passive solar with hybrid and traditional/natural construction

This is a spinoff thread from the "best backup heat source" thread.

Jay C. White Cloud wrote: "There are many "hybrid" and other "t/n" construction modalities that may very well be within your budget and time constraints. A simple timber frame with wall truss thermal diaphragm insulated with mineral wool batt and board then a cold roof/rain screen wall system is very viable for banks, super easy to build, breathable and also has great resale value because of the super insulation and the aesthetics of a timber frame superstructure."

I would like to hear more about this. First, could you explain what a wall truss is in the context of a timber-framed skeleton? Second, what is a thermal diaphragm? And third, what is a cold roof/rain screen wall system?

"[An] OPC steam wall or plinth system is tolerated, (geopolymers are taking off all over the country and can be found now in many locations...yours may have one now??) and then either a traditional "doma" entrance and egawa (small porch) all around the structure plinth foundation with insulated wood floor."

So if you are talking stem walls or plinths then I'm assuming the insulated wood floor sits on top. Is this a standard joisted floor? Can you describe the wood floor in terms of how its constructed and insulated?

The description of the "egawa (small porch) all around the structure" makes me think of a wrap-around porch, is that what you are talking about? What role does this play?

"Get yourself into the structure with wood heat, then ascertain "empirically" what other additional systems will serve you best. Radiant heat can be added very easily later on if the building is designed by a competent designer in these t/n modalities."

This sounds great b/c I'd rather actually live in the house and experience what is needed before investing in a backup heat source that may be too little or too much. Can you explain what design features would make it easier to add a system later on? What radiant heat system would you be referring to, is it baseboard-style?

TIA!

Hi Mariah,

...First, could you explain what a wall truss is in the context of a timber-framed skeleton? Second, what is a thermal diaphragm? And third, what is a cold roof/rain screen wall system?

Sure...my pleasure...

Wall truss are nothing more than what some call a "Larsen Truss" after a friend and colleague that did a lot of ground breaking work with "wall truss systems" during the late 70's and 80's during Jimmy Carter's push for better and more efficient building practices..

If you take a standard "actual" and fresh off the mill (not "nominal") 2x8 or 2x6 and split it into a 2x3 and 2x5 or into a 2x2 and 2x4, we are given the "ribs" of a wall truss. Then the "span" (which typically go 500mm on center) determine the width of the wall truss and the ones I design are at minimum 250 mm and up to 1 meter with an extra rib mid way. Because these are made with local lumber and all wood joinery (i.e. mortise and tenon) they are fast and efficient to manufacture "on site." Enough of them for entire project can usually be made by two craftspeople in less that 3 days (sometimes as little as one day if a simple house design.)

These give a far superior framework to creating the walls "thermal diaphragm," (a "diaphragm" is PE-Professional Engineer's language for the walls that function as space for insulation, electricals, HVAC, and in most examples today with 2x framing the superstructure of the walls...which are the 'minimum standards' in building...not the best standards...

Wall trusses ease facilitating the insulation of a structure and greatly speed up the process of running the electrical and mechanicals as these larger wall voids and uniform span placements act more like "chases" as found in commercial designs which are usually much better facilitated when it comes to projecting "augmentation, modification and updating" structures. Wall trusses also speak to the more advanced elements of disentanglement in architecture (i.e. the "framer" not getting in the way of the "electrician" who doesn't ever even give a thought to the "plumber" and what they are doing), which is greatly overlooked in our current domestic building market both mainstream and very much so by most t/n design builders. With disentanglement the entire design is working in concert with all its many different elements.

So if you are talking stem walls or plinths then I'm assuming the insulated wood floor sits on top. Is this a standard joisted floor? Can you describe the wood floor in terms of how its constructed and insulated?

I have been on many projects that are "budget poor" yet the job site is "material rich." For example in this immediate area I can still get excellent quality timber deliver to my job site (if not of the land itself) that is under $0.45 to $0.60 a board foot. This can still be had across the US and Canada....IF...the client/GC put in the effort to ferret out the smaller family owned or custom sawyers manage local woodlands.

The wood carrying beams and joist can either sit on top of a plinth post assembly and/or be part of a raised podii foundation system that takes full advantage of the timbers mass and higher relative "r value." A 300mm (~12") sill plate can have an r value greater than 18 and this does not even begin to address its other less understood, and acclaimed value of "thermal mass." It has the best of both worlds and is the primary reason a log cabin may have what many alleged "experts" call "low relative r value" yet do not speak to their thermal mass and good to excellent performance when well designed and built.

Massive timber joist can be simple (and less expensive) log joists that are only flattened on to sides and "set" on sills with a heavy "slab wood" (again lower grade or "pallet grade" lumber) subflooring that provides, once again, not only mass but better r value compare to plywood/osb, less expensive, and much more environmentally sustainable.

The description of the "egawa (small porch) all around the structure" makes me think of a wrap-around porch, is that what you are talking about? What role does this play?

Yep...

In traditional Bousillage Creole architecture this is often called a "hurricane porch" or veranda. Having "wrap arounds" do so much more than add architectural interest to a structure. They shade windows in the summer, move "good" living space outside, create a walkable space out of the elements that give the occupants the ability to move completely around the structure without actually having to leave the security of being up off the ground (a much important factor in regions with venomous animals or other potentially dangerous "wee beasties.")

This sounds great b/c I'd rather actually live in the house and experience what is needed before investing in a backup heat source that may be too little or too much. Can you explain what design features would make it easier to add a system later on? What radiant heat system would you be referring to, is it baseboard-style?

The features that ease augmentation/modification are the designers advanced abilities to project needed modularity in their given designs. In other words, enough experience in this work to understand how an entire structure works and potentially changes over time. Without good modularity, the future changes that inevitably take place must then involve "tearing something out" and the redoing it again to compensate for the change that was not planed for in the first place. Like I have said many times...most GC do not think this way nor care to. The profit more if the work has to be redone in the future.

Radiant heat can be as simple gas boiler as Bill had suggested or a larger Polaris system that Radiantec has used for many years that heats both the house and the domestic hot water. This "dual system" then avoids the need for both a "hot water tank" and a "heating unit." Baseboard units, refurbished steam radiators, in wall hydronics, and many more are available for consideration. Your contractor should know about every single thing I have brought up. If they do not, then they loose points of quality for each "I don't know." I spend a great deal of my time helping "project managers" vet and gauge potential GC for projects. A good GC can either answer every question you have and/or knows exactly (and quickly) how to get it. If the spend more time saying "I don't know...we do it this way," then it is time to keep shopping for a builder...

Please keep the questions coming, the keep me "on my toes" and help others in the same situation as you are. The more we can do well in documenting projects like yours from start to finish, then the better informed clients and DIYers will be in the "good practices" of t/n building...

Regards,

j

Some photo for clarification of elements:

This is so helpful, thank you!!

I love the wall truss system, allows you to build super thick, well insulated walls. So, next (obvious) question: what infill would you use? I believe you suggested mineral wool batt, what about densely packed cellulose? Other options?

Do the "ribs" not create thermal bridges across the wall thickness? (I suppose this would apply equally to regular stick-framed walls)

What other layers are there in this wall structure? Gypsum (drywall, yes?) on the inside? Vapour barriers? And what sort of exterior cladding can be used?

So you have a thick wall filled with wonderful insulation - is the idea to make this wall breathable? If not, is the home sealed tight and an air exchanger used?

Wrap-around porch, why is this needed? I confess, I've always disliked them (I totally get why you would want them in places that get super hot). Our winters are dark, grey and dreary and I want as much light as possible streaming in through the windows. And I want to see the sky out my windows! And how does that work with passive solar anyways?

TIA!

Hi Mariah,

Sorry I forgot to answer your question about "cold roofs and rainscreens."

So, let me get that one out of the way.

These two elements are extremely important and in some areas of Canada the are required in all architecture according to localized building code...a good rule of the all too many "stupid rules" that are in code.

When we build today there is this huge push for "air tight" systems closing in a living space. So efficient are these that homes can work without a very well balanced air intake system. Well this would actually be a "good thing"...IF...it would work. However, like so many "bright ideas" that humans come up with and only do limited testing in labs or worse by actually building with them...we have to wait till its too late to figure out..."oops, that does work as well as we thought."

Part of this system is wrapping everything in this allegedly "breathable plastics," (which they are not!) Then we further wrap the structures in more water proofing on the roof and usually asphalt shingles, and often metal or plastic siding. When on other occasions we go for the "fake natural look" by using wood siding and wood shingles we can't understand why these won't hold paint and rot so quick. Well it is because there is not "real" air circulation and actual permeability (breathability) to the system.

I can give a good (one of many) examples of modern traditional looking Capes built in places like Maine (similar to your area in climate but with much colder winters.) "Real" vintage Capes are timber frames, and the exterior walls are clad in cedar shingles that are not connected directly to the sheathing boards (in the better built versions.) These shingles are attached to a second layer of runner and purlins that create an "air gap" behind the shingles that allow air to circulate up and often into the "cold roof" further creating a "chimney effect" that carries moisture away and dries the siding from both sides. The modern Caps don't have this and the sill latex paints further trap moisture and the shingles decay and the paint peals...

So the simple answer is...a rainscreen and cold roof system is a way to vent behind siding and the roof material to dry it out effectively, and to carry to a certain degree moisture from inside the interstitial zones of walls...if...the structure is designed to be "draft proof" yet still have "breathable wall systems and finishes.

I love the wall truss system, allows you to build super thick, well insulated walls. So, next (obvious) question: what infill would you use? I believe you suggested mineral wool batt, what about densely packed cellulose? Other options?

I use whatever infill is the most cost effective, with the highest R (or U) value per the given design matrix...with the assumption it falls within the parameters of "traditional and/or natural" as well as, has a long proven empirical track record of success. So many "modern methods" are marketed and sold as "the way to do something," and most of them are "I think" concepts with no "long proven empirical track record"...These modern systems grew mainly out of the greed bred in the large companies that came from the Industrial Revolution (IR) not actual "good practices" in designs for building.

My first choice, if time and resources allow, is a 100% onsite made natural system from only local resources, like cobb, cordwood, log, sawdust, straw bale, recycle felt carpet padding, bousillage cobbing, light straw clay, wood chip slip, etc etc. The next is mineral wools which have been around for over 100 years and is a waste stream removed by product...Two big pluses that only get better considering mineral wool has none of the short falls found with cellulose. I can not tell you how often I take sopping wet cellulose out of walls that are "sealed" to prevent moisture from getting in them by house wraps and inside air barriers as well as other silly things like "breathable latex (i.e. plastic) paint, modern sheetrock plasters, and related nonsense...None of which work for very long...so...ergo the wet gobs of gooey cellulose in my hands...Then the fingers start pointing at all the reasons this happened, yet never seem to land of the fact that this "I think" concept really does not work...never has...not even a little bit. It is not a matter of "if they will fail" but "when they will fail" and how long it will take for the mold and other stuff to rot the wall and/or make folks sick?

Do the "ribs" not create thermal bridges across the wall thickness? (I suppose this would apply equally to regular stick-framed walls)

None of any significance within the overall context of the wall. There are more and more "net zero" all natural builds taking place every year, and more that are sure to come...

What other layers are there in this wall structure? Gypsum (drywall, yes?) on the inside? Vapour barriers? And what sort of exterior cladding can be used?

On the "down and dirty" and less expensive, "let's get this done jobs," there is no plastering usually taking place to get the project to turnkey status. Absolutely no vapour barriers of any kind...this is what causes the rot in the long run and I battle this demon with the alleged "experts" all the time. We won't to achieve a "draft proof" yet breathable wall/roof system...not a submarine or spaceship that can't function without a mechanical lung. I am not against a good "air to air heat exchanger" if a client really wants one, they aren't a negative per se, but I don't want the building (and its occupants) to have to really 100% on one for the oxygen they breath or a functional building dynamic.

The exterior is clad in wood (usually ship lap, board and batten, or live edge (a.k.a "Adirondack") siding) and the inside with more boards that can be oiled, milk painted or limewashed should a more colorful and/or bright finish be desired. The interior can also be covered in textile panels as another fast and flexible wall treatment system. Wood is also a good base for plaster work of all types in the future should one wish to do so. I love (there are only a few of us here in North America that can do it) "paper plasters" what is called "liquid silk" or "liquid paper" plasters.

So you have a thick wall filled with wonderful insulation - is the idea to make this wall breathable? If not, is the home sealed tight and an air exchanger used?

You know my thoughts on this by now...

Wrap-around porch, why is this needed? I confess, I've always disliked them (I totally get why you would want them in places that get super hot). Our winters are dark, grey and dreary and I want as much light as possible streaming in through the windows. And I want to see the sky out my windows! And how does that work with passive solar anyways?

The larger an over hang the longer and better siding lasts, is one main reason for them. Aesthetics are another, as most folks love the character and look of wrap arounds. If they are built correctly, oriented right and the structure is naturally elevated to be up off grade (too many house sit right at grade) then the do not lend themselves to a "dark house" at all, but rather a cool house in summers when the sun is high, and a warm house in winter when the sun is low.

I admit, I have never been a big fan of "passive solar designs." Don't get me wrong, I know of some great one that work and many that look wonderful, yet these are the exception...not the rule for the majority of them. They either only work half as good, have issues with the oversized window slowly failing, and other mitigating challenges.

Now...if someone wants to attach a greenhouse with a breeze way or atrium connector that can be completely closed of in the warmer months, I am all for that!

As for "seeing the sky" for my "sun-sky" lover clients we put large sky lite window or related clear cladding on the porch roof where the wall windows are or we have full "clearstory" fenestration systems designed for the structure...not a "down and dirty" aspect of a low cost build. Besides, porches do not block as much winter sun as most folks think...

Also, the bottom line is...its your house...if you don't want porches...don't have them. There absence isn't a show stopper, but you may have a "hotter house" in the summer or lots of curtains to shade the house, or heavy deciduous tree cover to block the sun...It is all hard to consider with out photos of a building site...which is my next request, if you can get them...

Regards,

j

Mariah,

It's really great to read your dialogue with Jay and see the change in thinking change your design. I believe you will be so much happier with the end result.

The only point that my opinion differs from Jay's is interior finish; I love lime plaster and so I would recommend plasterboard and plaster f some sort. Either real lime plaster or a hybrid like I mentioned before. Check out this thread on lime plastering drywall. Converting-latex-painted-drywall-lime

All Blessings,
Bill

Hi Bill, et el

Apple to you Bill...I do agree...with caveats...

Let me stress in an emphasized way that my...suggestion...about wood cladding inside and out, is only based on...$$$...of the material on a national average for both material, installation and finishing costs compared to "natural plaster finishes."

THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE!

The national average for "mud slingers" as a few of my plaster Artisan friends like to call themselves (whether lime, clay, gypsum or a blend there of) is between $3 and $5/ft2 for installation labor plus material cost which can vary sharply based on locations and area bearing market characteristics (e.g. Greenwich, Connecticut, vs. Areas of Texas and the South West where cost can drop significantly for both material and labor...)

Now when all of this meets the cost for just wood or textile cladding, then I agree 110% with Bill!! go with a lime, clay, gypsum plaster. I would further emphasize that these natural earth based finishes are not only aesthetically pleasing, but:

have an effect on the air quality of a structure for the positive...

damped temperature swings...

equalize humidity...

are easier to repair and change finishes on than is wood...

As I had said above (or I should have ) that when wood is used, it can later be plastered over should the cost become affordable or if the occupants tackle it themselves as a VERY DOABLE DIY project. I have actually seen very nice ornamental and well done simple "lath work" be installed on a wall painted with a lime/milk paint wash and live with for years very nicely facilitating hanging pictures and other art while give a beautiful effect to the walls...THEN...when the owners could afford the time/$$ they plaster the lath with there own blends of clay and tabby lime the learned to make. In some areas the lath was left and the wall below (wainscot) was plastered and textured. The finished work was priceless and significantly raised the resale value of this "starter home" for a young family...

Another recommendation I neglected was a wainscot of wood and wall of plaster above (or the reverse) is another way to have both elements and their benefits...

Now for some challenges with what many call...plasterboard, drywall or sheetrock...

This is potentially one of the most "polluted" materials in a home today other than the many VOC brought in by carpet padding, paints, cleaners, furniture stuffing, pest control companies, and related "nasties."

"Sheet good" products...can be...very "green", but even this can often be a misleading "greenwash" by a manufacture, as "green" has come to have many meanings. Green can (and has) come to mean 100% recycled material. Well...that's good... but is it? Not all "recycle sources" are "nontoxic." I have (and do) read about everything I can get my eye's to on these subjects. Sheet Good products are a big focus.

So...what are some of these downsides?

Well, biocides (which are toxic) for one can be a concern depending on the type, if they are present in the material matrix. Then we have all the polymers, binders and chemicals like vinyl acetate monomer, acetaldehyde and formaldehyde that is in so many of these products, and you (the consumer) has to "try" and dig through the cryptic and surreptitiously worded MSDS to try and figure out "what's what."

Now within this it has been stated that the, "National Gypsum Sheetrock Gypsum Panel" according to the manufacturer, are zero-VOC-emitting, and not manufactured with added formaldehydes..." Much of this is also made with recycled gypsum and recycled paper, yet one must wade through "which is which," or insist there GC/Project manager does this vetting before selecting the material. I should also probably state now that toxic forms of drywall aren't' just from China.

"...Sarasota Herald-Tribune describes the recent unfortunate experiences of homeowners whose homes have been contaminated with sulfur gases from U.S.-made drywall, manufactured with toxic synthetic gypsum. All standard drywall is made with at least some synthetic gypsum now, so before you purchase any standard drywall, check that the manufacturer has screened for the sulfur gases that result from poorly produced synthetic gypsum..."

Synthetic gypsum...even with the toxic sulfurs was considered...GREEN by manufactures and LEED authorities just because it was "recycled!!"

Drywall is “mold food.” Standard drywall acts like a sponge, taking up water and moisture vapor readily, and holds onto the moisture which is both a positive, but can also be a BIG negative. This happens more so when faced with paper and why I (et el) recommend it always be removed if trying to refurbish or used these "off the shelf" products. The must be allowed to "breath" and rapidly dry out if overly wetted, or within 48 hours of becoming wet in the event of a leak or flood, it becomes a perfect meal for mold. In high humidity areas, this can take place quickly over a short period of time. When moisture vapor isn't allowed to dry fast enough (like in most "airtight" structures of today) to the interior and/or exterior of the building, there is an interstitial build up within the walls and on the surfaces within the matrix of their construction. Additionally, with the now-routine recycling of drywall to make new drywall, there’s a possibility that the recycled materials contain dormant mold, which activates when moisture vapor rises too high and doesn't dry effectively enough due to...again...lack of permeability. It would be great if these sheet goods would have to meet a standard like nontoxicity levels according to German Bau-Biologie standards, which are stricter for health than U.S. green seals. They need to become either much more mold resistant, with better moisture transmission, so they dry to both toward the inside and outside of the architecture.

I prefer artisan and locally made/worked natural materials as much as possible for my builds, however this isn't always possible. So what do I recommend at this time other that what I have discussed thus far? Well if going with a bought "sheet good," these are on the top of my list if I can get my "mits on it," at a reasonable building/project cost.

DragonBoard

"...DragonBoard is a more than a wallboard. It is a construction panel, it can be replace plywood in exterior sheathing, subfloors, and related applications. It is manufactured with recycled wood waste dust and minerals, specifically magnesium oxide. Ancient Romans employed magnesium oxide to create superior natural cement.

Jet Board

This is the "American" version of dragonboard.

Both of these allegedly meet the Bau-Biologie criteria for health. Both can be more prone to cracking so closer attention to detail must be used in joint tapping, and other factors of installation. Because Dragonboard is shipped all the way from China, I have reservation for its use, but will live with it compared to more toxic alternatives. They don't seem to work well with Murco-100, as it requires a higher lime content, and especially if applied under natural plasters. These two magnesium oxide based boards are compatible with nontoxic ]Keim Dolomitspachtel joint compound.

Others of note that may be considered:

Magnum Board

HEMP TECHNOLOGIES COLLECTIVE

Hempcrete

hempline

Wheatboard

Hemp binder

Greenboard

natural mortars

ReWall, Essentialboard

Rewall Solutions

Jay, has anyone ever told you that you are an incredible writer? What is your typing speed anyway? I am a key board dork! Back in the early 70’s in grammar school I remember being in an all-girl typing class with the old mechanical typewriters. Although the scenery was nice, my forearms hurt and I was no good so I dropped it and went to auto shop. Had I known a computer age was coming I would have stuck to it. Your level of knowledge in this industry reminds me of my own as a thirty year aircraft design-build engineer. You put it all together extremely well and should write a book. I would definitely buy it.

After taking time off the past couple of years to R&D our spec home and develop our company I am heading back to aircraft to help design and develop the Stratolaucher. Goggle that one, very interesting bird.

During that time off I started looking at just about every mainstream building method out there and all the activity at sustaining it, and concluded there had to be a better way. Thanks to a nice guy on JLC user name MarkMC he pointed me to PISE construction and I have been researching it on other natural building methods ever since.

I ran across George Swanson’s “Breathable Walls” book and went and paid him a visit a couple of weeks ago. We were able to see some of the MGO homes he has built. I am working on the Chief Architect and financial models now, walls made out of wood/MGO/clay/mineral wool. Timbers have to be shipped in here, looking at cost. The Mag board is Dragonboard but I am getting them from George. We’ll mud with a MGO mix, joints are a little harder to sand since MGO is stronger than drywall mud. If you take a look at how the board is constructed, not only the material properties but, the structure it should be VERY apparent to the trained eye why it is far superior to “engineers wood” sheathing (OSB/plywood/hardboard/drywall, etc, much of which has been banned in parts of Germany and China) and we are getting it shipped in from China at about the same $ per SF. It will be a little more expensive than drywall, so if budget becomes a problem we use it in dry areas.

The MGO sprays and boards will provided moderate mass but much higher than mainstream thin wall construction and “breathability, moderate levels of air sealing (we are not playing the air seal high insulation game, rather we are incorporating high tight insulation(mineral wool) and thermal hygroscopic dynamic mass (MGO). Since the board is not thermally and electrically conductive, we are able to go “one-direct” eliminating many layers used in mainstream construction to reduce cost( no Tyvek, WRBs, siding, furring strips, etc)…We are using mineral based paints from Keim or ROMA…Check out ROMA’s sites and how misleading “low voc” EPA 24 test are in detecting emissivity of VOC or, what is referred to as TVOC. I have a sample coming since I hear it can transform the molecular structure of glue in drywall paper and acrylic paints to open and breathable (Bill then you would not have to tear it off)….that also may include a MGO/clay “bath” and makes drywall paper dry faster)….Give Jeffrey @ ROMA a call for more paint test info, tell him I sent you. I always admire, and I think you will agree Jay, websites that put the data out there and have nothing to hide. Caution: there are some things one must know before constructing a MGO home or it can be a disaster!

Our plaster cost here is $3-5, in Austin where George is $7-8 driving him to MGO. Austin is rediculosly expensive since the labor pool that was got greedy after the 2008 bubble. None of our trades understand natural renders that would take alot of training.

Before I leave back to bird land, our PM’s and GC’s employees are being required to take my mandatory training. We do not want them to be like 99.9% of the ones out there. As Jay pointed out, that are completely ignorant to the issues in mainstream construction and how to fix them. At lunch George told us that in Germany there is no 4 hour test to become a “GC”, you have to have 15 years of experience then pass a test, then you are then and only then regarded as an “trades engineer”. The Engineers and Scientist are required to have PHDs before taking on that title. I added the term “building science” to my title since I actually do it and get paid well to do it. After seeing average people call themselves that no other industry in the world would allow, without the proper education and experience, and I have been in several, have I ever seen people disclaim such a skill set. It is quite an insult to ones like Jay, Bill, and I that for decades have developed and earned the title.

Anyway, I am incorporating Vastu principles, central autriums or cooling towers (w/fan) learned from George for natural ventilation, sunlight, and season extension if I can get them past the sub-divisions developer, and wrap around porches. I’ll plan for an ERV but will see after the build if it is needed. From what I understand front porches went away post industrial revolution to the back were families I don’t know feel safer or private? I hope to resurrect that and get us back to more of social frontal homestead. I like the idea of being able to walk the perimeter. Thanks for the terminologies Jay.

As far as the complexities of mass and HVAC loads. I do have the capability to model them since that is what I do in acft, but I am not sure I will. Thanks to George I have a basic design load reduction due to the improved envelope. George says It is best to live in the place a while with another means of heat-cool but I as a builder cannot do that. The challenge and need for a SPEC Home.

I’ll probably start a design thread soon for inputs as soon as I figure Chief Architect Premier V7 out.

“German Bau-Biologie standards” This is an excellent organization George discusses in his book and is a part of: http://hbelc.org/

Thanks again for taking the time Jay, I learned some things.

Jay, I just got off the phone with a developers realtor and it reminded my of your comment about contractors. They are requiring I use his realtor to sell my homes and I told them I want to train one realtor that is it, that my homes are all natural for the chemical sensitive, and built better and I don't want to have to train every realtor I come in contact with. I told her there is some chemistry involved that separates us from the competition and if you are going to be my realtor you are going to have to be able to understand and communicate this with clients. Jay, will you sell my homes? Just kidding!

Off to meet with another developer and realtor that supposedly has new "energy efficient" homes. Word I got from our local "Energy Guy" at our building association code meeting yesterday is that they can not get builders out there since they are afraid of third party testing and cost. We should fit like a glove and pass with flying colors. I LOVE this industry

Awesome Terry!

I hope you can continue to provide your insightful perspective to this forum and I really look forward to your MgO design posts.

All Blessings,
Bill

Hi Terry...thanks..

I can ramble on at anywhere from 80 to 120 words a minute on subjects I love and know well...but I am a slow editor because of spelling issues and my picky nature for "good flow" in contextual understanding of what I write for the reader...

I agree Bill, Terry is a greater asset that I think I have befriended in many years, as are you. It is most impressive and speaks volumes when an academic and erudite researcher like Terry or yourself...takes that step back...to ask..."wait...why are we building this way?" If more in our trade would actually grow a conscious and stop with the "I can't see it from my house," mentality things would begin to change. When greed and speed alone are removed...thing improve vastly...

I also think we could see MgO materials really take a huge chunk of the "wallboard" market in the next decade, as well as, more folks coming over to "natural material based draft proof and breathable architecture" vs "airtight and technology laden," architecture...

Regards,

j