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Low heat thermal turbine.  RSS feed

 
Peter Mckinlay
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By engaging fridge physics a refrigerant liquid is boiled to a high pressure gas and then cooled to liquid of lower heat than the surrounding air temperature.

To commence the operating one inserts a block of Dry-Ice then leaves alone. It will constantly run thereafter as the liquid return to the boiler is cold.

How it works is that liquid blocks the refrigerant from getting to the expansion cooling chamber. The refrigerant in the boiler builds up enough pressure to remove the liquid blockage and thus allow the hot refrigerant gas to pass to the expansion cooling chamber. High pressure gas having moved the liquid to free the gas path to cooling then uses the opportunity to make it to cooling. During this process cold refrigerant rushes to refill the boiler and the liquid runs back down to block the gas passage again. All is home made and posted as Open Technology.
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Peter Mckinlay
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Viewed the video, no link whatsoever! That appearing is a wood stove, not a refrigeration mechanism used in power production!
 
Abe Connally
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have you built this? could you post photos of the construction process? where to get turbines and parts?
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Hello Abe,

Built in plastic (air test) and Aluminium, both no turbine. Build is attached.

Refrigerant insertion is done by Dry-Ice. Other gasses may be used.
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Creighton Samuiels
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I don't understand. Where does the dry ice go? What is driving the turbine?
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Hello Creighton,

The Dry-Ice is placed in the heater. Thereafter it returns as gas. Water is driving the hydro turbine. Water is 100% the pressure of the CO2.
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Hello Abe,

Apologies,

Parts! Pipe. Pipe reducer. One way valve- Plumbers shop. Squash ball -squash court.
.
DaS-Valve.png
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Abe Connally
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so you have this running? could you show us some photos of the unit and a build sequence?

what sort of pressures are we looking at? would PVC/galvanized pipe work?

how much heat must be applied to keep the process running?
 
Creighton Samuiels
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What do you expect to happen once the dry ice is gone?
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Abe Connally wrote:so you have this running? could you show us some photos of the unit and a build sequence?

what sort of pressures are we looking at? would PVC/galvanized pipe work?

how much heat must be applied to keep the process running?


Hello Abe,

Cannot assist with photos. Can supply a build sequence. Pressures are 1 bar at -40*C. 10,000 bar +100*C. Any piping will work so long it able to take the pressure. One litre of heat per second is required.
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Peter Mckinlay
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Creighton Samuiels wrote:What do you expect to happen once the dry ice is gone?


Dependant on heat I expect the solid Dry-Ice to be gas of low pressure acting like gas, or gas at high pressure acting like liquid.
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Hello Abe,

The build sequence is best do the DaS Valve first.

When completed DaS Valve and filled with water, draw upon it as gas can become locked in at first fill. Then after no gas trap occurs.
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allen lumley
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et al : think of it as a pump that works off of the heat energy, its a very simplistic answer But, when, not if, this can be made from parts made on a 3-d printer -
(rocket exhaust nozzles by collage students any one?! ) This too is doable !Big AL !
 
Peter Mckinlay
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allen lumley wrote:et al : think of it as a pump that works off of the heat energy, its a very simplistic answer But, when, not if, this can be made from parts made on a 3-d printer -
(rocket exhaust nozzles by collage students any one?! ) This too is doable !Big AL !


Hello Allan,
Spot on description.
I never thought of a 3d printer.

Our work pipe with central pipe reducer screwed in makes seat for squash ball float. Squash ball makes all one way valves when situated correct. Car water pump an excellent hydro turbine.

You mention rocket exhaust nozzles. The word nozzle gets to me. A water nozzle is used in the force plus equal opposite force two hydro turbine set up. Though the system engages liquid to gas.
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allen lumley
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Peter McKiney : People who are not following developments in 3D printing are going to be another generation of Illiterates !

A hundred dollar bribe took care of moving to the head of the 3D printer line at a Hackerspace, now I just need to get a 70 yr old inventer there to see what can be done,
he is crying in his (Canadian) Beer over re-tooling costs with an estimate of $10,000.oo before his first piece is delivered ! Big Al !
 
Abe Connally
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Peter Mckinlay wrote:
Pressures are 1 bar at -40*C. 10,000 bar +100*C.

10K bar?!?!?! holy cow!

I don't know much pipe that will handle that kind of pressure.


Peter Mckinlay wrote:One litre of heat per second is required.

I don't understand this figure. What is a litre of heat?

Ok, let's talk about a practical build for a small off-grid home. I have a hot water storage tank that stays around 50C year round. It holds 1200 l of water. It's heated with solar panels in the day.

I would like to use heat from that tank to produce, say, 50 watts of electricity constantly.

How big of a system would I need to build to do that? What pipe sizes and turbine options are available for a build like that?

I assume I need a cold side as well. I have several cisterns of water, 40,000 l in size, typically around 15C year round. Would that be enough of a temperature difference to power this system?
 
allen lumley
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Peter McKinlay :Have you taken a close look at the way the Pelton Cups are shaped and mounted to receive the spray from the nozzle?

TheWater first hits a sharks tooth point, splitting the water stream into two streams that hit siamese 'd 1/2 cups and rebounding back off, increasing contact time,
and the 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction' event within a very narrow window of incidence !

sorry about my word choice, tell me a better way to say it

This leaves us with well drained cups, and like the way a single piston in a 'V-8 engine is carried along until its next power stroke, the 20-ish cups work as a team
( with much less friction than our V-8 image ) what would the temperatures there be !

Again, This seems a perfect match to developing 3D Tech.!

Go to - ' pioneer-sys.net/microhydro.htm ' - the sketch at the bottom of the page is better than several videos i have seen !

Central pipe Reducer ? = Bell reducer= two sets of female threaded openings? and that was not a misprint on the# of BARs ? For the craft ! Big AL !
 
Peter Mckinlay
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Abe Connally wrote:
Peter Mckinlay wrote:

Hello Abe,
Pressures are 1 bar at -40*C. 10,000 bar +100*C.

10K bar?!?!?! holy cow!

&20 watts for each litre of gas/water per second at 9 bar pressure.

I don't know much pipe that will handle that kind of pressure.

Stainless steel is lighter than using line pipe for high pressures.

Peter Mckinlay wrote:One litre of heat per second is required.

I don't understand this figure. What is a litre of heat?

A litre of heat is the heat need to raise the heat of one litre of liquid to a required heating.

Ok, let's talk about a practical build for a small off-grid home. I have a hot water storage tank that stays around 50C year round. It holds 1200 l of water. It's heated with solar panels in the day.

I would like to use heat from that tank to produce, say, 50 watts of electricity constantly.

Our work is generally with KW and MW, however a Pelton micro will suffice your needs.

How big of a system would I need to build to do that? What pipe sizes and turbine options are available for a build like that?

Flow rate and pressure for 50 amps you would need refer to micro Pelton. Without that is pure guess to size of piping etc. is needed. Micro Pelton are fully web available.

I assume I need a cold side as well. I have several cisterns of water, 40,000 l in size, typically around 15C year round. Would that be enough of a temperature difference to power this system?


The system is cyclic fridge so no extra cooling is needed. CO2 is a natural refrigerant. Absorption cycle it move from boiler -hot high pressure to expansion chamber where it turns cold -condenser. If using other gasses water cooling would be a great assist.
Build-sequence-one..png
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Peter Mckinlay
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Hello Abe,

A PS. Stainless steel piping is used for high heat CO2 +30*C to +100*C, 852 psi to 142,000 psi.

Lower variance between hot and cold reduces the working pressure to lighter piping down to plastics. Pressure can be compensated by volume per second to achieve the same wattage. See CO2 pressure chart Critical CO2.
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Peter Mckinlay
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allen lumley wrote:Peter McKinlay :Have you taken a close look at the way the Pelton Cups are shaped and mounted to receive the spray from the nozzle?

TheWater first hits a sharks tooth point, splitting the water stream into two streams that hit siamese 'd 1/2 cups and rebounding back off, increasing contact time,
and the 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction' event within a very narrow window of incidence !

sorry about my word choice, tell me a better way to say it

This leaves us with well drained cups, and like the way a single piston in a 'V-8 engine is carried along until its next power stroke, the 20-ish cups work as a team
( with much less friction than our V-8 image ) what would the temperatures there be !

Again, This seems a perfect match to developing 3D Tech.!

Go to - ' pioneer-sys.net/microhydro.htm ' - the sketch at the bottom of the page is better than several videos i have seen !

Central pipe Reducer ? = Bell reducer= two sets of female threaded openings? and that was not a misprint on the# of BARs ? For the craft ! Big AL !


Hello Allen,

Thank you for the post. We already engage Pelton technology. Pelton wheel stainless steel to plastic. When we first looked at 3D copy the strength available was not great enough to withstand 142,000 psi. However lower pressures 128 psi could be achieved, which ran into competition from blown plastic. Lower pressures further occur if wattage below 729 per litre of water flow is engaged. However we not yet into micro power, though don't shy away. Perhaps your friend may be of help here. The Pelton need to handle one litre of water per rotation. If he could supply a pressure his copier end product would handle we could speak further.

Peter
 
Abe Connally
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do you have documentation of a working prototype anywhere?
 
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