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Carbon, good for carbon credits and reducing the carbon dioxide in the air.

 
rose macaskie
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A Short on Divagation on Carbon.
    We breath in carbon dioxide and after holding onto the two oxygen atoms, di means 2 two, so dioxide is two oxygen atoms, and we breath out the carbon.

  So carbon is in the air we breathe,
    It is also carbon dioxide that bubbles out of champagne.
    If you mix hydrochloric acid and bicarbonate of soda carbon dioxide that will bubble off your mixture, after salt and water have formed from hydrochloric acid and bicarbonate of soda mix. Incredible. I am drawing a diagram of how this happens to insert here, agri rose macaskie.
 
Burra Maluca
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rose macaskie wrote:

     We breathe in carbon dioxide and after holding onto the two oxygen atoms, di means 2 two, so dioxide is two oxygen atoms, and we breathe out the carbon.



Er, think you might want to go over that bit again... 
 
rose macaskie
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Burra maluca, Well i have not looked it up, it is a memory from school that we breath in carbon dioxide and out carbon, is it more complicated? What is your take on it? It is hard to answer you if you don't give your own side of the story? rose

modification,
    It seems you are right, I have been looking up respiration, we breath in oxygen though the air is full of other things like nitrogen and out carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is only a small percent of the air. agri rose macaskie.
 
rose macaskie
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Carbons are not just the fizz in our drinks they are in all our food and in wood and wood can be a building material.

        I have a book on alimentation that gives a cooking oil molecule in a simplified form as being made up of these atoms -:

H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H
C-  C C C C C C C  C C C C C C C C C -COOH
H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H

The H are hydrogen atoms and the C’s carbon atoms  so you can see there are a fair amount of carbons in a cooking fat.

This next molecule is very schematic sugar molecule which has six carbon atoms in it and seven hydrogen ones and five hydroxide, OH, so sugar too contains lots of carbon atoms.

  H  H  H  OH  H    H
OH  C  C  C  C  C  C
  H  OH  OH  H  OH  O

   
      In plant cells, a formula I have seen for a cellulose molecule has this chemical make up, C6 H10, and several oxygen atoms.  That is made up of six carbon atoms , ten hydrogen atoms  and I can’t read my notes on how many oxygen atoms. A diagram of a typical structure of lignin’s chemical formula also includes lots of carbons. Organic matter is full of carbons.

        What happens to these carbons that are part of wood straw stalks bark bodies etc, when you incorporate them into soil is one of the things that is interesting if you want to keep carbon out of the atmosphere, so that there will be is less carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and you do if you are responsible or if you want carbon credits.

    Of course building a house with the wood also keeps carbon out of the atmosphere. Until the wood roots, the carbon in it stays locked in the wood.

      When organic matter in soil, particulate organic matter, breaks down, the carbon in it turns back into a gas, except that which gets caught up in humic acids and in humins and in glomalin.

      The normal thing would be for organic material to break right down into carbonic acid and water but they don’t they stop at a certain point and simple products of decomposition like turn into more complex compounds, the humic acids, the God molecules of decomposition except I think religion is dangerous so I should not give the religious information they can use. Humates do a lot of things and pretty surprising ones that help plants so not only is is ¡t surprising that they form but their properties are also surprising and beneficial. I got this information from the writing of dr. Boris Levinsky which are very interesting that you find in Google with the word “humates” choosing the article, “the theory behind humates” that is on the site www.teravita .com on the first page of articles on humates that Google offers.
      Humates aren’t only magically beneficial to plants they also store a lot of carbon in the soil. A diagram of part of a humate molecule drawn by Dr. Boris Levinsky  includes 15 carbon atoms, 14 oxygen atoms, and 21 hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen atom. So humates store plenty of carbon in the soil. They are very long lasting, if circumstances stay stable they can last for a thousand years or more.

      Glomalin the other substance in the soil that holds lots of carbon was discovered in 2006 by Sarah F Wright, it is a substance exuded by arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi,  that surrounds their hypha and lasts in the soil long after the hypha has died. It is full of carbon and can stay in the soil up to fifty years, people used to think that most of the carbon maintained in the soil was held in humic acids and humins, these contain 8, 0\0 of the carbon held for a long time in the soil and glomalin 27, 0\0 but only lasts only last from between 7 – 27 years while humates can last for hundreds of years and even more than a thousand years in the soil. Agri rose macaskie
 
Burra Maluca
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Well, you breathe *in* oxygen, and you breathe *out* carbon dioxide. 

The carbon in the carbon dioxide you breathe out comes from the food you eat.  Plants 'breathe' carbon dioxide in and trap it, using the sun's energy, as carbohydrates.  Sometimes the plant converts these carbohydrates to fats, which are also carbon-rich energy stores.  We eat the plants, break the carbohydrates or fats down, release the energy for use in our bodies, and breathe the carbon out in the form of carbon dioxide. 

To be fair, it might not be your memory at fault - if you went to school in the UK like I did it's more likely to be bad teaching... 

Here's a pretty picture to help...





 
Tyler Ludens
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Seems to me hugelkultur could be a good way to sequester carbon.  One could plant fast-growing trees and coppice them regularly, burying bundles of sticks in hugel beds.

 
rose macaskie
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Bad teaching eh.
i have read your addition more carefluly and it is nice of you to suppose it is bad teaching but i had some very good teachers and especially so in biology i never learnt anythng itf i did not. I am so gratefull for my gramar school education and for the loittle sxhool who pretended to be catholic beause their head was and all their prayers and teachers were protestant. the convent had good clsses in literature and painting but was incredibley bad in everything else and incedibly unfriendly on the level other girls were not ferienldy for years.
      I think that over the years i have changed the story a bit. I learnt the right formula and then started thinking the logical thing was that we breathed in carbon dioxide separated out the two substances and kept the oxygen. It is not logical that we breath in oxygen, there are so many other things in the air. Into our blood maybe, but into our lungs? We must take in the full mix of what is in the air.
     I used to think that I was a bad student except in a one or two parts of my studies but I have found out that i was not that bad, it amazes me how much I learnt, so getting something wrong occasionally, getting my knickers in a twist once in a while, no longer phases me or makes me willing to be totally trampled underfoot.
      Here in Spain anything I said that was silly or irresponsible or that could be made to sound it has been so stored up crystallized, pickled and served out to all and anything ok that I have said so thrown into a corner or twisted that I don’t mind hitting out at Spaniards though in all truth it might be unfair to attack the whole country, I got in with a tough lot. With the lot I know, it is every word you say will be taken down and used against you. That is why they are so discreet themselves, which makes them a bit boring.
      I have been criticized here for not knowing politics, Spanish politics are so different from English ones and i never specialized in history or politics, still it seems i know more than my old lack of confidence allowed me to imagine i did.
    I was very ignorant and still am on things like anarchy that was a big movement hereand successful while it lasted educating villagers to a high level but on biology? I am not a science person but here in Spain the ignorance on the basics of biology among people that don't study it, is so big it would be hard to beat them, and i am talking of university types.
        The competitiveness is so great in Spain that you can't brain storm anything, those you are working with are only trying to knock you out of the running, that is what i call undisciplined thinking and normal in a country with such a profoundly arrogant upper class or middle class that is accostomed to thinking that equalitarian behavior is their lowering themselves enough to talk to you about some topic they consider appropriate for idiot rather than having the bounty to treat you as an equal and talk of something interesting. How can academics work if each one is trying to knock the other out of the running instead of sharing information?

      Some people seem to think that intellectualness is what is more accurately is described as encyclopedic knowledge, some knowledge is part of being intellectual but disciplined thinking is the other part. Knowledge can be adquired when you need it, more especially so with a computer in the house, it is the ability to compare and contrast information and trying to get the full picture, knowing how to research, breaking down and rebuilding ideas and knowing how to pool information and hunches and so sort out ideas with other people, what House does with his team that turns you into an intellectual as much as encyclopedic knowledge does.
     It is for me improbable that House would work so well with others and be a complete pig, enough of a pig to keep discipline yes but not a complete pig,  so i think the program falsifies all likely reality and makes the manipulative those whose only gift is to make  others jump feel they are brilliant like House, who is very imaginative and knowledgeable and good at medicine as well as able to get people functioning, and also the program makes it more that people will imagine that totally manipulative destructive people might be also able to do group work, and be good teachers as  House is. It promotes false expectations promotes people falling into the hands of the destructive more easily.
      Some people have a strict idea of what they consider intellectual, if you aren't famous you can make no pretentions to that status, however i think that all conversation that is not frivolous and conversation that seek to be just and fair may be considered intellectual. So many topics have to do with human welfare, from understanding human behavior, un-malicious gossip, to how to feed the world, to politics and many others.
        I have been treated like an idiot for thirty years here in Spain, in England too in all truth. People have been quick to remember anything stupid i said and have not been interested in anything i knew or anything fair and responsible I said, so i don't mind hitting out at those who have hit out at me for so long. It is however a Spaniard who taught me to hit back thank heavens, though I always wanted to make friends and hitting back makes that hard but befor ei was awfully nice to people though they did not recognise iut like did p and it turns out they thought i was idling in the kitchen i don't understnd it . paid for their holidays in part and such i dug a big hole for myself by being nice .. agri rose macaskie.
 
rose macaskie
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burra maluca it is nrmal if you write a ot on things to make a mistake like not to cheque up information tha you learnt years ago once in a while and i do a lot of chequng and cross chequing but more so with whtat i have just read i stupidley fell more sure of what i learnt years ago. Science is not my sujbect . even the things that are my subject are things in which i have specialized in one small thing or another not htings i have a large general knowledge on. I new a atromoner who came here to Spain to use one of the telescopes here- He only new about one small, from the earth, patch of sky, and you have to be good to get given tme on the telesecopes.
  If you dont stick your neck out far you wont make many mistakes but if you do, well you are bound to. HO
How much the people here in Spain have wanted me to make mistakes so they can say  Spain is better than England, it is like a curse and i did not used to show off my knowledge just an ocasional bi tor two or be compettive, it was easy for them. If you want to be everyones fool go and live in a foriegn country.  rose.
 
Burra Maluca
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Rose - you worry too much!  The whole point of a forum like this is that we can all pull together.  If one of us gets the wrong end of the stick about something, the rest of us can point it out.  It's one way we all learn.  And I'm like you too in that I left the UK to live in Portugal, so I'm busy making lots of my own mistakes here.  We have more in common than you think!

It's past my bed-time, but if I get a chance tomorrow I'll try to explain the logic of why we have lungs and we don't just break the carbon off the carbon dioxide to give us oxygen.  But I'm way too tired at the moment...

Have you ever heard the saying 'He who never made a mistake probably never made anything'?  Mistakes are how we learn.  And I'm learning plenty at the moment... 
 
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