Kakishibu (persimmon tannin liquid)

Thanks for the info, Patricia. Your blog post is very informative, I am looking forward to your update on last year's persimmon ferment.

I do a bit of searching and reading and here's what I learn:
Direct dyeing with immature persimmon (Gam) juice is the common practice in Korea, especially in Jeju Island. Fermented persimmon is traditionally used in Japan.
Working with fresh juice is simple but it is seasonal. The color takes longer to develop and also there is difference in finishing, the kakishibu is more like a lacquer and has wider applications
Kakishibu can be done at home following the practice of fermenting cider vinegar.
Immature astrigent persimmon can contain up to 4% tannin while in ripe sweet persimmon the level can be as low as 0.1%. So both variety and level of ripeness are important for high tannin level.  
The white frost on the skin of fruits are yeasts that come naturally,much like the yeast on grape skins for wine making.  Make sure to gently rinse off dirt (reduce contamination) but don't rub off this white layer.
Pressed juice is prefered, but minced fruit can be used too. In that case, add water to 10% to 20% fresh weight and leave in jar in a dark spot. Temperature is in 60 to 80F for yeast growth. Stir a couple times a day to let CO2 release. Continue till there is no more bubbling, which can take a few weeks. Strain and bottled for aging.

There isn't many information on the mechanism part of fermentation, Dr Heo Buk-Gu wrote an extensive book on persimmon dye but it can't be found here in U.S. There is a ppt by him about natural dyes ( indigo, gammul, and mineral) in Korea if anyone is interested.

Hello May,
Thank you for your comments.  
My use of green persimmons comes from what I think I understand from Korean dyers of the Jeju islands.
I posted a brief update to https://quilterscomfort.blogspot.com.  I will assemble a persimmon web resource list from my searches.   I have mostly been working with the green persimmon.  I cover them with “set out water” to process.  I have purchased some kakishibu ferment to compare with the fresh when used on paper.  There is a lacquer like finish.  Fresh green persimmon can give a hard, lacquer like finish too.  I have saturated multiple times two canvas bags, leaving them to soak overnight and now dry, each has a hardened surface.  I do find it interesting that the persimmon really develops one side on fabrics.  I also have bamboo socks and some fabrics with hard coatings.  I need to check the persimmon I put to ferment last year.  When I last checked in mid winter, all of the jars had “a mother”, like in vinegar.  I put some of the liquid to fabric and color came easily when sun dried.   I need to strain and rebottle as soon as possible.  

I am sent down the rabbit hole of dyeing with plant materials, especially with tannin as the bio-mordant. Dyeing with persimmon leaf extract has been a great success, as seen in this sample of cotton muslin fabric. I love the color and it goes very well with other natural dyes in the yellow and orange colorway.

I set up a bottle of kakishibu too, from 600g of green persimmon fruits. I tried dyeing with fresh juice too and it's quite interesting to see the juice changed a cotton to have the crispness of linen. The color is developing slower than the leaf extract sample. I am wondering the aging process has more to do with the thickening of the gel-like texture.  In China, persimmon ferment, or persimmon lacquer was traditionally used with tung oil to waterproof umbrella made of mulberry paper.

I understand about the rabbit hole.  One question seems to lead to another.  Kakishibu was and may still be used in coating stencils.  The fermented persimmon also when used as a paint,  was a deterrent to wood damaging insects.  You got good color results.  I dyed a number of pairs of socks to the point where they are  lacqured on the outside.  Hard to the touch.  Glad the inside is silky soft.  Now to test to see if the socks are slightly water repellant.  I have two canvas bags green persimmon dyed and next will put on a coating of beeswax.

I am reporting some partial success after 6 weeks.

After the initial test of just dozen persimmons,  I did a batch of 600g green persimmons on Sept 1,and another batch of 420g of persimmons turning orange on Oct 02. Both have been diced and pureed in a blender with 1: 1.25 w/v water added. Fermentation is done at room temperature in a glass jar with a coffer filter paper covering the opening.  I observe a two-step fermentation by how it's bubbling with the first on day 1-3 and the second one on day 6-9. I strain the mixture on day 10 to 12 and keep the solution air tight. Sediments start to accumulate at the bottom,  the 9/1 batch is darker in color than the oct/2 batch. The pH of the liquid decrease from 5-6 in the initial puree to 4 after one month and with agitation, the sepdiments start to dissolve.

I further concentrate the 9/1 batch of kakishibu and test it on both cotton fabric and white pine. It gives the fabric some body and is responsive to light when wet. It gives the pine wood a yellow and smooth finish after multiple coatings.

It's an interesting project to work on and I am letting both bottles age to see what else will happen.