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RMH Mass Layout  RSS feed

 
Susan Pruitt
Posts: 88
Location: North Carolina, USA Zone 7b
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Hi folks, still studying and pondering the design of my RMH - learning physics and paying close attention to Allen Lumley's CAVEATS - love you Allen Lots of good info about the combustion system and comments about it being cooler at the end of the run are of course, logical, but I'm curious if anyone has documented the actual temp decline per foot of flue pipe. I've seen some heat charts but don't know how to interpret them.

I have a 720 sq foot story-and-a-half frame bungalow, moderate climate zone 7b, three separate main rooms to be heated, living room primary (200 sq ft), then the dining-cooking area (220 sq ft), last the bedroom (100 sq ft). Each space is only 10 feet wide and they all meet at the center of the house. Because of my loner lifestyle, and attached to my modern boxspring and mattress and two beloved overstuffed lounge chairs), I don't want a massive bench taking up valuable real estate. I'm fantasizing about creating something like electric baseboard wall heating, distributing the heat around a broader space, with the added benefit of distributing the load of the mass around the outside foundation walls.

So:

CAN I - run my mass as a single line of pipe approx. 24 ft long, making two 90-degree bends exiting at a low outside wall exhaust which will then bend upward for chimney.

-OR-

CAN I - use a Tee coming off the manifold to send two arms off the main line?

-OR-

CAN I do the classic double layout in the center of the house (living room) but with one pipe above the other, resulting in a box approx. 6 feet long, 24" high and 12" wide ( like an old fashioned steam radiator).

Would be immensely grateful for suggestions, critiques to this idea.
 
Rick Howd
Posts: 128
Location: McMinnville Oregon
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After spending this weekend sitting on Ianto Evan's bench at Cobville I'd put in the bench and toss what I thought was my comfy couch and recliner. I can't comment from experience about a bed but I was more than willing to curl up and nap on that bench.

As to snaking that pipe all over the place, you need to have a decent mass to both store the heat and protect your structure at least at the beginning of your run. Inside a wood from building it's especially important to protect your flammables from the heat. I'm far from an expert and i'm only guessing, but from the 10-12 stoves I saw this weekend I think you would want about 8' of length doubled pipe minimum in a bench to pull down the heat enough to get it to 100 degrees before you exit at 30ish feet.

If you can sketch out your house and desired location I can draft up a potential adea or two.
 
allen lumley
pollinator
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
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Susan P. : You can't be nice to a grumpy old curmudgeon like me and not expect to be brutally savaged with my very next post !

{ this is not a matter of being good for you - Its good for ME! }

Accepting the responsibilities of having a rocket mass heater RMH in your Home comes with responsibilities to your House Dragon that lives in the Heart of every well
made and tended RMH. You obviously have not considered the true costs of the caliber of disaster implicit in the half formed thoughts of your flawed vision

I personally have never made the pilgrimage to Cobville, it is on my bucket list !

Rick Howd, thanks for sharing your thoughts ! I admit to a little curiosity about Ianto Evans' Sheltered location and personal micro climate ! Of the RMHs you saw how
many were horizontal discharge and were ANY of those on buildings over 12' tall?

Susan are you so trapped in your comfortable lifestyle there is no room for change ?! No growth, no glorious spreading of wings, Arcing flight ?!

A rocket mass heater RMH should be viewed as a hand crafted, fine piece of built-in furniture, a multi generational family treasure and the heart of most future stories
you and your friends share about your wonderful and bountiful heart (heart and hearth come from the same root world )

Located thus, it is like the ticking of an old grandfather clock, helpfully creating little rhythms that coach you through your day, creating an Aural symphony to bind you
and it to the days tasks made simple by its very company! Endlessly giving a bountiful, and centering supply of warm and nestling flat places to help nurture lives little
projects along, an embracing hug when your very bones need the warmth and comfort of its caress !

And you want to Manipulate it to fabricate another Radiator ! Would you could create a Frankenstiens Monster, a thing that no House Dragon could ever bring itself to
occupy ?! While usually very benign, would you turn such a Specter loose within your own community !

Much, much better, far less harm done to scrape your pennies together and gift them to the Future Fascists of America then to lend your hand to such a Black and Star-
crossed enterprise !


In short, while such a device as you have envisioned is possible and probably has been built by Someone, I know of no pattern that you could follow ! Good luck, Gods
speed, and carry a 4-leaf clover where ever you go ! I hope this is timely and useful Big AL !
 
Rick Howd
Posts: 128
Location: McMinnville Oregon
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allen lumley wrote:I personally have never made the pilgrimage to Cobville, it is on my bucket list !


It's not Disneyland, but you know what, I learned much more because it wasn't. Ianto definitely has some opinions, many I agree with, some I agree with in theory and some well... everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I can eat meat in a few days . He said a few things that GIBB SMACKED me as well and I have to rethink life a bit but I'm still going to eat meat. I think he's doing important things and I'm glad he's happy with what he's doing. He's definitely well fed if our meals were any indication.

allen lumley wrote: I admit to a little curiosity about Ianto Evans' Sheltered location and personal micro climate ! Of the RMHs you saw how
many were horizontal discharge and were ANY of those on buildings over 12' tall?


Cobville is pretty sheltered in it's little valley (120 acres I believe he said), they've taken care to position it well for our climate and while I thought the solar panels would have to be moved in winter he said the sun just reached that spot (which was why it was there, DUH). I hit 8f degrees last year and he said his low was 14f (it was unusual for both of us) the RMH had no trouble but he did mention needing to run them every day .

The only vertical discharge I noticed was the shower, 6-7 others I checked were all horizontal (with an elbow down), I didn't check them all but nothing was off-limits. Myrtle had the only RMH that was running during my trip. It hasn't gone below 60 for 5 months and the others just hadn't been needed, Linda tried to fire the Meadow House for me but there was some wear causing a little smoke that wasn't worth fixing that late at night and honestly it would have cooked us if we'd had the heat


And finely:
allen lumley wrote:A Rocket Mass Heater RMH should be viewed as a hand crafted, fine piece of built-in furniture, a multi generational family treasure and the heart of most future stories
you and your friends share about your wonderful and bountiful heart (heart and hearth come from the same root world )

Located thus, it is like the ticking of an old grandfather clock, helpfully creating little rhythms that coach you through your day, creating an Aural symphony to bind you
and it to the days tasks made simple by its very company! Endlessly giving a bountiful, and centering supply of warm and nestling flat places to help nurture lives little
projects along, an embracing hug when your very bones need the warmth and comfort of its caress !



I wouldn't have said it that way or that well, infact I would have been rude if I had allowed myself to express the same feelings. You however, added poetry to what a RMH is/should be. Forcing it into being the wrong tool for the job and ignoring some of t's best features is as I think Paul would say "FUCKING WRONG!" ok, I said my piece
 
allen lumley
pollinator
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
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Susan P. : I did not answer all your questions, that is no way to have a quality post, but what the hell we are all human here !

I wish I could see your proposed layout a little clearer in my mind ! A sketch-up or pictures would be nice ! D0-able ?

I actually know-of Three rocket mass heater RMH installations that were put in place with two horizontal runs through separate
Thermal Masses, I do not know if any are being used regularly !

The problems are, no matter how carefully one tries to make them equal, one of the pipes will dominate the flow sometimes
taking most of the heat energy down just one horizontal run !

It would be possible to install a damper In just one pipe NEVER IN BOTH, but you might pick the wrong one and
have a rebuild job almost immediately! This would be a very ambitious project for a 1st build, possibly leaving you with 'teething'
problems that would be hard to diagnose !

So I seem to have talked myself into a corner, for a 1st build I would build as conventionally as possible ! Give yourself the Best
shot at success. Note the comment on my signature line, Two things we don't need someone copying the crap seen on You-tube
or an experiment with honest hopes that ends-up spoiling a would be Rocketeers Dreams.

No Rocket builder should be unnecessarily put in a defensive position by a disappointed D.I.Y.er who says ''I tried to build a
Rocket Stove Mass Heater!'' ''They don't work !'' A rising tide floats All boats! For the Good of the Craft! Big AL
 
Rick Howd
Posts: 128
Location: McMinnville Oregon
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Definately give us a sketch or some pictures with descriptions, you might have a valid concept we just can't conceptualize.
 
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