I just dropped the price of
the permaculture playing cards
for a wee bit.

 

 

uses include:
- infecting brains with permaculture
- convincing folks that you are not crazy
- gift giving obligations
- stocking stuffer
- gambling distraction
- an hour or two of reading
- find the needle
- find the 26 hidden names

clickity-click-click

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4 o'clocks  RSS feed

 
Jane Southall
Posts: 85
Location: Limestone, TN
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Has anyone experienced 4 o'clocks as dynamic accumulators?  I have them here and there.  I just love the plant and am searching for justifications for having 30 or so. 

http://gaiacreationsecoland.blogspot.com/2012/08/due-diligence-four-oclock-plants.html?m=1
 
Stacy Witscher
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area
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It's an invasive here. I've been battling it for years.
 
Jane Southall
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I had no idea was invasive anywhere.  No one grows it in my area.
 
Stacy Witscher
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My neighbors entire front yard is four o'clocks. I spend a good deal of time each year, pulling out seedlings and tubers all along the fence line until about 2 feet in on my property.
 
wayne fajkus
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I almost got mine gone. One little bit of tuber left behind and out pops a new plant. Some of the tubers were huge. Some were literally under my concrete slab. What a pain to dig them out.
 
Jane Southall
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I guess is climate related.  Sorry you guys have this problem.  I will be careful.  Though, have only seen them self seed in vicinity of plant thus far,
 
Stacy Witscher
Posts: 128
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I find invasiveness issues are often a matter of climate or region. I'm constantly seeing people on the internet warn about wisteria. Wisteria is not at all invasive here. It is a highly prized ornamental. The college I attended had a very old wisteria, from it's mission days, people came to admire it. So I wouldn't necessarily worry about it. But, as always, keep your eyes open. And I find the tubers to be more of an issue than the seeds, as new seedlings are easier to remove. Tubers will regrow if even a little bit remains.
 
Todd Parr
pollinator
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Location: Wisconsin, zone 4
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Jane Southall wrote: I just love the plant and am searching for justifications for having 30 or so. 



I stopped doing that to myself.  If you love the plant, that is reason enough to grow it.  Our homes and gardens should bring us joy.  If they make you happy, plant them.
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 6039
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Todd Parr wrote:
Jane Southall wrote: I just love the plant and am searching for justifications for having 30 or so. 



I stopped doing that to myself.  If you love the plant, that is reason enough to grow it.  Our homes and gardens should bring us joy.  If they make you happy, plant them.


I agree with Todd...It's important to grow things you love...a lot of folks grow them here and I don't see them running rampant.  I have a couple in pots from a plant exchange that I have yet to find the perfect spot.   I think they prefer some shade?   I think one could always 'chop and drop' them for some control, maybe use in the compost or as mulch.  As long as there were no seeds or roots I don't see a problem.  Might not be a dynamic accumulator but all that green bio mass is good none the less.


Funny about the wisteria in SF...planting it here is one of my big regrets as beautiful as it is.
I'm constantly seeing people on the internet warn about wisteria. Wisteria is not at all invasive here.
 
s. ayalp
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Location: istanbul - turkey
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I call it comfrey of the night. Not for dynamic accumulator properties (did't know about that till now, one more reason to plant more!!) but because it causes fewer like comfrey! You jusy want more. It is so easy to grow and covers bad sights quickly. It grows in all kinds of soil and even in cracks =D

It does not produce much biomass though and I don't think they atract beneficials significantly (Just an observation). Moths prefer it.
 
Jane Southall
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Todd, there is children's book writer named Todd Parr.  Yes, Todd and Judith I worry too much about everything, in that regard.  Comfrey of the night, love that.  Yes, the hawk moth.  The tomato horn worm.  I have potato greens for the horn worm so I can have the hawk moth.  Hummingbirds seem to like the 4 o'clock.  Thanks, everyone.
 
Jane Southall
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I forgot, Judith.  Yes, part sun.  The seem to like open woods dappled sun best.  Mine in full sun aren't fairing well.  I am torn on Wisteria. 
 
Stacy Witscher
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Interesting, they thrive in full sun here, but our weather is generally mild. And ours seem to produce a lot of bio-mass. The neighbors are currently 3-4 feet tall, and each plant can easily get 2-3 across.
 
Judith Browning
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Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Stacy Witscher wrote:Interesting, they thrive in full sun here, but our weather is generally mild. And ours seem to produce a lot of bio-mass. The neighbors are currently 3-4 feet tall, and each plant can easily get 2-3 across.


I've seen them that large here too...almost a shrub.  I thought I was told they like some shade at the plant exchange where I got them.  It's likely I misremembered as I traded for a lot of plants that day. Maybe I'll plant one pot of them in the shade and one in the sun and see how it goes.
 
wayne fajkus
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They were in front of my house full sun and back of house thats shaded most of day.
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 6039
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Jane, now that I've read the information in the link you posted I am excited about growing them as a possible dye source...I'm not sure which color my flowers are though. 

One utility of the plant that I would like to investigate further is its use as a dye. According to an eastern Indian article titled Dye yielding plants of Assam for dyeing handloom textile products from The Indian Journal of Traditional Knowledge (9) a red dye can be made from boiling a paste of the flowers for coloring cotton. The flowers are spectacular and in a variety of colors; red, pink, striped, bi-colored and white are what we have found in our yard. If wehttps://permies.com/forums/posts/reply/0/69503 could use the red and pink colors for dye we would be in luck for fabrics or, if truly edible, for coloring eggs at Easter.
 
Todd Parr
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Location: Wisconsin, zone 4
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Jane Southall wrote:Todd, there is children's book writer named Todd Parr.  Yes, Todd and Judith I worry too much about everything, in that regard. 


Regrettably, that is a different Todd Parr

I think people stress themselves unnecessarily about these things.  If a plant has a million uses, super, I'll plant it.  If the only use it seems to have is that I like it, that is good enough for me. 
 
Jane Southall
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Location: Limestone, TN
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Judith, I see you are in Ozarks.  Love Ozarks.  You are same zone as I.  If you put in full sun, I would give a ton of mulch.  All my full sun ones get wilty and grow slowly.  So am piling on the mulch to see it that helps.  So many plants are dye worthy.  I grow ajuga and that's a dye plant, just learned.  I have hot pink that have grown for years  and some tie dye kinda mixed color that came with property.  I didn't think you were that Todd, honestly.  I have 5 kids and readily comes to mind.
 
Judith Browning
Posts: 6039
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
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Jane Southall wrote:Judith, I see you are in Ozarks.  Love Ozarks.  You are same zone as I.  If you put in full sun, I would give a ton of mulch.  All my full sun ones get wilty and grow slowly.  So am piling on the mulch to see it that helps.  So many plants are dye worthy.  I grow ajuga and that's a dye plant, just learned.  I have hot pink that have grown for years  and some tie dye kinda mixed color that came with property.  I didn't think you were that Todd, honestly.  I have 5 kids and readily comes to mind.


That's good to know.  I'm working on fruit trees in all of our full sun areas just to tone down this ozark sun...nothing likes 'full sun' anymore, I'm afraid.  We've always mulched and usually with grass clippings and oak leaves on our old forty acres.  Now here on the edge of town I'm buying some good wheat and rye straw and mulching heavily with that and pine needles from some trees we took out. 

This has me anxious to plant my four oclocks...I'm waiting until September though.  A friend here, who is an herbalist and organic gardener says  to transplant in the months with an 'r' in their name.  Sounded good to me...that way avoiding May, June, July and August. 
 
Jane Southall
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Thank you, for saying that.  The sun is too much even for full sun plants.  Putting fruit trees in sunniest spots, as well.  I am full on embracing the forest garden.  Whatever the cause of changing climate, this is the way to go, in the south anyway.  I am from Arkansas.  Hope, Russellville, Hot Springs.  The R's.  Will remember that.  Give them wind protection.  I have so many "limbs"  broken from wind storms.  Another reason, I mulch. 
 
Annie Lochte
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Location: The Ocala National Forest. Florida, USA
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I like my 4 o'clocks. They will get to the invasive level but I like um enough to keep them around... Just wish I had some yellow and white and multi colored ones... Had those colors at other places I lived and brought seed here for those colors a few times but the pink, purple, magenta color is all I have here... Other than the insects and hummingbirds, an they're pretty, I don't have any particular use for them. They don't do well in the full sun here... And I like the fact that once their done and I hack them down they dry out and dis assemble at every joint and decay fairly quick....
 
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