Win a copy of Compost Teas for the Organic Grower this week in the Composting forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Dan Boone
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
  • Mike Barkley

I Want To Hunt But Have No Land/Mentor/Weapon/Knowledge/Money

 
Posts: 26
2
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wanted to thank everyone for the warm welcome here. Honestly I tried to start a community and keep it going on my own site for so long I ignored other great communities like this one.

By far the most questions I've gotten here this week related to the subject I typed here. I am lacking something and it worries me enough that I might not try hunting. I wanted to help anyone who might be in that situation. Honestly a good portion of my book is dedicated to helping new hunters with a small portion of the hunting section dedicated to advanced techniques. But I wanted to share some of the more succinct tips here.

No Land
Your tax dollars and hunting/fishing license dollars pay for programs (I think in all states) that help purchase and maintain public hunting land. I don't recommend going to these on opening day of deer season but archery season, squirrel season, obscure bird seasons are all great times to check these out and help fill your freezer (FREE).
When I was growing up we had a hunting "lease". The reason "lease" is in quotes is that we never actually paid. But once a week for 2 months we "put up hay". If you've never put up hay IT SUCKS! But its cheaper than paying for a deer lease (FREE BUT HARD).
If you have money you can always purchase a lease (EXPENSIVE).

No Mentor
I suggested to a previous poster with land that they leverage a hunting "lease" to get mentorship ("leases" work both ways - LOL).
Use the internet. Meetup/craigslist and other places might be a good place to find a hunting partner or mentor.

No Weapon
Borrow one from a friend or family member.
Make your own (for about $100 you can build a longbow with instructions on the web).
Buy one. Yes it costs money but for about $150 you can buy a 12 gauge single shot from Walmart. You will need to have a smith mount some sights (maybe another $25) and slugs (another $10). You could have a hunting weapon for less than $200. The meat from the first deer will pay for that. Plus you can hunt just about any small game animal with the 12 gauge including turkeys.

No Knowledge
Books aren't free but most wildlife departments put out publications (similar to the extension office gardening ones) that can teach the basics on hunting AND fishing.

No Money
Just like in other Permaculture areas redistribute your surplus. If you have a surplus of time/energy/material give it to someone else in the form of a trade for what you need that you don't have in surplus.

 
Posts: 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good advice.

I just wanted to add: Make sure you practice with that bow... and even with the shotgun. But especially a bow -- lot's and lot's of practice. And then get out there. 99% of hunting isn't about bagging an animal. Kinda like fishing. Often you will see someone come back from fishing with a truly serene look on their face and often a big smile. And no fish. That is, my friend, a successful fishing trip. Hunting is a bit more exhausting, but it is very similar. It's an process of active observation.

-todd
 
Jason Akers
Posts: 26
2
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Couldn't agree more.

The shooting is the most important part to be perfect at but its the quickest action taken while hunting.

A bad day hunting/fishing is better than a good day at work. There's a reason they put it on cheesy vanity plates. LOL
 
Posts: 17
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One word, two syllables: "mourning doves".
 
Posts: 330
Location: S. Ontario Canada
14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My plan has been to create a rich environment to feed the wildlife and harvest them.

Speaking of bow hunting - a good recurve crossbow (Excalibur) has the low maintenance of a recurve bow and makes bow hunting much like gun hunting without the many hours of practice.
 
Mike Rossi
Posts: 17
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Roy, hunting is a means of food that doesnt require changing the land unless it is to restore habitat which in turn returns wildlife abundance. Nature provides everything - what ever legal game is in your area is adapted to the region and no excess consumption of soil, water, etc, is needed. This is something the vegan crowd cant seem to grasp. Mourning doves, which south ontario only recently allowed hunting for, are particularly well suited for permaculture, as it creates ideal habitat and conditions for them, check this out, scroll down: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/future-land-use-changes-will-increase-dove-populations.html
 
master steward
Posts: 9089
Location: Pacific Northwest
3407
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Roy Hinkley wrote:My plan has been to create a rich environment to feed the wildlife and harvest them.

Speaking of bow hunting - a good recurve crossbow (Excalibur) has the low maintenance of a recurve bow and makes bow hunting much like gun hunting without the many hours of practice.



Although, there are some places (like here in Washington) that it's illegal to use a crossbow during "Archery Season," and it can only be used during "Modern Firearm Season" (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01712/wdfw01712.pdf). Make sure to check your local laws!
 
Roy Hinkley
Posts: 330
Location: S. Ontario Canada
14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sorry to hear that, a crossbow is about half the effective range of a shotgun, maybe 50 yards max. It's archery here, 3 months season versus the single week for firearms. Another week later for muzzle loaders.

I'm planting apple trees from seed, alfalfa and clover anywhere I disturb the soil. Commercial "deer plot" seed in a small dedicated plot along with pumpkin. Oak next year and probably chestnut as well if the support species do well.
 
Posts: 478
Location: Northern Maine, USA (zone 3b-4a)
24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
jason. I've been hunting/ fishing/ growing/ gathering my whole life (45yrs). I've harvested dozens of deer, 3 moose and a multitude of grouse, rabbit and squirrel. a 20 ga. is just as good for deer but will not tear up small game as much as a 12a. also a lot less recoil. i think new england firearms sells a smoothbore shotgun in 20ga. with rifle sights for around $150. a buddy of mine has one and loves it! if you were near me, i would be happy to show you how to hunt as well as the safety aspects of it. id rather you learn the right way than the wrong way.
 
Posts: 64
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Air guns are probably the best thing out there for harvesting truly small game, like rabbits and squirrels, no noise, very little damage to meat, cheap to practice with. Airguns can be highly accurate, while few are those who can truly call a shot on small game with a bow. This means the arigun can be a more humane choice for small game. In the right hands, archery can be the most humane choice for big game.

Unless you really want to get deeply into it, I would stick with the Pneumatic piston guns like the Benjamin Trails. These are like the spring piston guns of old (spring pushes a plunger like in a syringe forward and the air fires the pellet out, except these guns use a sealed shock type device instead of a spring, this means not loss of power due to spring set. One downside is that you need a serious gun, and they cost a fair bit, but then the ammo costs are very low. Environmentally you are scattering a lot less lead around the environment. Every time you shoot a heavy 12 ga load, say 1.5 ounces, you are dispensing the equivalent of 125 shots from an airgun.

Precharged air guns are the best bet, and the Benjamin Discovery is a great choice, it is about twice the cost of a piston gun, and you have less independence in that you need to refil them. The "Disco" has a huge following and lots of online coverage. The Benjamin Marauders are even better, and the price goes up again. To get into the mainstream of precharged guns can run into the thousands, and for casual use you don't need to go there, but it is something people love to play at.
 
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We have too many deer and not enough predators.

SO-MANY-DEER-.jpg
[Thumbnail for SO-MANY-DEER-.jpg]
axis2.jpg
[Thumbnail for axis2.jpg]
 
steve bossie
Posts: 478
Location: Northern Maine, USA (zone 3b-4a)
24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
if you weren't so far id go down and""remove"" some for you!
 
pollinator
Posts: 4328
Location: Anjou ,France
240
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Nice looking deer ! What type are they?

David
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Come on down, steve!

David, the deer in the top photo are the native Whitetail, Odocoileus virginianus; the stag in the lower photo is a non-native Axis or Chital, Axis axis.
 
steve bossie
Posts: 478
Location: Northern Maine, USA (zone 3b-4a)
24
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
when is your deer season open for firearms? do you need tags to hunt the exotics? any boar to be had? i may take you up on this tyler. was stationed at white sands, n.m back in the 90's. would love to see the area again! nothing like the smell of the desert after a shower! my fiance has her aunt/uncle and cousins that live not far from waco. i could stay with them. maybe next fall/ winter? ill give you half what i get.
 
Posts: 35
Location: Southwest Oklahoma Zone 7a
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tyler Ludens wrote:Come on down, steve!

David, the deer in the top photo are the native Whitetail, Odocoileus virginianus; the stag in the lower photo is a non-native Axis or Chital, Axis axis.



Tyler, have the Axis gotten off the game ranches down there? If so, can you hunt them? During regular season? Tags? It's a beautiful animal.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes, the Axis are now "at large" and doing extremely well (no tigers!). They form large herds of 12 -20 individuals, sometimes more, and are a spectacular sight running through a field and flowing over the fences. It's open season on them. Our neighbors up the road hunt them through the window of a spare bedroom, and try to get 15 a year. However, the Axis are much more wily than the Whitetail, so more difficult to hunt. They eat mostly grass and forbs but also some browse. The huge stags damage all young trees by rubbing their antlers on them. I'm not sure how this will affect the forests long term. There was some concern about the Axis outcompeting the native Whitetail, but we have so many of both I don't see it happening.
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

steve bossie wrote:when is your deer season open for firearms? do you need tags to hunt the exotics? any boar to be had? i may take you up on this tyler. was stationed at white sands, n.m back in the 90's. would love to see the area again! nothing like the smell of the desert after a shower! my fiance has her aunt/uncle and cousins that live not far from waco. i could stay with them. maybe next fall/ winter? ill give you half what i get.



General season opens Nov 7. Unfortunately, out of state hunting license is expensive, but if you were staying for awhile it might pay off if you got multiple deer. Hogs aren't yet a problem in my neighborhood though they are sometimes seen. I've never seen a live one, only roadkill several miles from here.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/business/licenses/public/recreational/index.phtml

http://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/cs_bk_l2000_820.pdf
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's another one of these guys, view out the back window:

axisstag.jpg
[Thumbnail for axisstag.jpg]
 
steve bossie
Posts: 478
Location: Northern Maine, USA (zone 3b-4a)
24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
nice stag! I'm envious! thanks for the invite! i may take you up on it someday. always wanted to hunt texas. my fiances cousin sent me a pic of a 300b. boar he shot not that far from you. when i was station in white sands, nm we had african oryx that were released on base in the 60's. they have a big herd on base now. i never got pulled for a permit tho.
 
Posts: 23
Location: Big Sky, MT
fish hunting
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tyler Ludens wrote:Here's another one of these guys, view out the back window:



Goodness! That's a good looking stag! wouldn't mind taking care of your "problem"! So amazing they come so close
 
Tyler Ludens
master pollinator
Posts: 11070
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
616
cat forest garden fish trees chicken fiber arts wood heat greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
They are delicious!

 
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
[quote=Tam Deal]Air guns are probably the best thing out there for harvesting truly small game, like rabbits and squirrels, no noise, very little damage to meat, cheap to practice with.  Airguns can be highly accurate, while few are those who can truly call a shot on small game with a bow.  This means the arigun can be a more humane choice for small game.  [/quote]
New here, might take a little to figure this out.
I've hunted small game and big game by all sorts of means. Back when I had beagles I preferred a shotgun with a short smooth bore slug barrel, widest pattern or don't plan on eating the rabbits.
I a couple yrs ago started using a decent break action pellet rifle, completely up'd the ante on the 'focus' factor. Love them, hunting small game with a air rifle is the best for small game.  
 
Posts: 25
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Get a beagle!
 
Posts: 6
Location: Oxford, England
trees books food preservation
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Learn how to make a bow and arrow from found and forages materials on YouTube then practise on non animal targets first. Simples
 
I'm not dead! I feel happy! I'd like to go for a walk! I'll even read a tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!