge will serve you well.

I like the "observe for one year" idea.   That's a great way to make sure you don't bulldoze some rare micro-eco-system to build your food forest.   You don't have to be there everyday, but when you are there, remember to map out where all the valuable and rare things are growing/living already.