Matt Ferrall wrote:The greenhouse era will someday be eclipsed!
Matt Smith wrote:Bless the hearts of all you patient souls who are legitimately trying to forge some kind of sensible debate out of this. While I wonder if your efforts are worth it, I do applaud your zen-like approach.
Matt Ferrall wrote:The function served by industrial products will hopefully be met in the future by using cultural technique.For example, if fresh food in the winter is the goal,than fermented foods might provide a similar result without as many products or with products that could be manufactured localy.A cultural technique has replaced industrial dependency in this case.
Matt Ferrall wrote:Yes,I grew up homesteading the industrial americana way and have been experimenting with radical homesteading on my land here for 15 years.
Matt Ferrall wrote:I knew we would end up here!YES,I use industrial tech like this wimpy cell phone I charge off my truck.Do I view this as optimum?NO!.But here I am in history and my ability to communicate here is neccessitated by our current social organisation patterns which,being out in the country on a 'homestead',dont really facilitate community.A product has replacied a cultural technique/social function.The mediation of the cell phone mitigates for the alienation inherent in the current reality.The cell phone is an undesirable but seemingly neccesary crutch.
Matt Ferrall wrote:Right,I suppose starting this thread amounts to telling folks what to do and folks posting a totally opposing view point on this one thread could be seen as me wasting my time.Really Im not comparing to something worse but to something better.I am not claiming all manipulation of nature or use of technology is wrong.I want to explore whats wrong with greenhouses to figure out a solution to them.Centralized production is an easy target because the inputs are easily quantified.I agree there is appropriate use but that is a subjective ambiguous concept that is not quantifiable.That doesnt make it more sustainable but does hide its ecological costs.
Comparing to something that appears worse is a rationalization model used by the green product industry.It freezes the narrative but I would like to evolve the narrative and improve it.This is accomplished by challenging the status qoe not defending it.The greenhouse era will someday be eclipsed!
Matt Ferrall wrote:Well I must admit to eating mainly apples as my fresh fruit for 4 or 5 months but I feel nurished.I dry alot of fruit.Really Ive found it far easier and sustainable to adjust my expectations.I wont say 'downward'but adjust them closer to that unmediated relationship Im seeking.In many ways my relationship has just expanded in a diferent direction, like focusing more on plants that do good here without assistance,both common and exotic.In fact, the time I save by not fiddling with gizmos has allowed me to explore and introduce many new plants.
Judith Browning wrote:We eat a lot of fresh homegrown produce over the winter...root crops, winter hardy greens fresh out of the garden, a lot of sprouts and herbs. I've never expected to have a citrus fruit out my door...I would have hitched farther south before settling here for that. It's entirely possible to have fresh produce all winter without a greenhouse...I just think it's a choice not a dogma either way.
Matt Ferrall wrote:Well for me,personally,I cant grow tomatoes or peppers without a greenhouse here. Wanting to live a local and non dependent lifestyle means I dont eat those foods EVER! No biggy though,that just frees up time to research other foods that do grow good here.At one point I had a collection of over 200 species of edible non woody perennials.That research would have never happened if I had spent that time perfecting my dependence on a greenhouse.
Matt Ferrall wrote:Well for me,personally,I cant grow tomatoes or peppers without a greenhouse here. Wanting to live a local and non dependent lifestyle means I dont eat those foods EVER!
Matt Ferrall wrote:True,a shovel is made of made of metal.I do use shovels and do compromise some in the ideal but given that most of my land is in tree crops and I am moving toward a lifestyle dependent on forest gardens,a shovel is not needed.Once my trees kick up production,my reliance on the shovel/annuals is reduced.So to,a greenhouse could be used to start perennials that would eleminate the ultimate need for said greenhouse which I would be hard pressed to critique as appropriate use.