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be nice

r ranson

steward & author

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Location: Left Coast Canada

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posted 7 months ago

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Today I shall add IMO and IMHO to the naughty word list (as soon as I finish writing this post).

We have a lot of text speak that has made it onto that list over the years, but these two are especially interesting.

To put "in my opinion" at the end of the post, means that the writer knows (consciously or subconsciously) that there is something in that post that is not nice or will likely offend the reader. So they put 'in my opinion' as a way of defending themselves from any reprisal.

A strong example of this is ending a communication with "no offence"

You stink,
no offence.

Therefore if someone complains about being told they stink, they are just making a um, stink about something that wasn't meant to offend.

Of course, comments on personal hygiene problems are obviously going to offend. And quite often, putting IMO afterwards, just makes that offence worse because the author knew it wasn't nice.

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Josh Hoffman

master pollinator

Posts: 569

Location: Louisville, MS. Flirting with 8B

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posted 7 months ago

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r ranson wrote:Today I shall add --- and ---- to the naughty word list (as soon as I finish writing this post).

Ha ha I can't even quote your posted acronyms!

When sharing something that is ones experience or opinion, what is the appropriate qualifying remark? Or...

Can we assume that if we post something on permies that we have the best of intentions and do not need a qualifier? Or...

Are the staff able to discern whether I really mean to qualify this as my opinion or if it is more like the qualifier of "please don't be offended, but...I'm fixin' to offend you"

My life is made up of opinions and I try to be very careful on my wording. I do spell out terms like "in my opinion" or "my view is" because I deplore acronyms and I do want folks to understand "mileage may vary".

If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

"The genius of American farm experts is very well demonstrated here: they can take a solution and divide it neatly into two problems." -Wendell Berry

Timothy Norton

Steward of piddlers

Posts: 6161

Location: Upstate NY, Zone 5, 43 inch Avg. Rainfall

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posted 7 months ago

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Josh Hoffman wrote:
If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

It is indeed the acronyms.

Context is everything, sometimes we just need to clarify. :)

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Josh Hoffman

master pollinator

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Location: Louisville, MS. Flirting with 8B

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posted 7 months ago

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Timothy Norton wrote:

Josh Hoffman wrote:
If you are only banning the acronyms, I am in full support.

It is indeed the acronyms.

Context is everything, sometimes we just need to clarify. :)

I like it. Posting helpful replies and starting helpful threads indeed warrants the time taken to not use acronyms. Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate all the effort it takes to make this a great site.

Funny how this did end up being about context.....

"The genius of American farm experts is very well demonstrated here: they can take a solution and divide it neatly into two problems." -Wendell Berry

Jay Angler

master steward

Posts: 13827

Location: Pacific Wet Coast

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posted 7 months ago

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Josh Hoffman wrote:...My life is made up of opinions and I try to be very careful on my wording. I do spell out terms like "in my opinion" or "my view is" because I deplore acronyms and I do want folks to understand "mileage may vary".

In general, I think that so long as staff see lots of "I" statements, and that they read as "nice", we assume the person is speaking from their own point of view, and the 'opinion' word isn't necessary. If you feel it is, then likely you're discussing something very controversial, so being extra careful to give personal examples, seems like a good idea.

I try to focus on what I think I should do, and not imply it will be the same for others. Keeping permies a kind and supportive place takes a lot of work from a lot of volunteers. As a pollinator, we not only want you to write kindly, we want you to report it if you see unkind writing. That means that you've got skin in the game of keeping permies the nicest social media site on the interwebs.

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r ranson

steward & author

Posts: 42502

Location: Left Coast Canada

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posted 7 months ago

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Sharing opinions and expirence are wonderful. Most people do this naturally and kindly.

However, using "it's my opinion " at the end of a post as an excuse to be rude isn't very nice.

I hesitated to add those two to the naughty list as they are excellent indicators when moderating as to who is escalating the conflict. I see that at the end of the post, and it makes moderating so much easier.

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Josh Hoffman

master pollinator

Posts: 569

Location: Louisville, MS. Flirting with 8B

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posted 7 months ago

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This all makes very good sense to me. The nuances of internet communication take a lot careful thought. I appreciate what you all do.

"The genius of American farm experts is very well demonstrated here: they can take a solution and divide it neatly into two problems." -Wendell Berry

Rachel Lindsay

gardener

Posts: 1416

Location: Tennessee

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posted 6 months ago

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This "be nice" rule has changed how I write any and all messages ever.

Before Permies: I would write what I thought, not considering what the thoughts sound like outside my mind.
After Permies: I write what I think, then I delete all things that might come across badly, and I add extra context to what is left.

It has been a beautiful thing. I am more sure now of being understood as I meant to be, since I am not expecting anyone to read my mind. I feel more satisfied with my communications of all kinds--text messages, e-mails, blog comments, posts...and I expect I will get better as I keep practicing!

“If we are honest, we can still love what we are, we can find all the good there is to find, and we may find ways to enhance that good, and to find a new kind of living world which is appropriate for our time.” ― Christopher Alexander

Jay Angler

master steward

Posts: 13827

Location: Pacific Wet Coast

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posted 5 months ago

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Nice means accepting people for who they are, not judging a book by its cover, accepting differences, allowing people to think outside the box, respecting everyone, ... add your own feelings here.

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Christopher Weeks

master gardener

Posts: 4758

Location: Carlton County, Minnesota, USA: 3b; Dfb; sandy loam; in the woods

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posted 3 weeks ago

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The best part of the 'be nice' rule here is how it's encouraged me to state my experiences instead of telling people they're wrong, even in other venues! It makes me a better interlocutor.

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Nancy Reading

steward and tree herder

Posts: 10945

Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year

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posted 2 weeks ago

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Jay Angler wrote:Nice means accepting people for who they are

I think if someone is flying a particular flag (looking for like minds) it's nice to ignore it if you're not interested in that shade of purple (or green :D ). You don't have to say anything at all.

Vegan? Pagan? Tradwife? Tree dweller? It's all OK.

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Fred Frank V Bur

Posts: 290

posted 1 week ago

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I am a lot of things that are more distinct from others. I am vegan, I am Christian, I am seeking others into growing things together on good land with adequate water for sustainable living becoming separate from civilization. I need to bring things as these up for connection.

Nancy Reading

steward and tree herder

Posts: 10945

Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year

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posted 1 week ago

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Exactly Fred! Someone else may be carnivore, pagan and based in an urban flat, but we all get together here on permies, and agree to disagree!
If it is appropriate to mention your views without implying someone else is wrong that's fine, but if it isn't relevant move on to another topic. Any discussion belongs in cider press.

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Christopher Weeks

master gardener

Posts: 4758

Location: Carlton County, Minnesota, USA: 3b; Dfb; sandy loam; in the woods

2522

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posted 5 days ago

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Bump!

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https://permies.com/t/359868/montana-community-seeking-people-gardeners