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Thomas Partridge
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Wyatt Barnes wrote:I wonder if a visible line, string, flagging tape or single strand of wire strung up high would deter deer from jumping?


From what I have read that should work and be pretty cost effective. You can get hi-vis mason line on amazon - like 1000 feet for $10. String that around the posts about a foot above the panels and repeat every foot or so above that first one until it is about 8 feet. I think the hi-vis stuff can be only partially seen by the deer (why hunters use it) and it confuses them because they don't know exactly how wide the strands are.
 
Jerry Sledge
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The double fence will work also. I have seen it in use at a small organic farm nearby.

Some hunters will plant something for the deer to attract them to a certain area. Maybe if the deer had their own "garden" they might not be so interested in yours.
 
chad Christopher
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I second the double fence idea, especially when used as a chicken run. The pest controll, use of space, and deer protection is outstanding. I live in one of the highest deer populated areas in the nation. If you consider our registered hunters a militia, it would be the 4th largest army in the world. Double fences work. The chicks love cleaning up the hard to clean fence line, and weeds and scraps from the garden are an arms throw away to feed them. If properly graded, the run can wash their nutrients directly into the garden. Plant sunflowers, amaranth, corn, etc and climbing squashes on the outsides of those runs, and you have a nice little nutrient flow, chicken feed, chicken poo, cycle that works beautifully. Oddly enough, Deer don't really like pumpkin like vines and sunflower...near me atleast. They are too jabby-hairy-spiney. And the amaranth, well they just plainly have shown no interest in. I say quinoa and amaranth, because they have small seed, that other birds can't easily swoop and steal while being guarded by chix, and both high in protein.

Not sure if you eat meat, but they also don't really like smelling one of their own being slow smoked.
High - vis deer line is a scam. Deer are blue green colorblind, like some humans. Stringing pinecones on a fishing line works fine. High vis, is so people don't walk into them. The idea of a high strung wire, is deer have poor depth perception and will sometimes not take the risk of jumping, because they cannot gauge the hight due to the fine focus required to look at the wire, making the foreground bury and even harder to judge. Think aperture on a camera. Or try to look at the lines on your hand, and the room beyond your hand at the same time.

 
evan l pierce
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Day 12

The fence is coming along nicely, and I even started laying out some brush and rotten wood in the shape of some keyhole beds. At first I was thinking I would build the beds and then seed them, but I have tons of old seeds, so I figured I'd just throw a bunch of them out willy-nilly and then keep building the beds with the already-seeded soil. If some seeds come up, great, and if not, well then I have plenty more and I can plant them when I finish building the beds.

The seeds I broadcast today were from a defunct farm in northern Vermont, and ranged in age from 3 to 23 years old. In order to fit them all into my luggage when I flew out here, I opened them all and mixed them together in big ziploc bags. This saved a lot of space compared to keeping all the packets, and while I mostly don't know which seeds are which, I did write down everything in a big list. There's over 70 different species in the mix, and of those, some have up to 12 different varieties.

Nature is a better gardener than me, so I'm going to try to let her make as many of the decisions as possible.
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seeding chaos
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feebly attempting order
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mama nature
 
Natalie Manor
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Evan, I laughed out loud when I saw your jar of seeds all nicely mixed together. The outcome of their germination is worth an eBook at least. You are getting lots done. Such fun to "watch" you grow.
 
evan l pierce
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Day 13

Look at that deer! She wants my plants to grow so she can eat them!
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oh dear
 
Lee Daniels
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Sepp's bone sauce...... I read it is suppose to deter everything.....
 
Guerric Kendall
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You could try using some fishing line to keep the deer out. Here's a thread about the technique. http://www.permies.com/t/7921//Fishing-line-deer
 
Erik Pehoviack
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Good luck saving your crops! I do not know the seasons there, but you may need to eat her before she eats your garden!
 
Wyatt Barnes
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I vote for a preemptive strike.
 
evan l pierce
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Day 14

Started doing a little something to try to deer-proof the fence around my garden. It's not as fast as some of the ideas mentioned in this thread, and it's considerably more work, but I think it'll be more reliable and maybe even a bit prettier to boot.

Also helped Tim move his cows and made good progress on a fence job for basecamp too, but I didn't get any good pictures. I'll be sure to do so tomorrow. In the meantime, check out this picture of a nice flower.
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the deer should be quite intimidated
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nice
 
Miles Flansburg
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Good idea on the fence.

Flower looks like a Shooting Star, Dodecatheon meadia.
 
Erik Pehoviack
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Your fencing is coming along nicely, thank you for demonstrating an eye towards longevity. Also, I appreciate the extra large photos. So many posts have small, un-clickable images that I can't see well enough to make comments. Nice work!
 
Baxter Tidwell
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I'm intimidated!
 
Julia Winter
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Oh yeah, everybody should click to embiggen the fencing image. I didn't catch the scary part until I enlarged the photo!

Looking good! If I were you I would collect the animal manures that are around and use them in your garden beds. (OK, don't plant into fresh manure, but there should be caches of old stuff where the animals were.) Potatoes could maybe be planted now, definitely peas, also cole crops like cabbage and kale.
 
Natalie Manor
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I am with Baxter. You are intimidating...and terrifically inspiring.
 
evan l pierce
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Day 15

Got a lot of work done cutting and moving logs for the basecamp paddock fence today. Ranger Doug was quite the trooper hauling all that wood.

Some of the logs went into fence posts that were buried 2 ft deep where we could dig down that far. Some were turned into rockjacks, which are neat contraptions for fencing in rocky areas.

Here! Have some more flowers you lovely permies!
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ranger getting it done
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rock jack and fencing
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itty bitty white flowers
 
evan l pierce
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Day 16

Today saw lots more fence building. A few more days and we should be done. Paul seems to really be looking forward to having a turkey/deer-proofed garden and chicken paddock. He's put quite a reasonable bounty on this job, and collecting on it will go a long way towards meeting some of the expenses I expect to incur in establishing my homestead. Plus, it's good practice and finishing my own fence should be faster and easier as a result.

While pulling up rocks for the rockjacks, I uncovered an impressively fast centipede. This little guy did his best to get out of sight and back under cover, but I managed to snap a (somewhat blurry) picture first.

I don't blame him for hiding. The robin I saw hanging out on top of the giant hugel berm probably wasn't the only thing that would have eaten him if given the chance.
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more rockjacks and fencing
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runaway centipede
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lurking robin
 
Julia Winter
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Paul is lucky to have you helping out! I hope you get some more company soon!
 
evan l pierce
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Day 17

The galvanised steel field fence part of the project is mostly done now, aside from some tightening up. The main thing that's left to do is the woven wooden saplings part of the project. We got a lot done, and I think it's looking pretty good so far.

Did I mention how my parents are awesome? My mom sent me a care package, and among other things, it contained my grandpa's old binoculars! These will be great for long-range observations, plus the storage case has a compass on it! Neat! Thanks mom!

Thus far, I've taken several dozen pictures of the many different species of plants that I've seen here at the labs. It's hard to decide which ones to share when. These tiny blue-ish flowers were found growing in the middle of a gravelly dirt road.
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wooden fencing
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pawpaw's binoculars
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tiny blue-ish flowers
 
Curtis Budka
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Evan, In the first picture, is that the 700 feet of fence Paul keeps talking about? From what I can see its basically panels made of vertical saplings held by two horizontals screwed in periodically, all of which is screwed to rock jacks??

Thanks
 
paul wheaton
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Yes. There is about 700 feet of fence and about 50 feet is this wood style, and the rest is the galvanized field fence.
 
Wyatt Barnes
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Is the wood a test run, for looks or is that a particularly vulnerable area?
 
paul wheaton
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The field fence costs about $200 per hundred foot roll (or $110 if you are willing to spend the day driving). And then there is the cost of hardware for attaching it.

The wood fence is experimental. The cost for it is just the hardware to attach it. And I think that might be less than the hardware to attach the field fence. But it does take more labor. And we do have a LOT of these poles.

I think that if an ant wishes to build a fence and has four gappers that would like to gain this experience, it would probably be the best choice.
 
evan l pierce
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Day 18

Made more progress on the fence, and started on a gate, but didn't get any good shots of that yet. Might be able to finish the paddock fence project tomorrow. Anyway, I have a backlog of nature pictures to share, so here you go. Enjoy.
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blue and purple flowers
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caterpillar
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shade loving flower up by the creek
 
Kerry Rodgers
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evan l pierce wrote:started on a gate, but didn't get any good shots of that yet.


Please, please! I need ideas how to make gates with less labor. It takes me forever. I love your picture reports. Thanks for the inspiration!
 
Nicole Alderman
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Pretty sure the shade loving flower is trillium. We have those here, too, but our trillium's petals have already turned pink and have started to fall off. Just goes to show the difference in climates!
 
Rus Williams
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paul wheaton wrote:The field fence costs about $200 per hundred foot roll (or $110 if you are willing to spend the day driving). And then there is the cost of hardware for attaching it.

The wood fence is experimental. The cost for it is just the hardware to attach it. And I think that might be less than the hardware to attach the field fence. But it does take more labor. And we do have a LOT of these poles.

I think that if an ant wishes to build a fence and has four gappers that would like to gain this experience, it would probably be the best choice.



Paul, What hardware are you using for the fence, galvanised nails?

Good on you Evan! More power to your elbow.
 
Wyatt Barnes
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Trillium, provincial flower of Ontario, grows in the woods at the same time as leaks. I am not a fan of leaks myself but if I was a little hungry ant.......
 
paul wheaton
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Rus Williams wrote:
Paul, What hardware are you using for the fence, galvanised nails?

Good on you Evan! More power to your elbow.


I created a new thread so we could talk about the fence:

http://www.permies.com/t/46438/labs/wood-fence-chickens-turkeys-deer



 
evan l pierce
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Day 19

It rained most of the morning and so we didn't get much more done on the fence until the afternoon. Threw some more saplings into the wooden part of the fence, now it just needs a little trimming and tightening up. Also started stretching the chicken wire along the top of the 6 ft field fence.

The gate will take a little more figuring. It's in a tricky spot between the porch and the giant hugel berm. Speaking of the giant hugel berm, it was quite a challenge running the fence up the side and along the top of it, but I think it turned out alright.

Not much left to do on this project, I think we'll really be able to knock it out tomorrow. Meanwhile, check out this ferny-looking plant.
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moar fencing
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fence atop the huge hugel
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ferny
 
Diego de la Vega
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I love this thread. Please keep up I the hard work and keep sending us pictures and info. This is one of the coolest things I have read on the Internet for some time.

Diego
 
Miles Flansburg
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May I ask, why the fence on top of the hugel ? Wouldn't you want to use both sides of it?
 
kadence blevins
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Evan,
Perhaps if you posted the top projects you are working on and the top projects you are working on your ant plot that it might help some people decide to come help that are into those projects? (:
 
evan l pierce
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Day 20

Still not quite done with the basecamp paddock 1 fence. But it's close. Srsly. The first of two gates is mostly finished, and it should be functional, even if it's not too pretty.

The tightening up part of the project has entailed, among other things, adding lots of rocks along the bottom of the fence where the changes in slopes caused gaps. When I was pulling up rocks for that, I came across a whole army of ants. These fellers were smaller than the other ones I saw earlier, but they seemed just as industrious, and they were more than willing to defend their little hunk of rock.

I'm looking forward to being done with this fencing job. Not only do I have lots of work to do on my ant plot, I'd also like to take a little more time to do some more exploring of the countryside. Check out this gorgeous view from the last time I hiked up to the creek.
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looks a bit like a gate
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aaants
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countryside
 
susan vita
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I too am really enjoying your posts evan---and hope to visit before or after the summit in june.
ETA---and wondering if I can rent a horse while i'm there to explore...!
 
Kate Muller
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Evan, This is awesome.
Can you PM me an address to send a care package of seeds to you?
I have more of the seeds I had a Christmas and a bunch of sunflower and bean seeds I saved form last year I want to send you.
 
paul wheaton
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Kate Muller wrote:
Can you PM me an address to send a care package of seeds to you?
I have more of the seeds I had a Christmas and a bunch of sunflower and bean seeds I saved form last year I want to send you.


Any care packages for evan can be sent to:

evan c/o paul wheaton
2120 s reserve #351
missoula mt 59801


 
paul wheaton
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I went out and pestered Evan about what might be some tools he could use and I made a list here.
 
evan l pierce
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Day 21

The fence around paddock 1 at basecamp is pretty much done. Basically all that's left is a final walkabout and inspection tomorrow. I think it turned out alright for an experimental fence on relatively hilly and rough terrain. One of the things that really made it take longer than expected was having to redo the fence sections on either side of this gate. But once they were fixed, the gate went up pretty fast and now it should be able to swing open wide enough to accommodate a wheelbarrow.

I'm hoping tomorrow will be a more laid back kind of day. Sometimes you gotta slow down and just enjoy watching nature be.
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woodsy gate
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blooming lovely
 
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