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Location: Chihuahua Desert
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drake schutt wrote:
abe- if you ever want to grow some warm weather varieties- paddy straw and milky mushrooms grow in hot climates. you would need to supplement humidity though.

I've looked into paddy straw, but what are milky mushrooms?

Pink oysters and garden giants do well for me, here. I have to supplement humidity, regardless.

there are a lot of turkey tail wild, here, they grow through the summer monsoon.
 
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Location: Zone 5, Maine Coast
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Florian Kogseder wrote:This fall I've harvested mycelium from 5 species of mushrooms, transferred it onto sterile substrates and stored it in the fridge after they completely colonized the substrate. By now I've stored all crops from my garden and filled my freezer with enough fish and meat for the next months, so it's time to get them out again and start producing spawn to inoculate some logs in spring.

In this thread I'm going to show you step by step how I work.

I already posted a description of how I get spawn from mushrooms in another thread
http://www.permies.com/t/28658/fungi/Creating-blue-oyster-spawn-blue

Some of the steps are the same, so I'll only add some pictures

STEP 1: SUBSTRATE (40% sawdust, 40% rye/wheat, 20% coffee grounds, in this case I'll mix it with compost, because I don't have enough coffee)

First you need to make a substrate. I cook the wheat until lots of the grains burst (around 30min), sieve them, and use the cooking water to soak the sawdust. leave both grain and sawdust to drip off for 10-20 minutes and then mix it with the DRY! coffee grounds.
like I said before you can use almost anything as substrate, but it's really important that your mushrooms have enough water, but all of the water should be taken up by the substrate.


Thank you florian! You are a role model for the hobby/ home cultivator! I have been interested in collecting, eating, and growing fungi for many years, but I have had only mediocre success in fruiting anything but in controlled environments.
This year however I finally spent the time and a little extra money to create a still air box and a clean closet to do agar transfers and clone wild or grocery store fruits and make my own spawn. The result has been the difference between dabbling and feeling real confidence. My contam rate dropped from above 50% to below 20%, and now I can isolate and propagate almost anything I find. I feel the next step is to intuitively and creatively integrate mushroom cultivation techniques into a permaculture setting, just as you have!
It can be difficult bridging the gap between sterile lab mycologists and permies with living soil under their fingernails, but you are proving it can be done.
I hope to post some documentation of my techniques and hopefully successes this year, thank you for the inspiration.
 
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Location: Austria, Central Europe, USDA-Zone 6b
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Dan Tutor wrote:
Thank you florian! You are a role model for the hobby/ home cultivator! I have been interested in collecting, eating, and growing fungi for many years, but I have had only mediocre success in fruiting anything but in controlled environments.
This year however I finally spent the time and a little extra money to create a still air box and a clean closet to do agar transfers and clone wild or grocery store fruits and make my own spawn. The result has been the difference between dabbling and feeling real confidence. My contam rate dropped from above 50% to below 20%, and now I can isolate and propagate almost anything I find. I feel the next step is to intuitively and creatively integrate mushroom cultivation techniques into a permaculture setting, just as you have!
It can be difficult bridging the gap between sterile lab mycologists and permies with living soil under their fingernails, but you are proving it can be done.
I hope to post some documentation of my techniques and hopefully successes this year, thank you for the inspiration.


Thanks, I really hope you've had success this year as well.

I haven't posted here in quite some time, but I just had way too much work this summer.

There is more success to be seen already than I was hoping for this year. At least the Oysters (both winter and summer strain) are starting to fruit at the moment on almost all the inoculated logs. Today I've also seen the first velvet feet, but only 5 small fruiting bodies until now.
I've learned quite a lot from this larger scaled test and I'll post more about what improvements I'm planning in the cultures I'm going to do next year, but for now just some pictures to show you how well it seems to be working

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most important improvement i did was killing most snails with the help of my new friends
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which lead to amazing fruitings on my older cultures
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of course only the hericium in this picture is cultivated
 
Florian Kreisky
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Location: Austria, Central Europe, USDA-Zone 6b
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I lost most of the first fruiting bodies on this years cultures to a species of snail we have around here which is only active at night when the ducks are in the shelter, but by turning over their hideouts daily I've managed to get rid of most within a week. Really funny when you're walking through the cultures followed by five ducks hoping for some protein rich food
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and this week also the new cultures are starting to fruit
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Florian Kreisky
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I also cloned 3 interesting species for cultivation I found this year, two species of Hericium and Kuehneromyces mutabilis (no picture).
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two of the first cultivated Flammulinas
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Hericium flagellum found wild
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Hericium coralloides next to Hericium flagellum
 
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Great pictures Florian.
You are getting us fired up for making more fungi processes. Dan too.
John S
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Florian Kreisky
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Most of the summer oysters have been harvested, but the result wasn't that great. I got about 2.5kg, but most of them started to fruit when the slugs were still active and have been eaten before reaching the size of a fingernail.

The winter variety started one week later and have been left alone mostly. Also they seem more aggressive, because they are producing much more fruiting bodies on each log then the summer strain.

The Flammulinas are looking better every day and start to fruit in bigger clusters




Today I collected a lot of moss and placed it on top of the logs that aren't fruiting at the moment, because it seems that this is really good to get a bigger amount of mushrooms. They really seem to love spots where there is some soil, moss or even only a small leaf on top of the log for fruiting.

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Pholiota nameko cultures, not fruiting until now
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I really wasn't expectign them to fruit like this in the first year
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John Saltveit
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Florian,
in the second picture are you fruiting oysters on the ground? I didn't see mushrooms in the third picture. Sometimes to stop slugs I will hang the log on a rope off of my deck. I will also grow them in buckets, drilling holes in the side and top.
John S
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Bucket of white elm oysters
 
Florian Kreisky
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The second picture is showing the top of a beech log with a diameter of about 75cm (~400kg). It's one of the logs I used for the edging of the compost heap I've posted some months ago. There is some soil on top and some moss growing, and from these spots the oysters are fruiting. Letting it fruit above ground isn't really an option with logs up to 500kg

On the third picture you can see lots of small Flammulina velutipes fruits, also on a beech log (~250kg) with some soil on top
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John Saltveit
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Thanks for showing that Florian. My eyes are getting worse over the years. The placement and species of mushroom and substrate are important too.
John S
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Florian Kreisky
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John Saltveit wrote:Thanks for showing that Florian. My eyes are getting worse over the years.


Tell me about it. Some years ago I was able to spot and identify a King bolete between the leaves from 30 meters, now I don't notice it most of the time from half the distance. Maybe one of the reasons why I started to grow more mushrooms. They are easier to find when you know exactly where you have to look


The placement and species of mushroom and substrate are important too.


I've seen quite some difference between the logs in the open and the ones in full shade, but I was really surprised about the effect of something coating the top and bigger ground contact. As long as I've managed to keep the humidity in the logs these species fruiting in late fall and winter seem to like places out in the open too. I even have a small log (inoculated 2.5 years ago) of only about 15 cm that is getting the full midday sun for several hours every day and still it's fruiting amazing!

It seems to me that there can be quite a difference in substrate preferences even within one species. I've tried several genetics of velvet foot mushrooms on beech now, but one of the three I cloned this winter is the first one that gives promising first results grown in this combination. Surprisingly it's not the one I found on beech, but another one from a big willow stump. But the season for them just started so maybe the others just need more time
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The small oyster log integrated in a huegel bed with good ground contact and full midda sun
 
John Saltveit
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Stamets says to rip the moss and lichens off of logs because they are harbors for other spores. I guess they also harbor moisture, which is needed. I would imagine that your climate is snowy in winter and fairly dry. Here in PNW USA we are moist and cool for late fall, winter and spring, so the moisture helps less and is still a great harbor for invading spores. I wonder where to draw the line.
John S
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Florian Kreisky
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You're right, we have very little precipitation during fall and winter compared to the rest of the year. Also the length of the logs seems to be a factor. The long pieces I've used are less moist on top then the shorter ones and also fruit less if not covered with anything.

As for unwanted mushrooms I don't think it's that easy for one growing from a spore to take over a already fully colonized log, but I guess it will take some more years for me to be sure about this assumption. Until now it seems that perfectly healthy wood inoculated 2 months after cutting was perfectly colonized almost without any contaminations from wild mushrooms. Logs that have even had the smallest brown spots in the wood have the fungi I inoculated them with growing besides other species of wild mushrooms. Also there was about a month time in between inoculating the first and the last logs and I have much more contaminations on the last ones! How much this impacts the yields, and if the different species will continue to grow next to each other, or if some take over can be answered in 3-5 years
It's still just a large scale test run for me so I can see for myself what methods work best for me and in my situation.
 
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Florian Kogseder wrote:Until now it seems that perfectly healthy wood inoculated 2 months after cutting was perfectly colonized almost without any contaminations from wild mushrooms.

2 months after cutting seems like a long time! Did you cut in late winter & inoculate in spring?
 
Florian Kreisky
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Cj Verde wrote:2 months after cutting seems like a long time! Did you cut in late winter & inoculate in spring?


Cut in mid January, inoculated the first ones around the 10th of march. I wasn't pleased with the time in between as well, especially in a warm winter like we had around here, but there were quite some problems with the transport and I had already purchased it, so I had to work with what I had. I have to organize all of this better this spring, because I want all to be inoculated within 6 weeks of cutting
 
John Saltveit
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I inoculated some 2 months after cutting but I live in a much milder, wetter climate during fall, winter, and spring. Some of mine were not fully inoculated yet but were accidentally inoculated by weed fungi. I look at cultivation of mushrooms as a process. This is part of the process that I am observing as I try to get better and better at this. Another part of the process is sharing the experiments with you people.
John S
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John Saltveit
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Some of my logs are fruiting even as we speak. Some were taken over by weed fungi. but some of the weed fungi, like turkey tails, are medicinal, so I used them anyway.
John S
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Florian Kreisky
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Mine are also still producing. I've already harvested several kilos of oysters and the winter strain is still producing more and more small mushrooms. But the development is already taking it's time with temperatures just above freezing. But the quality i get with this slow growth is amazing!

Also the Flammulinas are looking better every day and even some Pholita nameko logs are starting to fruit!

I've been in bed with flu for the last days so I can't wait to see their development. Later I'll probably go out and make some pictures.

 
Florian Kreisky
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Flammulina velutipes
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Florian Kreisky
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Pleurotus ostreatus
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Florian Kreisky
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Pholiota nameko
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Florian Kreisky
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just some pctures from today. The Flammulina strain growng best until now and 350g wild ones collected today on the spot i cloned them from. I guess i should search for some willows this year because the velvet feet still produce much bigger fruits there.
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Florian Kreisky
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Quite some ushrooms still haven't been harvested, but all seem to have stopped producing young ones.

The winter oyster has been by far the best strain this year, with a total harvest of about 30kg (20+kg have already been harvested) from abut 6500kg of logs

The summer oyster has given only about 2,5kg on the same amount of wood, but many young ones have been eaten by slugs

Flaulina velutipes will give about 1kg from 2500kg wood

The nameko mushrooms will give about the same amount from twice the wood,

and the Hericium erinaceus didn't fruit until now


Not that much, but I'm still satisfied, considerng the size of the logs i used and the not at all optimal conditions during the colonisation.


And most importantly I've learned a lot about what i have to do better this time



General improvemets:

- Most importantly I have to spend more time on getting perfect, high quality logs with perfect health, intact bark
- I have to reduce te time between cutting the tree and inoculation to a maximum of 4 weeks
- I will increase the amount of inoculation points about 30%
- I will try t get a bit smaller logs for better handling
- I will store them for 4-6 months without direct grund contact under wet hay and a thick fleece for better colonisation
- I will mix the sterile spawn with 2 parts pasturised sawdust to lower the work and expenses for substrate production about 65%

-P. Ostreatus
I won't make new cultures with the summer strain this year because the Blue winter oyster gives me a product of much higher quality. Also their tendency to fruit around christmas time is great for marketing. Only few fresh products with such a high quality can be purchased around here at this time of year and there are lots of markets all the time

-F. velutipes
These are one of my big hopes for the future because they are such an amazing product and I think It's possible to establish a market for them around here, because there is quite some high class gastronomy within my reach. And like with oysters they grow at a time where fresh food is rare. I'll only inoculate them on willow this year because they just produce higher quaity fruits there and I found a source although willow is quite rare around here

-Hericium sp.
This year I'll only inoculate H. coralloides on beech/oak and H. flagellum on Abies alba so i can compare them to H. erinaceus

-L. edodes
I'll make the first larger patch this year because fresh ones yield high prices around here. Hopefully I can get some oak, if not I'll work with beech or Sycamore maple

-P. nameko
Won't change much there, beech and maple seem to work find. Maybe I'll try some oak as well to compare yields

-K. mutabilis
The jar i stored was infected with yeast and I only noticed it after opening. They have to wait another year


Best regards
 
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I was under the impression that for shiitake mushrooms, you actually want to use pieces that have a lot of sapwood. The smaller 6-10" wood has much more sapwood than heartwood, and are preferable to larger wood which has a higher ratio of heartwood. The sugars that the mushrooms feed on are located in the sapwood.
 
John Saltveit
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That is true, not just for shiitake, but for every mushroom that I have heard of. More energy to grow the mycelium on.
John S
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Florian Kreisky
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Do you have any sources for this information? Until now i wasn't really able to find a lot about the importance of different energy sources in the metabolism of mushrooms, but I would be really interested in disertations about this subject.

As far as I know the main energy source for shiitake is lignin, because it's a white rot fungus. Oyster on the other hand mostly consume cellulose (and use lignin mostly as a nitrogen source), but the importance of smaller sugar molecules for their growth is something I wasn't able to understand until now.

Best regards
 
John Saltveit
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I've read it in probably 10 different publications. You could try paul stamets' books.
John S
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Hello, I wanted to share another nifty tool with you guys. Does anyone use a cant hook, peavey or log jack? They are all variations on a lever arm used to roll logs or lift them. I use a peavey with log stand from logrite and I lift logs over 1000 kilos off the ground by myself. I put small logs under the ends to raise them off the ground for sawing them into lumber with my chainsaw. They are also really handy for rolling logs around the yard. If you're looking to inoculate larger logs, or to raise logs off the ground as part of your mushroom cultivation you should try one. You can find fine antique ones sometimes for very cheap and I was fortunate enough to inherit two of them but I also purchased a 60 inch extreme duty peavey from logrite (the stihl chainsaw version is the same one, they buy them from logrite although the ones stihl sells are the regular duty version). You can see my review under the 60 inch extreme duty peavey on logrites website (only one) and this guys demo video showing how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt6f0JnTXxk
 
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I grew oysters last year. First inside, in a spare bathroom. Then moved them outside. Recently dug most of them in a garden bed, hope they will produce some more fruiting bodies. Great project for kids (and adults who want almost instant gratification)
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Oysters fruiting first in spare bathroom
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Then outside
 
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Very useful thread Florian...

I'm working on some mushroom experiments currently and am trying to figure out the most efficient pasteurization process. I'm wondering if you have had any experience using lime, wood-ash or fermentation processes for the substrate preparation. If so, how do they compare to heat pasteurization in your opinion?
 
That feels good. Thanks. Here's a tiny ad:
The Earth Sheltered Solar Greenhouse Book by Mike Oehler - digital download
https://permies.com/wiki/23444/digital-market/digital-market/Earth-Sheltered-Solar-Greenhouse-Book
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