• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Dan Boone
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
  • Mike Barkley

mycorrhizae - inoculation with commercial culture or ?

 
pollinator
Posts: 869
Location: Virginia USDA 7a/b
153
hugelkultur forest garden hunting chicken food preservation bee
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Folks,

My non-permie advisor uses a commercial mycorrhizal culture to inoculate disturbed/pitiful areas. I would use compost but I don't really have any yet. I am working with a pretty crappy soil culture.

Has anyone used these? I went in through the Evil Empire link so Paul will be stoked...

RTI Xtreme

I may use to inoculate my (few) compost sites. Really, just advice on how to start. All the threads I have seen talk about using comfrey, nettle, manure mix, etc. Here is the most recent.  I am trying to jump start fertility on acres of hardpan. I have seeds in and they are doing so-so, but I want to have a huge carbon harvest this spring/summer, and I am willing to pay the $40 if that will save a couple years getting the process rolling.

I was planning on getting out there with a sprayer/spreader and inoculating big areas just before a rain. We are talking about a few acres, so not really able to bring in mulch material and I'm sort of against it out of principle. This seems like the lowest impact way of making it happen, IF if works. The only stuff doing well right now is the daikons and perennial rye. I've had poor germination from my N fixers and the ones in the fields have no nodules, so I was thinking of inoculating with an appropriate fixation culture at the same time. People before were poisoning the place with phosphates...

 
Posts: 78
Location: USDA zone 6a/5b
4
forest garden food preservation bee
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i haven't used that exact one, but i have used myco inoculates before with successs.

Your idea of inoculating the area before a rain is good, but i would inoculate AND sow seed before the rains.

 
gardener
Posts: 5937
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
885
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken pig homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Like Kevin mentions, mychorrizal fungi and inoculation only work on either bare root plants or seeds for best results.
A mycorrhizal culture would be activated mycorrhizae and would work best by dipping bare root plants into the solution just prior to planting out.

mycorrhizae live inside and between plant root cells, here they process minerals and other nutrients and make it possible for the roots to draw these items into and up the plant systemic system.

It is possible to add mycorrhizae to already planted trees and plants it takes about 2 gallons (8 liters) of solution per square foot of soil surface to get good connections this way.

Redhawk
 
Tj Jefferson
pollinator
Posts: 869
Location: Virginia USDA 7a/b
153
hugelkultur forest garden hunting chicken food preservation bee
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sound advice, both. Thanks for your input. I'm going to do this and the zaikultuur, in a sort of controlled fashion. I will post some pictures when I get them...
 
Posts: 268
Location: South Central Kansas
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am trying to jump start fertility on acres of hardpan.
Gypsum is supposed to loosen hardpan.
I have hardpan here as well so built a hugelgarden over it (removed the lousy 4-6inches of native soil).

This is my 1st year using Mykos. Directions say to sprinkle it on the root ball and put a spoonful into the planting hole.

The seller said not to use epsom salt directly with it.

Humus too is supposed to loosen hardpan.

Settlers when they 1st got here needed dynamite to loosen the soil!



 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5937
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
885
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken pig homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hau Kai, While Gypsum will loosen hardpan it is the long term (read slowly) solution, Lime mixed with Gypsum gives you both fast action and slow action on the loosening hardpan front.
It is generally best to lay these two products on the soil, wet them then spread a cover crop seed so there will be roots finding the cracks and working down into them, this also tends to take some of the lime and gypsum along for the ride down into the soil.

Humus is a product that is actually hard to come by in the real world, what most people call and think of as humus is simply well broken down compost (humus is a liquid and is what leaches into the soil out of compost heaps).

Hardpan requires patience to improve texture and friability in by permaculture (natural) means.

Redhawk
 
Kai Walker
Posts: 268
Location: South Central Kansas
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here is an excellent site with M.F. information!

https://moldresistantstrains.com/diy-how-to-make-mycorrhizal-fungi-inoculant/
 
Kai Walker
Posts: 268
Location: South Central Kansas
3
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:Like Kevin mentions, mychorrizal fungi and inoculation only work on either bare root plants or seeds for best results.
A mycorrhizal culture would be activated mycorrhizae and would work best by dipping bare root plants into the solution just prior to planting out.

mycorrhizae live inside and between plant root cells, here they process minerals and other nutrients and make it possible for the roots to draw these items into and up the plant systemic system.

It is possible to add mycorrhizae to already planted trees and plants it takes about 2 gallons (8 liters) of solution per square foot of soil surface to get good connections this way.

Redhawk



Mykos  https://www.xtreme-gardening.com/mykoss has a wettable powder (spores but little or no clay) you mix with water.
The spores get down to even more roots when you water with it.

While not optimal it can replace dead ones or add a few more to new roots.

We had 12 inches of rain in past few weeks - almost an entire year's worth.
I am afraid my M.F. are all drowned....
Soil so soggy that plants are dying and your feet go squish squish squish when you walk anywhere.
Been that way for weeks now.

 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5937
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
885
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken pig homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You and I are in pretty much the same boat (ground saturation wise) kai, on my way into the city today I took a look at the bridge supports and they are just about underwater, the Arkansas river is going to peak at the historic 200 year level or higher since we are going to get another 4 to 6 inches of rain today and tomorrow and then next Monday through Thursday. This is going to end up being the wettest winter/spring on history for Arkansas, it isn't there yet but we will see this happen if things keep going as they currently are going. I am very happy that I live on a mountain top.
 
Kai Walker
Posts: 268
Location: South Central Kansas
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:You and I are in pretty much the same boat (ground saturation wise) kai, on my way into the city today I took a look at the bridge supports and they are just about underwater, the Arkansas river is going to peak at the historic 200 year level or higher since we are going to get another 4 to 6 inches of rain today and tomorrow and then next Monday through Thursday. This is going to end up being the wettest winter/spring on history for Arkansas, it isn't there yet but we will see this happen if things keep going as they currently are going. I am very happy that I live on a mountain top.



On a good note: no significant rains for the next 10 days.

I'm not sure I want to replant yet.

Any idea if diseases/insects drown when soil is saturated?

Could be the silver lining so to speak.

Edit:

No significant rains here that is.

I just worry that once it stops then a drought begins....
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5937
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
885
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken pig homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I haven't noticed any reduction in insects, it seems they are as prolific as last year so far. Insects usually only die off with a 30 day freeze event in Arkansas, our tick population has exploded because of a lack of cold over the winter months.
We are raising our beds but only half of the reason is the unusually wet last 6 months, the other half is because we are aging and bending over for long periods is now painful, so raise the bed height and sit will work better for us over the next 20-30 years.

I've also noticed an increase in mycelium fruiting frequency, which indicates that the mycelium is growing slower and thus needing to fruit more often.
Molds are increasing as well because of all the dampness. I expect that we won't have the usual drought over the summer months since we should already be in that cycle and we have at least two more weeks of rain already predicted.
This is partly because of the El Nino that is continuing and the warming pacific currents, surface temps in the Northern California upwelling area are 2 degrees warmer than they should be, so this is a disturbing trend that indicates we aren't through with changing weather patterns yet.

Redhawk
 
Posts: 46
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it is better if you start small to avoid frustration. Handling acres of land might not be that easy.
 
I carry this gun in case a vending machine doesn't give me my fritos. This gun and this tiny ad:
Taylor&Zach’s Bootcamp Journey
https://permies.com/t/115886/permaculture-projects/Taylor-Zach-Bootcamp-Journey
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!