• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

Has anyone grown kamut (Khorasan)?

 
pollinator
Posts: 655
Location: South West France
254
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A few days ago, someone gave me some seeds of kamut and I was wondering if anyone has any idea how to grow it. Is it a winter or summer grain? Should I plant it now or wait for the autumn and would it grow in a poor soil like spelt? I would be grateful for any information, specially coming from personal experience. Thanks!
 
Posts: 100
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
TO: Olga Booker
FROM: Eric Koperek = erickoperek@gmail.com
SUBJECT: Kamut cultivation
DATE: PM 5:35 Monday 2 May 2016
TEXT:

(1) Kamut is a type of durum wheat = wheat grown especially to make noodles and other forms of pasta. Durum flours can also be used to make flatbreads. Durum flours are not good for making pan breads = sandwich loaves.

(2) Kamut is still grown in Egypt where it is used primarily to make flatbreads.

(3) Kamut has a unique distinguishing feature = its seeds are twice as large as common bread wheat seeds. So, if your seeds aren't really big, then you don't have real kamut.

(4) Kamut is grown as a spring grain in Egypt = don't plant it in the fall like winter wheat.

(5) I don't know how much seed you have. If the amount is small plant 1 seed per square foot or 1 seed per linear foot of row.

(6) Harvest when seeds are hard and plants are fully dry.

(7) Place threshed seed in a freezer for 24 hours to kill insect pests.

( Store freeze-treated kamut seed in air-tight containers with bay leaves to keep out insect pests.

ERIC KOPEREK = erickoperek@gmail.com

end comment.
 
author & steward
Posts: 7156
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
3345
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Plant seeds about 1/2" deep. Stomp them in good. I expect them to sprout about 3 days after the first rain or irrigation.

 
Olga Booker
pollinator
Posts: 655
Location: South West France
254
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you both for your quick reply. I take it that I can plant it now, rather then wait for the autumn. I must say that I am rather excited and looking forward to the result. Thanks again and have a lovely day - sorry, it's 7.30am here in France and the sun is already over the mountain and promising a glorious day.
 
gardener
Posts: 3545
Location: Central Oklahoma (zone 7a)
1259
forest garden trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't know the first thing about growing it but I love to include some whenever I am making a cooked grains mix in my rice cooker. The larger grains give some nice texture and visual variance to the mix, and it tastes good too.
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator


KAMUT® Brand khorasan is an organic, non-genetically modified, ancient wheat variety similar to durum. In 1990, “KAMUT” was registered as a trademark by the Quinn family in order to support organic farming and preserve the ancient khorasan wheat variety. Under the KAMUT® Brand name, this khorasan wheat must always be grown organically, never be hybridized or modified, and contain high levels of purity and nutrition. Today, Kamut International owns and has registered the KAMUT® trademark in over 40 countries, and is responsible for the protection and marketing of all KAMUT® Brand khorasan wheat throughout the world.

Kamut International promotes and protects the KAMUT® brand name by focusing efforts on supply chain integrity, trademark monitoring, research, education, marketing, and customer relations. These activities are supported in part, through a no-cost trademark license agreement with companies using the grain in products they manufacture and /or sell. The trademark license agreement facilitates establishing a supply chain that can be reviewed, thus ensuring the integrity and purity of the grain. Any khorasan wheat grown outside the program should not be called "KAMUT(R)" wheat, but rather by the generic term "khorasan" wheat.

KAMUT® wheat is grown on dryland certified organic farms primarily in Montana, Alberta, and Saskatchewan. Khorasan wheat is distinctive because it is about two and half times larger than regular durum wheat, is elongated with a pronounced “hump,” and is uniquely vitreous, with a rich golden color. The grain is prized by consumers who appreciate the grain for its high energy nutrition, easy digestibility, nutty/buttery taste, and firm texture. KAMUT® khorasan wheat is higher in protein, lipids, selenium, amino acids, and Vitamin E than most modern wheat and contains essential minerals such as magnesium and zinc. It is used as whole grain berries, whole grain flour, white flour, flakes, and puffs to make a variety of products. Some specific benefits of using KAMUT® khorasan are receiving more nutrients, protein, and taste than most commonly consumed whole wheat - plus supporting organic agriculture and helping to preserve an ancient grain.

Khorasan is a variety of wheat thus has gluten content. A lot of people who are not able to tolerate wheat tell us that they are able to tolerate KAMUT® khorasan wheat. KI has ongoing research to understand why – it is our theory that because KAMUT® khorasan is an ancient grain, it retains the qualities that made it desirable so many years ago.

KAMUT® wheat has never been modified or altered in any way. It has been found to reduce inflammation and improve conditions of those suffering from IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) and heart disease. In fact, a study recently published in the journal Nutrients revealed that a KAMUT® khorasan wheat-based replacement diet actually improves the risk profile of patients with ACS (acute coronary syndrome). A previous study in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that a KAMUT® khorasan wheat-based replacement diet could potentially reduce the risk of developing cardiovascular disease in healthy people. And a third study in the British Journal of Nutrition showed significant reduction in symptoms associated with IBS. In all three of these published reports, KAMUT® wheat products were compared to modern wheat products in double blind crossover studies with human volunteers. Earlier this year, KAMUT® wheat was named by TIME magazine as one of the top 50 healthiest foods of all time.

Please visit the Kamut International website at www.kamut.com to learn more. And follow us on Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, and Twitter to keep up with the latest news!


My kind regards - Jamie



Jamie Ryan Lockman | Regional Director – North America
Kamut International, Ltd.
P.O. Box 4903 | Missoula, MT 59806 | USA
406.251.9418 phone | 406.251.9420 fax
jamie.lockman@kamut.com | www.kamut.com
 
Olga Booker
pollinator
Posts: 655
Location: South West France
254
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dan Boone wrote:I don't know the first thing about growing it but I love to include some whenever I am making a cooked grains mix in my rice cooker. The larger grains give some nice texture and visual variance to the mix, and it tastes good too.



Hi Dan, I love kamut, I think it makes a lovely bread, but like you, I don't know the first thing about growing it. Anyway, I planted my seeds this morning and if Joseph is right, in 3 days I should see them sprouting. Can't wait!

Thanks to everyone for the replies.
 
pollinator
Posts: 872
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
175
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes I've grown it, more or less.

Kamut is a trademarked product which refers to the plant traditionally known as Khorasan wheat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorasan_wheat

I obtained my original seeds from the Canadian gene bank, and it is classified as an emmer rather than a durum (I obtained a durum wheat at the same time, called Kabanka durum). From what I can gather, it is not really an emmer, or a durum wheat, but something in between, and there is some confusion when classifying it.

It's a little different (the seeds are a bit smaller) than Kamut, but growing actual Kamut would be straightforward as it's available at the local bulk food store.

Anyway, it grows tall, and the straw is good and strong which is handy as a construction or thatching material. My records show about 10 to 14 days between planting and emergence. You want to space the seeds as you would a modern wheat variety (3 '' apart) and looking for a planting density of around 20 to 25 seeds per square foot.

I have been experimenting baking bread with Kamut in preparation for when my own wheat is producing. I typically don't use more than about 15% in the recipe as it makes the loaf very brick like. I have done a lot of reading and come to the conclusion that modern bread making techniques that involve kneading were developed in response to the advent of refined white flour.

After many failed attempts, I have finally nailed making bread with 50% dark rye, 15% Kamut, and 35% whole wheat. It involves cool fermenting the Kamut and rye together in a 120% hydrated poolish (a baking term) for three days. I then mix in the whole wheat flour without adding any more yeast, or kneading it, and let it rise for about 8 hours before baking. It is a very wet dough by modern white bread standards, but it produces a loaf that is better suited for the table than it is as a construction material.
 
Joseph Lofthouse
author & steward
Posts: 7156
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
3345
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nick Kitchener wrote:Kamut is a trademarked product which refers to the plant traditionally known as Khorasan wheat:



It's for that reason, that I recommend that the name "Khorasan" always be used when talking about this wheat.
 
Posts: 35
4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Olga Booker wrote:

Hi Dan, I love kamut, I think it makes a lovely bread, but like you, I don't know the first thing about growing it.  Anyway, I planted my seeds this morning and if Joseph is right, in 3 days I should see them sprouting.  Can't wait!

Thanks to everyone for the replies.



I’m thinking about planting some, too - how did yours do? Have you tried it again? I would love any tips or suggestions!
 
Posts: 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You may be interested in a lady that makes bread from this grain (the reason I googled‘ancient grains’)
Google
Homesteading Family
& look at her bread making section x
 
pollinator
Posts: 166
84
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
No direct personal experience, I'm just looking myself, but this page suggests fall planting is traditional:
"https://www.agrownet.com/contents/en-us/p388_Khorasan-wheat-(Kamut)_Cultivation_agrownet_Khorasan-wheat-(Kamut)_crop_management.html"

Because it is a heritage long straw wheat variety, it might be well suited to the Marc Bonfils method of growing wheat (a variation on Fukuoka's rice culture).  Basically, into an established bed of white clover (low height nitrogen fixer, so won't compete excessively for light with young wheat plants), sparsely plant (30-36 inch square grid - really) single grains of wheat, not earlier than a week before the summer solstice.  Let grow all summer and winter over, then harvest the following year in mid-summer.  Interplant the coming crop into the established grid of plants.  Repeated cycles of planting and harvest in the same plot will reputedly build a very deep (up to 3 meters) soil profile.  Might be worth a try, since Khorasan is apparently suitable for fall planting.
 
Joseph Lofthouse
author & steward
Posts: 7156
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
3345
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
In my USDA zone 4/5 garden, Khorasan wheat doesn't overwinter reliably.
 
Kevin Olson
pollinator
Posts: 166
84
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:In my USDA zone 4/5 garden, Khorasan wheat doesn't overwinter reliably.



Interesting.  I know last winter was pretty snowy in the lower Cache Valley.  Not so sure about up by Preston.  But, our son is presently a part-time resident of SLC (he currently works as a traveler in the medical sector), and we have friends in Smithfield, so I do sort-of pay attention to the weather there.  When I was a kid, we lived in the Teton Valley, then for a while at the north end of Bear Lake, too.  The Cache Valley always struck me as somewhat Edenic, as a kid.

Where I am now, it's Zone 4, but most years there is deep snow cover, so the ground only freezes a few inches deep early in the winter, then thaws, due to the insulation of the snow.  At least, if the snow remains undisturbed.  I would anticipate less winter kill because of that, unless we happen to have a year with scant snow and/or extraordinarily frigid temperatures.

For the unreliable winters of Khorasan trials, was there good snow cover, or not?  Did you plant late (say, August or later), or did you plant earlier in the growing season - summer solstice - a la Bonfils?  Marc asserted that the shortening day length after the solstice would not allow tillering, though there would still be lush to rank vegetative growth.  The corresponding deep root mass to support the vegetation also allegedly helped to promote better viability over the winter, and improved drought resistance.

The following spring, the wheat would come back with a vengeance, with hundreds- to thousands-fold return at harvest.  He claimed that his yields were as high as 150 quintals per hectare in the French Pyrenees, after a deep soil profile was established.  That's 15 long tonnes per hectare, which isn't far off the world record for yields with very intensive mechanical cultivation.  A farmer in New Zealand had a new world record a few years ago, using RWS Kerrin seed and much spraying, fertilizing, irrigating, etc. of just over 17 long tonnes per hectare.  From what I can gather, other practitioners of Marc's method expect more like 10 long tonnes per hectare - still pretty high yield for a cereal.

I have some Banatka wheat to trial this way, and had established a clover bed to plant into, but I may need to beg space from my nephew and start over.  The sewer company keeps excavating my side yard where I planted the clover bed.  Quite frustratingly, in fact.  And not for my sewer, either.  But, it's a long story.
 
This tiny ad has a self esteem problem. Too much self esteem.
permaculture and gardener gifts (stocking stuffers?)
https://permies.com/wiki/permaculture-gifts-stocking-stuffers
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic