Advice about building this type of traditional Russian Masonry Heaters?

Russian Masonry Heaters? I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio and plan to move back in the future. As some may know, winters in Cleveland can be a bit intense. I was thinking of building a large traditional masonry heater, kind of like these Russian masonry heaters in these vids in the basement of an older, 1920s-1930s two-story house. I think the basement because I know these are way too heavy to ever put in a first or second story, and just way too big, but I thought it might work in the basement because its a concrete foundation. But I dont know if the heat would rise thru the home effectively or not. Here are the vids below, any advice anyone has would be appreciated.

Russian Masonry Heaters on Youtube

Печная Мастерская Авдеева Стецура


Русская Печь Тверская


Thank you

Welcome to Permies, Colleen! Those are spectacular works of art.

Traditional masonry heaters are quite complex internally, never mind the external decoration, and require an experienced builder to complete safely. In this forum we concentrate on much simpler to build versions, originally with ducts running through a mass and currently with stratification chambers or "bells", with fireboxes that are even more efficient than traditional masonry heaters.

We can give you advice and specifications that will let you safely and effectively build your own rocket masonry heater and be confident it will work without hiring a professional stove mason. The external decoration is up to you.

A masonry heater works best in the space to be heated, but I understand the reasons you may want to build in the basement. This can work if all conditions are right. A masonry heater does not need to be as big as the ones shown, depending on your climate and the size and character of your house. So how big is the house, how much insulation does it have, how drafty? What is the floor plan like, open or closed off rooms?

It is possible to put a heater on the ground floor with piers in the basement supporting it. This may not even be too complicated depending on your house.

Hi Colleen;
Although they do sell Russian masonry stove "kits," the cost is high, ranging from $ 5,000 to $10,000 or more, plus delivery.
Hiring a stove-certified mason to build you a work of art can cost $30,000.
Some states will let you assemble a kit on your own, and other states require a licensed masonry stove builder.
Other states will let you build your own stove (no kit), provided you follow the IBC International Building Code for masonry stoves.
Building yourself a beautiful masonry batchbox heater usually costs less than $2000.
A masonry stove built to IBC rules is insurable. Safe to be 4" from combustibles.
Photos are my single skin Shorty Core, weight is estimated to be #2500, and my 6" double skin first generation core, estimated to be #6000
Both sit in apx a 4' x 5'  area.

Hi there,
I should have said I am not interested in the exterior decoration, its beautiful, but a lot more time and money. I just like these cuz they are big, and in my uneducated opinion, size does matter in something like a masonry heater. I would think the more mass of masonry, the more heat, or at least longer heat it would give off.

OK, the kind of house, they are basically from the 1920s and 1930s, built before WWII, they are called doubles. Usually people own the house and rent out the other half to someone else. They have a full basement, where the furnace is located, and full attics that can be finished as another room. They are usually, typically between 2000 square feet and 3000 square feet. These kind of doubles often have a large full width front porch on the fist floor, and the same mirroring on the second floor. Sometimes people fully enclose the porch and insulate them for it to become another room to use year round.

Though I am not a stone mason, I do not believe a Russian Masonry Heater, let alone even a Rocket Mass Heater could built on the first floor in a house like these because of 1. the weight of these, and 2. the layout of the floorplan. There really is no where to put even a Rocket Mass Heater in these kind of older houses, and from an aesthetic design POV they would not blend in with these kind of older homes. These house have either baseboard heating, or older large radiators along walls and under windows, the place where one would typically put a Rocket Mass Heater, along an outside wall. This why I thought of having one built in the basement, there is already a concrete foundation that could support the weight on both of these. Large Russian Masonry Heaters in Russia even have beds on top of the heater itself, to show how big these are. Sometimes they can be over 6 feet tall, so these must weigh several tons

Thank you Thomas for your info, thats helpful. I did a website I think called Temp Cast that I think comes to peoples homes and builds them, but I know this gets expensive quick. I need to avoid massive costs like $30,000, for me that really defeats the point of doing some kind of heater. I of course want the house to be warmer, more comfortable at the same time as lowering my heating bill. The other thing I do think of all the code requirements when one is in a large urban area, govt. bureaucracy is more in your business. I did see that guy Uncle Mud is in the Cleveland area, so I guess my best bet would be to contact him.

Okay, so you are thinking half of a hypothetical duplex, not a particular house. One half would be in the neighborhood of 1000-1500 s.f. A RMH could be built to take care of that in about a 3' x 4' x 7' high footprint, with double skin for safety and mass.

You would typically put a RMH near the center of the house, so that no part is too far away from it. It needs an actual floor plan to get any more specific about size, shape and location.

Thank you for your info and help. Here are couple pics of the typical houses I am looking at. I am looking at these style because they are in my price range. Sorry I dont have interior pics right now, these pics are just off real estate websites

thomas rubino wrote:
Some states will let you assemble a kit on your own, and other states require a licensed masonry stove builder.
Other states will let you build your own stove (no kit), provided you follow the IBC International Building Code for masonry stoves.

I went to elementary school in Parma, jr high and high school in the Heights. I’ve moved away since then but heard from contractor friends that Cleveland Heights and University Heights are a nightmare to do big projects in because of all the ordinances and regulations. Shaker heights and Lakewood might be the same way.

Based on that my advice is to keep the project small enough you don’t need to pull a permit.

I’d also seriously think about the current heating system and whether it can’t be improved or modified for way less cost to produce equally good results.

Look at insulation and windows too; if the home has leaky windows and poor insulation (as many old Cleveland homes do) then beefing up the heating system will be a waste of money.

Thank you again for your info. Wow, Parma, I cant believe it. I grew up in Lorain County, then we moved into Lakewood, I graduated from LHS. I did see that link and intend to buy those vids. I do know that about most houses windows are the number one thing to try to improve, but I know they cost a fortune for the best. Before I moved away from Ohio, my friend in Strongsville got Pella windows for the whole house, over $20,000, that was 2000. Its probably $50,000 today, and the price of everything keeps going up every month.

I wouldnt even think of moving back to Lakewood today, we moved to Lakewood in 1984 and my mom regretted it because of the property taxes. I would think property taxes today would be impossible for the average person today. I would imagine Cleveland Heights-University Heights would be even worse. I am looking in the Brooklyn-Old Brooklyn-Garfield Heights-Maple Heights areas. I dont think I even want to stay in Cleveland permanently. My long range dream and goal is to build a completely off-grid underground house in West Virginia-Kentucky.

I was thinking of this, this guy is a contractor I think and created this system. He claims it can be built in weeks

He created prefab kit to self-build underground homes on a budget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1i-qWU1pPY&t=605s

Wisdom here from Ned Harr
Thanks, your opinion seems to be timely , and a pillar of common sense.  You advocate a broad approach that examines 'the big picture'

By considering climate, , wood supply, home insurance, age and fitness of the homesteading family,  masonry experience,  and INSULATION of the home, a logical decision can be ascertained.  Every situation is complex, sure, so building an expensive, technical rmh for an uninsulated edifice might not be wise.  And vice versa, building a simple small j tube with minimal mass......for example, Uncle Mud project in Alabama recently.....might be better for homesteads adequately insulated.  
Again, thanks to Ned for bringing this to the forefront