dream big

Isthe dreaming really the problem? Or is it the inertia, the never stepping beyond the dreams?

Some people can never take the step for one reason or another. For some I'd say it was their own doing, but for others, it's an outside force preventing them. And sometimes those inspirational seminars are actually very helpful. It can put the dream seeds into someone's brain. It can nudge some seeds already there to sprout. And it can encourage others to take their first wobbly baby steps towards their dreams. In past years I sent my employees out repeatedly to inspirational seminars. One was not enough, it was the constantly repeated encouragement that kickstarted most of them to pursue at least a tiny bit of a dream. Sadly (my perspective only) only one seized the day and ran off to make her dream into reality. Sadly, most people are stuck on the dream phase.

One really good thing came out of all those inspirational seminars. While it wasn't the seminars themselves that gave me to giant kick in my ass, they gave me the courage to pursue my own dream. My second life started 2001 and I've never stopped pursuing my own lifelong dream.

I love this. Dreaming is great, but actions achieve.

However, getting past that first step and gaining momentum is really difficult.

I use to get a kind of stage fright every time I had to write an exam in school. There I was, in a classroom, knew my stuff, but suddenly I have to write an essay on demand!?! Horrid! Couldn't do it. On my desk there was a pile of blank sheets of paper, waiting for my essay. Two hours to write the essay, an hour in, I haven't written a word. One day, I took each of these pieces of paper and wrote on the top of each one "this page is no longer blank". From there on, a two-hour essay was easy to write in under half an hour. I wrote like the wind blows. From there on in, whenever I have to write something on demand, I write "This page is no longer blank" on the top of the page. I don't know why it works, but those few words seem to make all the difference in the world. Sent me from barely passing to A plus with honours.

Then the internet was born. This was amazing because now I was no longer limited to my local library if I wanted to learn something.

Then I discovered forums. It was in forums, that I discovered the you-cant-cha people.

Imagine the playwright in the comic went to night school or wherever, to learn how to write. Imagine the teacher, instead of teaching how to write, spent the entire 6 months talking about how difficult it is, how none of them will be able to finish a script, and even if they did, they are too pathetic and unimportant for anyone to take notice. They would be crushed, stop dreaming, stop doing, go home and get fat eating ice cream.

That starting momentum to go from dreaming to doing is so important. I think, it's also exceptionally fragile. Those stuck in the dreaming stage and the disillusioned stage, can so easily destroy the momentum of those just setting out on the doing path. I feel it's the responsibility of people who have already started doing, to help those who are just getting going.

Re: the responsibility of those already doing to help those who are just starting.

YES! Is that not part of the third ethic of permaculture? I take my excess built up momentum, enthusiasm, knowledge and give some of it away to people just starting out. For me it's in the form of hosting a community garden where people can come to share knowledge, gain knowledge, experiment, and try fresh foods that they've help grow. I spend one morning each week sharing my excess.

opportunity is often missed because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Everything in life is about balance.

Dreams are good but at some point if a person wants to actually live the dream then they must start by committing to achieve the dream.

I admire those people who can just walk up to the bull and grasp it by the horns. But I've not been able to do that. Everything I've accomplished since 2001 has been by taking baby steps. Once I force myself to take a dozen wobbly, fearful baby steps on some project, I can then begin to stride out fairly well. It's not that I'd label myself a failed dreamer or a non-self starter type. It's just that I'm hesitant in the beginning. But ya know, here I am 15 years later with a 20 acre homestead farm. That's cool! And guess what!......I'm no longer afraid of failure, of being wrong, or of looking the fool. Working on my dream has been good. Not without bumps, but good none the less.

Su Ba wrote:I admire those people who can just walk up to the bull and grasp it by the horns. But I've not been able to do that. Everything I've accomplished since 2001 has been by taking baby steps. Once I force myself to take a dozen wobbly, fearful baby steps on some project, I can then begin to stride out fairly well. It's not that I'd label myself a failed dreamer or a non-self starter type. It's just that I'm hesitant in the beginning. But ya know, here I am 15 years later with a 20 acre homestead farm. That's cool! And guess what!......I'm no longer afraid of failure, of being wrong, or of looking the fool. Working on my dream has been good. Not without bumps, but good none the less.

Good for you! Su in my way of thinking it's not about being a bull or about being cautious it's about doing. I know so many people who live in fear of failure that they are stagnate & think so poorly of themselves, it's just a shame.

When I was younger I wanted to go to university to study law but I did not have the funds to pay for it.  Each year one of the big local law firms gave out a scholarship that covered all the costs of tuition for the whole course of study.  My friend and I were both about the same academically but she said to me "Well, only one person can win so why bother to apply?".  I said "Well, they have to give it to someone: why not me?".

So I applied and I won it. In fact, I had already interviewed and been accepted at university before I knew how I was going to pay for it.  It was a big leap of faith but I have always found that you have to commit to yourself and your goal even if you cannot see how it is going to be fulfilled.  This is one of my favourite quotes:

"Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.  Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too.

All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issue from the decision, raising in one's favour all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way."

Scottish Himalayan
Exhibition
     

One can either dream the dream or live the dream. Choose wisely.

There are always obstacles. Find a solution. Then make it happen. One baby step at a time. One foot in front of the other.

Be not afraid of moving slowly only be afraid of standing still. Chinese proverb.

To me dreams are supposed to be acted out, not sat about.
I think it is a lot like taking a hypothesis to theory to proof to law in science those are the steps and you rarely get a hypothesis without some dreaming but from there it is the work that takes you the rest of the way.

Usually to get a mathematics doctorate you have to have an original thought that you take all the way to theory at the least.
It is the requirement, and If you don't dream, how could you come up with the original thought?
But then you must start doing the work or all  you've done is waste your time (Like the two girls in Paul's first post).

Redhawk

Realistic dreams are a part of making hard work.
One may dream of having 100 acre food forest & training campus to teach the world, sounds great & can happen if you have $100,000,000.00.
But if you live in the city & have only a small amount of mad money at the end of the looog work week, then what?
Use what you have, the mortgage is holding you back, but it give you a quarter of an acre back yard.
With the mad money you build raised beds, arbors, a small green house & fruit trees.
Okay no training campus, but you are doing & learning, some one will notice & you can tell them/ teach them about what you are doing.
Bloom where you are planted, no pun intended.

Wow, this thread touched a nerve unexpectedly.  One of my biggest self-criticisms is feeling like I'm always just dreaming about what I want.  It's been a pretty shitty decade for me in almost every way.  That's also about the time-frame of my dream of owning a farm.  When I started going through all of this I took some time to try to figure out what I really wanted to do for the rest of my life.  I had grown up in a rural area, worked dairy, cash crop and at the feed store before going to university and I thoroughly enjoyed the work, especially milking.  So I figured that's what I would like to get back to, but in a way that made sense to me.  So that's been my end-game for about a decade.

Long story short:  I have a degree in civil engineering but started in electrical/mechanical engineering fields.  I'm unemployable as a civil but I have used it when I was in a partnership.  I've lost everything through divorce and getting forced out of the business.  Fun times.

But reading through the posts really got me thinking and made me really look at how far I've come.  I've noticed that I've been feeling much better about where I'm at, which is pretty laughable, but I've tried to put the last 10 years to use as I could.  I've had many set-backs but overall I've made a lot of progress.  I got electricity about 3 weeks ago, so 2 weeks ago I built an incubator and started eggs, started seedlings, and got chickens on very short notice on a shoe-string budget.  I couldn't buy a farm (still can't) but I'm renting a few acres that I can stay on so now I can start bringing it all together.  Without the experience I've gained from doing as much as I could get away with for the last 10 years, I wouldn't be able to jump into what I'm able to do now.  I don't think I appreciated that until reading through the thread.

The dreaming, though, has been an important part for me.  There have been a few times where that was just about all I could do and I feel very fortunate to have a plan at those times.  One thing I realised about myself reading this is that, while I've been doing a lot of dreaming for the last 10 years, I've mostly been dreaming about my next step.  I think that's been helpful.  I've also been doing as much doing as I could, but I guess I often lose that perspective.  

Thanks to everyone who has posted.  

Timothy Markus, you have a degree & was in a business, that a lot of dreams coming to past.
You will get the other dream in time.
Chin up, we are all pulling for you, you get the land & some of us, who live to far to drive over to help you, will send you cutting of our perennials to get you started.
I have figs & muscadines & will be collecting more every year.

Timothy Markus wrote:There have been a few times where that was just about all I could do

My health crashed VERY unexpectedly in 1996, I lost my business, my ability to work for a living, my friends, my relationship, my sanity. Over the next 15 years, some years were just bad, some I can't remember, and some I wish I didn't remember. There were years on end when I could do nothing but dream. I'd read books or the net, and draw designs for imaginary houses, give myself parameters, and create something to fit them.

The end result of this though, is that now when I am more stable, and was able to buy land, now that I have parameters for real, I am experienced at designing houses, and was way ahead of the game that way.

Sometimes, when things are bad, dreams are a great place to live, and it's even better if you get that chance to make them real. :)  I planned to start construction this spring, was ready, when the crap hit. Depending on how the Covid stuff shakes out, if the dream I want doesn't happen, I'll know how to design new ones to fit altered parameters.

This popped up in my email feed ...  

this morning I was looking over our new dailyish signup stuff.  It has been about four years of hard work, and it has been spread out over four years because this is not the fun work.  This is work.  Grind, grind, grind ...   But is is very important.  Nicole, Devaka and Bill have been helping a lot.  But we are now seeing strong growth!

This morning I also caught up on the site traffic stuff.  About a hundred people have access to the information, but I am the only one that summarizes it.   It is boring work that must be done.  The good news is that my permaculture empire has now received 151 million visits.  So about 151 million people.  And last month was a record month.  And it looks like this month will be a record month.

I produced the book, the movies/videos, podcasts, articles ...  I desperately need to get them into more brains and use the money to get them into even more brains.

The projects here:  allerton abbey is ready for the first year of proper annualized thermal intertia tests.  And the earthworks and fence are underway to create a magnificent permaculture garden.  We have quite a few boots in the bootcamp program and more boots on the way.   The berm shed is done and looking excellent.  And I hope we finish cooper cabin this year.  

On any given day, there are over a hundred people helping me.  It is definitely a community effort.  

The cartoon at the top of this thread is magnificent.  The dreamers often stop by to tell me that I'm doing it all wrong - and the only way to succeed is to be obedient to them.

I have so many arrows in me from haters and trolls, I suppose it looks a bit like a thick fur coat.   And the #1 thing that trumps office politics is productivity.  

I think me and my friends are changing the world.   And 95% of it is boring work.  Making reports.  Testing software.  Dealing with icky people.  Customer support.  Prioritizing lists.  Meetings. Emails.  Recording.  Editing.  Tidying up.  Digging holes.  Tripping trees.  Sorting out disputes.  Conveying information.  Teaching the 15th person the same thing in the hopes that they will actually do what was agreed to.  

That's what this thread needs:   a list of 200 boring chores that need to be done to make a permaculture dream come true.  

I hope that all of the boring work that thousands of people have put into these forums over the last 15 years makes it so that millions of people can achieve their permaculture dreams with a bit less boring work.

Timothy Markus wrote:

But reading through the posts really got me thinking and made me really look at how far I've come.  I've noticed that I've been feeling much better about where I'm at, which is pretty laughable, but I've tried to put the last 10 years to use as I could.  I've had many set-backs but overall I've made a lot of progress.

 

Timothy: With your great attitude, I have no doubt you will make a success of what you are doing now.  It takes guts to move on and make a new life for yourself.  

PS.  I really appreciate the pie.  Thanks:)

Back in the 80s I took over a failing NPO.  According to the newspaper, prior to my arrival, it was looking into bankruptcy.  The organization has the best planners on earth.  Everything was carefully researched.  Reports were written. Nothing was implemented.  Nothing could be implemented because no one was willing to take a risk.   There was 6000 square feet of broken equipment ....no one would throw any of it out. No one would repair it. Both actions involved risk.  To see progress, someone has to pull the trigger. Someone has to assume responsibility. Someone has to make it work.

To add to this, I have found that the fear of success is often far greater than the fear of failure. It makes sense. For most risks, if we fail, we stay where we are. We know where that is. However much we might complain, we are comfortable where we are. It is familiar territory. Now, if we are successful, our entire universe might change. We will have to make changes....we will have to make more decisions ........you know, I think I will stop writing this and grab a cup of coffee ...it is just easier....

I tend to me more action orientated. I like Mario Andretti's comment, "If you ever feel like you are in complete control, you aren't driving fast enough."  Which leads to a personal weakness of mine.  While I am excellent at implementing the visions of others, I am not much of a visionary myself.

I had a dream 2 or 3 nights ago, in the dream I knew I was at Wheaton Labs, checking out an impressive ~10 ft  shear-walled trench cut into solid grey rock, it might have been about 15 ft across and twice as long.  I'm meandering around and checking out the stone in the walls as I'm lamenting letting go of all the progress I had made growing cool/cold wet season vegetables in Oregon's maritime air...there would be none of that going on here.  I exit the large rock trench and see plain white medium sized building, basically a box a short distance away, that says "Deutsch Bank" on the side.  Then I wake up and can't fall back asleep for like an hour, because the mind is compulsively mulling it over, like what the hell was with that?  Surely I haven't read about anything about Deutsche Bank in like, a few years...

So I won't be taking any action with regard to that dream, but finger crossed some major financial institution will be crossing over into some long term soil building investment haha.

Like others have said here, most of acheiving a dream is drudging through menial/annoying/boring/difficult work. Most of the time arriving at your dream will take years, that is if you are strong enough and brave enough to persist through setbacks, failures, and learning as you go. There will probably be moments when the most practical thing seems to be quitting, just giving up and going back to being "normal". But if you do stick with it, and you start beginning to look like you are acheiving something, you will most likely attract people who are not just naysayers, but who will actively try to sabotage you. Then you will have to learn to wade through those who want to latch onto your success, suck energy and status out of your hard work, and maybe even take credit for what you've done. If you still arrive at your goal after all of this, you and your dream have been refined by fire. So then it isn't just a dream anymore, but you and your dream have become your own new creation. And I suspect that there would be a sort of watershed effect after this, in which you know what it takes to accomplish something and you are able to create new dreams and acheive them with more ease and rapidity. Maybe this is what we call success.

In my experience, most of what makes a dream anything more than just a pretty idea in someone's head, is a lot of bravery and a certain sort of maverick mindset. So to me there are talkers, then there are doers. Both have dreams, but only one has the strength to carry them through to reality. Sadly, I have seen people who truly were doers who turned into talkers because life just hit them too hard. Me, I was always doing something, but I wasn't able to really acheive anything until I learned *how* to dream. I think it was Pearl who said that she spent years practicing dreaming until she was finally able to start realizing her ideas. So even in dreaming there must be discipline and intelligence.

I always felt that my dreams were an escape for me, something to hold onto during the long months and years of working and hoping. I could never have made it through those hard times without my dreams being a nice place for me to go mentally when I didn't really want to be where I was. But now that I feel like I have more agency and freedom in my life, I make a distinction between what is fantasy and what is truly acheivable. It took me a long time to learn that difference, long hours of work in which I was constantly turning things over in my head and observing which things worked and which ones were just ridiculous. I guess the refining fire burned off some of the fluff and left me with the crazy good stuff. Let's hope!

I just feel the urge to bump this.  

I wanna salute the people that actually do cool permaculture stuff and share a picture or video from time to time.  

I wanna thank all the permies.com staff, the people in the permaculture bootcamp and all the fools helping me with all my projects so we can make a massive difference.

Beautiful things are borne from hundreds of hours of boring work.

paul wheaton wrote:
I hope that all of the boring work that thousands of people have put into these forums over the last 15 years makes it so that millions of people can achieve their permaculture dreams with a bit less boring work.

I believe that THAT hope of yours is coming to fruition. Thanks for doing the boring work!

paul wheaton wrote:I just feel the urge to bump this.  

I wanna salute the people that actually do cool permaculture stuff and share a picture or video from time to time.  

I wanna thank all the permies.com staff, the people in the permaculture bootcamp and all the fools helping me with all my projects so we can make a massive difference.

Beautiful things are borne from hundreds of hours of boring work.

I came to say this - and am glad to see i already did.  

Just another day of grind.  With a lot of people doing work elbow-to-elbow.  For every nincompoop that screams on the internet that I'm stupid or that permies.com is stupid, or that permaculture is stupid, there are about a hundred people putting in the work to build a better world.  

And, the point of this thread, for every builder, there are about 20 dreamers.  

When a few of those dreamers are ready to become builders, we are ready to have some help.  There is a lot of work to be done. And it is work.

Great post.. Talk minus action equals zero. The day after Christmas I celebrated four years of work with no days off. What sounds like an unimaginable grind to most is the true cost of living an independent life. I’m trying to form a community, and hope to balance the work load in the future.. but for now I will continue to work as I manifest my dreams through blood, sweat, and cheers! Happy New Years to Permies and all..

The woman in the image spent a year writing a script.  

What are the results of spending a year doing permaculture?

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives in an apartment.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives on a three acre homestead.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

I'm putting these questions "out there" in the hopes that people with knowledge will provide answers so that people with full time jobs (sometimes in an apartment) can get an idea of what they can do build a glorious permaculture life - if that is what they want to do.

paul wheaton wrote:The woman in the image spent a year writing a script.  

What are the results of spending a year doing permaculture?

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives in an apartment.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives on a three acre homestead.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

I'm putting these questions "out there" in the hopes that people with knowledge will provide answers so that people with full time jobs (sometimes in an apartment) can get an idea of what they can do build a glorious permaculture life - if that is what they want to do.

Regardless of the results, anyone participating in a natural lifestyle gains the benefit of reconnecting with the “real”. Being outdoors, using their muscles, breathing fresh air, and the satisfaction of participating in their own survival. Much of the modern dream of the world is unnecessary, and was invented to keep you on the hamster wheel of production and consumption for the enrichment of weak and lazy connivers.

As weak as I am at it, at 62 I finally know how important some dreaming is. If you don't have your dream that means you are just shoring up the dream of another/others. While contributing to the well-being of others makes life sweet, fulfilling ones own dreams also makes life meaningful.

The difference between those who are struck in dreaming and those who achieve is actually expectation of success It is true of losing weight, getting rid of an addiction or owning the perfect homestead. Dreaming "big" as it was stated is a very pleasant but wasteful thing, by itself. I am dreaming 'big" of losing 45 Lbs. I daydream 'Big" of the cool clothes I'll wear, the looks I'll attract, the compliments I'll get. That's all for naught. On the other hand, I can decide to not eat any junk in between meals and mark my progress daily, eat smaller portions and stop just before I'm full, asking myself: "Can I last until the next meal. It will be slow and probably I will not see any difference on the scale, but  as I persevere, I will see progress. It will be when I see progress that my hope/ expectation of success will develop.
Do not knock daydreaming: I defy anyone on this forum or out to achieve a goal without first conceptualize it, hoping and daydreaming that the goal can be achieved. You will also need a lot more daydreaming if the goal is hard or expensive to achieve or if you have no experience in that field.
What makes the difference is actually dreaming, because without dreaming, you will never get going and take the baby steps that will build in you the confidence that it is achievable. Once you sense that it is achievable, you will trot like a hard ridden horse smelling the stable: No one will be able to stop you.
But first, you need to daydream, conceptualize... figure out which baby steps you can achieve. That is most useful too, and it is the foundation of the solid house you will build. Nothing will happen without it.
You can trust that advice: I was a School teacher.

Barbara Kochan wrote:As weak as I am at it, at 62 I finally know how important some dreaming is. If you don't have your dream that means you are just shoring up the dream of another/others. While contributing to the well-being of others makes life sweet, fulfilling ones own dreams also makes life meaningful.

Thank you for this little message, Barbara. I'm 59  and unsure if I should continue. (Here comes the whining.) We really want to grow in self-sufficiency and relive our rural upbringing while we are still fit enough. We seized a rural opportunity but after 3 years of weekending and 4 years full-time at the wannabe farm, there doesn't seem like much advancement toward our goals. I want to raise and butcher our own meat and preserve the garden produce (and I have done some already).  Hubby wants peace and simplicity. We have the hobby farmers' classic dilema: enough water, electricity, income and willpower to get started but not enough to thrive. My dear husband has his own dreams and, between hard physical work, off-farm employment and the frigid winters, he's just about ready to sell the farm, literally and figuratively.  
So it's a choice between compromising both our dreams or only one. I haven't got the answer but at least I know others face the same question.

Paul wrote: "Suppose a person has a full time job and lives in an apartment."

That's an interesting question. For many farmers I know (including myself) a full time (farm) job is daylight. That means for us, a "full time" job is at its shortest, 8 hrs. (and many farmers work out to the barn after dark). And a full-time job during Summer is 4 hrs. and 17 minutes longer. There have been many days I worked long into the night. Putting up hay until 11:00, then going in to have dinner and sleep, and getting up again at six. You might get off a few hours on a Sunday morning, but otherwise, it's seven days a week.

~~And for many not farmers, the definition of a full-time job is 8 hrs. a day for 5 days. Hard to make a comparison between what is full-time for farmers and for city folks.

Cute cartoon, but it seems to imply that there are only two kinds of people in the world--those who dream, and those who do. There are also dreamers who do things, and doers who dream. Yes there are dreamers who only dream, and doers who only do, but those are extremes. Most people do not live at extremes. Most people live in the middle.

Not all dreamers are head-in-the-clouds do-nothings who think they know how everything should be done (even though they haven't done anything). Not all doers are mindless drones who are working for someone else's vision and not for anything that will benefit them. People have this tendency to not fit into neat little boxes, when we allow them to be themselves. And honestly it would be much easier if we did just fit into boxes and could yell "Get back in your box" whenever anyone is out of line.

I say dream it, and then do it. Get the best of both.

I think the "do" people also did the dreaming.  

I think for every person that does the doing part, there are 40 people stuck in "dream" and never do.

I am really hoping that this thread will have guidance for the people that find they are stuck in "dream" and wanna get into "do."

paul wheaton wrote:The woman in the image spent a year writing a script.  

What are the results of spending a year doing permaculture?

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives in an apartment.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

Suppose a person has a full time job and lives on a three acre homestead.  What does a year of hard work of permaculture on the side look like for them?  

I'm putting these questions "out there" in the hopes that people with knowledge will provide answers so that people with full time jobs (sometimes in an apartment) can get an idea of what they can do build a glorious permaculture life - if that is what they want to do.

30 years ago I started a new business on a shoestring and worked nights and weekends at the hospital to make ends meet until my health food store was more established.  Determined to make my heavily mortgaged 3 acre homestead also work I did that too.  Bought Registered Angora rabbits, put them in separate wire cages and hung from the open shed rafters to keep safe until I could make better arrangements the next day.  Came home off the midnight shift to find it was sleeting and blowing in on the rabbits.  So worried about them, I went out, exhausted as I was from having just worked 20 hours straight, and nailed up a board wall on the shed to keep it from blowing in.  Freezing all the while.  Broke my pinkie finger as I worked, so set it myself after I finished the boards.  I could not feel it as it was semi frozen, but the joint pulled apart when I came in and noticed how crooked it was.  

I planted a French Intensive double dug garden in a chain link pen behind the house and it was a veritable Garden of Eden.  10 x 10 and it was all the vegetables  I needed.  Green beans and sugar snaps, cukes grew on the fence.  Planted too thick so hard to walk in without stepping all over tomatoes.  Today I lean more toward no till after the initial digging to clear out roots and rocks and I’ ve learned to allow more spacing.  

I seem to recall I worked like that for about 40 years, and eventually it catches up to you.   But that two or three jobs at a time gave me the money to eventually buy a bigger homestead, and have the farm I always wanted.  I’ve always been a “do or die” kind of person.  Failure has never been an option.