• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
stewards:
  • Burra Maluca
  • Miles Flansburg
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Dave Burton
  • Anne Miller
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mark Tudor
  • Pearl Sutton

Article on Baking Soda as Cancer treatment booster  RSS feed

 
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
To be completely clear, I am not a doctor, and am not advocating anything.

I happened across this article that talks about how the effect of certain chemo treatments are made more effective by ingesting baking soda.

I have recently been taking a half teaspoon of baking soda myself every morning for a specific chronic, non-life-threatening, inflammation-related condition, and I have noticed a drastic reduction in symptoms. I will try to find the first article I read on this topic that inspired this experiment, one that focused on baking soda's potential to reduce excessive immune reaction to reduce inflammation-related health problems by reprogramming the spleen, I think it was.

But this one is a new one on me. Any thoughts?

-CK
 
master steward
Posts: 6284
Location: Pacific Northwest
1897
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My husband ran across that article, too, and is thinking of supplementing with it for his Crohn's. He used to use it when he'd get leg cramps, but it often gave him the runs.  Diarrhea/urgent stools might be a side effect for some--best to try it out on a day off!
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 6284
Location: Pacific Northwest
1897
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I will try to find the first article I read on this topic that inspired this experiment, one that focused on baking soda's potential to reduce excessive immune reaction to reduce inflammation-related health problems by reprogramming the spleen, I think it was.



Was this it? Drinking baking soda could be an inexpensive, safe way to combat autoimmune disease
 
gardener
Posts: 2307
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
285
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Chris.  

Your link doesn't link.

Thoughts:  From what I understand, the baking soda forces a high alkaline situation in the digestive tract.  And an alkaline digestive tract, in certain circles, is promoted as something that is particularly good in helping the body to heal.  I have a friend that gargles baking soda water if she feels she is coming down with an illness, and is often in fairly decent health.  

He used to use it when he'd get leg cramps, but it often gave him the runs.  Diarrhea/urgent stools might be a side effect for some


I think that reducing the amount of soda one is intaking will decrease the likelihood of loose bowels.  The quantity could be slowly increased over time, but start off smaller.  

Another potential side effect of using baking soda regularly, from what I have heard, is an inability to assimilate certain vitamin B's (Riboflavin and Thiamin I think).

Further thoughts: Much of the Raw Foodist movement promotes the use of raw fruits, herbs, and veg, partly because of the alkalinity that these foods embody and create in the body.  Some non-believers/non-subscribers to this point of view, however, argue that regardless of what one eats, the body will add the alkalinity or acid to reach the right homeostasis for bodily functioning.  The Alkalin school of thought counters this with the fact that that is an unnecessary and costly energy drain that should or could be used for the body to heal.    
 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Shoot. I will try to find the first one again.

The mechanism I recall was described simply as neutralizing some stomach acids, prompting more acid to be created, which, over time, would increase the body's ability to break down the partially broken-down proteins that trigger an immune response that presents as an allergic reaction.

There was also mention of the surface of the spleen being altered (smoothed, I think) to reduce the sensitivity of the autoimmune system enough to calm overactivity responsible for inflammation.

And yes, Nicole, if it wasn't exactly the same one, it certainly contains the same information.  I think I might have been reading the white paper.

-CK
 
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The human body likes to be slightly basic, most of the pre-prepared foods are acidic, soda pop is acidic as are most other "soft" drinks, energy drinks are a double whammy with super high caffeine and super high sugar contents as well as being acidic.

Wolf's cancer has given me the opportunity to delve deeply into what the human body really needs to operate at it's best and this has led us to change our diet quite a bit.
We drink Icelandic, glacial water, pH of 8.4 or 8.8, this helps to reduce any acidity that we might ingest during the day.
We only eat heirloom vegetables, testing these with the pH meter showed that they lean less into acidity than the modern cultivars, and they have better flavors.
We do not eat chain store fast food, in fact there are only 3-4 eateries we go to if we eat out, that's because the rest of them we tried hurt our bodies (we could feel it within 20 minutes of eating).
We know were our meats come from, we only buy milk from one dairy (a friends).

The differences in how we both feel and our mobility, blood pressure, etc., have improved (almost immediately) greatly.
Wolf is stable, even though she has now been on chemo for 2.5 years.

Redhawk

 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hau, kola Redhawk. Would adding baking soda to filtered or distilled water to adjust the pH be an acceptable work-around for those of us unable or unwilling to source the Icelandic alkaline type?

-CK

EDIT: I have fixed the link in my first post.
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I can't think of any reason that Baking soda wouldn't work.
I would think that you wouldn't want to go extremely alkaline though since you are going to drink around 2 liters or more a day.

Probably something like a half tea spoon per liter and you might be fine going up to a half tablespoon per liter.
In my case, I'd use the pH meter and test several different concentrations to find that happy median.
Stomach acid is right in the 12 molar range so you can tolerate something in the range of 8.8 to 9.0 for drinking water I would think.
That would be something to check with a M.D..

*I don't like distilled water for drinking, I prefer some mineralization in my water for taste.
 
Posts: 171
Location: Huntsville Alabama (North Alabama)
9
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have been using Turkey Tail, Shiitake and Reishi mushroom tinctures, 2ml a couple times a week, after finding so much research about the fungi's capability to improve immunity and reduce inflammation.  

I use Lion's Mane tincture, 5 to 8 ml nightly, to help with sleep and also because it is a known nootropic.  

I may now include low doses  of baking soda as a preventative measure and to boost overall health.  

I am avoiding pharmaceuticals and prefer the natural path to healing.
 
Roberto pokachinni
gardener
Posts: 2307
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
285
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

We drink Icelandic, glacial water, pH of 8.4 or 8.8, this helps to reduce any acidity that we might ingest during the day.  

I imagine that this water is highly mineralized.  

I don't like distilled water for drinking, I prefer some mineralization in my water for taste.  

 I agree that that is best.

Probably something like a half tea spoon per liter and you might be fine going up to a half tablespoon per liter.  

I would start with even less, but that's probably because I find baking soda to have a pretty strong and somewhat unpleasant taste.  

I'm not sure, but adding sea salt to water in small concentrations/weak solutions, might have the same beneficial effect, with the added bonus of having a proper mineral balance.  Sea water has a similar mineral composition to humans with nearly the same specific gravity as human blood.  

I would think that baking soda, on the other hand, while alkaline, is liable to create a mineral imbalance over time, which is potentially harmful.  Without the balance of minerals that say Bryant's Icelandic water has, the baking soda will cause the body to absorb too much of sodium for instance, and this might inhibit the way the body deals with (and I'm making this up now) iron, or copper, or zinc, or magnesium, or even a vitamin or essential fatty acid.  This might not be apparent in the short term, particularly with trace minerals.

I think of this as potentially similar to how potentially harmful it is to use 20 20 20 fertilizer in your garden.  Sure, you will notice a great boost in growth, but this is at a cost to the imbalance that the over concentration of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorous in relation to other and especially trace elements, not to mention what it does to the micro community, particularly over time.  
 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What is the pH of seawater, Roberto? What reasons do you have to think that it might have any bearing on inflammation, allergenicity, immune response, or spleen function?

I am not coming up with this myself. There's much more information in both linked articles.

But seeing as how baking soda is just sodium bicarbonate, why would there be any reason to think it would cause mineral imbalance, especially if it's taken with properly mineralised water?

Incidentally, I don't worry about specific NPK ratios in the soil, to a point, as long as I have thriving soil life with a decent fungal to bacterial balance.

-CK
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Excellent points Roberto,  Several years ago I found Sea-90 and started using it around our orchard trees, in the gardens, filled our salt grinder with it and I mixed 1/4 tea spoon into a liter bottle of water to drink.
Now I add 1/16th teaspoon (had to make the measuring spoon myself out of some plate silver) of sea-90 to my glacial water (the Icelandic glacial water doesn't have many minerals listed so why not add the 95 minerals found in sea-90).

The great thing about using non-purified sea salt is that the minerals are salts so they are easy for our bodies to make use of. Which means we can be sure we are getting all the trace elements we need to be healthy.
While Salt water from the sea is not for us to drink (far to high concentrations, which is why drinking sea water can kill you through severe dehydration and vomiting) highly diluted sea water can be drunk in small amounts with healthful benefits.
Just as using sea salt on your soil, when done in small quantities actually benefits the soil and microbiome organisms because of the minerals contained in the sea salt.

Baking soda is easy to find in stores, is usually quite pure and as long as you don't drink it mixed in all the water you consume, I can't derive any detrimental effects coming from its use.
But just about anything can be abused, so the trick is to use the brain first to think things through as thoroughly as possible.

The way I look at these sorts of things is through the "all things in moderation" code. Using that code and making sure you have educated yourself on every aspect of what you are going to try out, usually will keep you from self harm.

Redhawk
 
Roberto pokachinni
gardener
Posts: 2307
Location: Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
285
bike books food preservation forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for your encouraging words, Bryant.

Hi Chris

What is the pH of seawater, Roberto?

 The concentrations of salt in seawater vary globally, the average being 35grams of salt per Kg of water.  I don't know what it's PH is, but it is certainly alkaline, but varying, as noted.  Many people do take sea salt in their water as a mineral supplement, and to alkalize otherwise neutral or acid water.  Whether it has been studied to address those specific ailments I can not make any claim to know.  What I do know is that a proper balance of trace minerals is required to meet our dietary needs, and that too much of any one element, or the lack of certain elements in adequate levels in conjunction with an over abundance of others will wreak havoc on the absorption of others over time.  I wasn't speaking of worrying about NPK ratios in the soil, per se, but of using 20 20 20 fertilizer over an extended period of time, and it's relationship to the other elements, particularly trace elements, and to the possible detriment of the microbiome; sorry if that wasn't clear in the last post.  
 
Posts: 512
Location: Northern Germany (Zone 8a)
21
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
what about "stone salt"? I m not sure how you call it, but it is a mineral salt from ancient seas which dried up. So it s from seas that are not polluted.

I like epsom salt baths and washing with a cloth and an epsom salt solution (air dry the skin, no toweling). I read that the body will dump excess acid into the basic water/Mineral-deposits through the skin.
For drinking water, I like to add a solution of Magnesium Chloride (Zechsteiner Salt or something). And I sometimes use some food grade clay powder in drinking water.
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Roberto pokachinni wrote:   I wasn't speaking of worrying about NPK ratios in the soil, per se, but of using 20 20 20 fertilizer over an extended period of time, and it's relationship to the other elements, particularly trace elements, and to the possible detriment of the microbiome; sorry if that wasn't clear in the last post.  




20/20/20 fertilizer is like the McDonalds big mac, it taste good but if you over do it on eating them the pounds will show.

Commercial fertilizers really don't have a good place anywhere, they load the soil with equal NPK and that is very detrimental to the soil microorganisms that process the natural minerals, the bacteria aren't called on by the plants so they get lazy or go dormant.
So what happens is that the NPK are the only nutrients available, plant leaves and stems show the disparity and then people use another chemical quick fix to bring those nutrients up to par, which causes more dormancy by the soil organisms.
The spiral continues as the human continues to think that they need to add things to the soil for the plants, that nature doesn't provide.
What these "well meaning" people do is kill their soil organisms and create dirt where once there was soil.

Redhawk
 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was, perhaps, a little unclear.

Roberto, are you suggesting that it's the alkalinity itself that is the cause of the biochemical changes in the body that both boost the effects of certain cancer treatments and are conducive to less overall inflammation, as well as affecting the immune response such that allergic over-reactions become less pronounced, and in fact, stop?

I currently use a little sea salt in water to replenish my electrolytes after heavy exertion, if I am sweating it out a lot. Now I know that many chefs go to kosher salt as a default because the specificity of the strictures, and the huge magnifying glass that the kosher industry is constantly under, tends to result in a cleaner, healthier-sourced product. But, as asked earlier, what of mined salt from the beds of ancient seas?

Also, if mined salt is preferable, lacking plastic particulates and other modern pollutants, are there any varieties that are preferable, or any that may instead be detrimental for any reason?

Or would the choice of salt depend on the minerality of the water you drink?

I would like to know what the mechanism is. I don't mind drinking a quarter teaspoon of baking soda in water if it is what's responsible for my decreased allergenicity and inflammation, but if I can do it with sea salt, instead, as part of a more holistic remineralisation, I wouldn't mind that either.

I just want to know why these articles are talking about baking soda instead of sea salt.

-CK
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hau Chris, let me share some of what I've found out over the last 2 years on this subject.

We have found that when I can get my wife's body pH in the range of 7.2 -7.5 her counts go down week to week while on chemo, she also has less trouble with her body handling the side effects of the chemo treatments.
This is mostly because of her ability to utilize more of the nutrients she puts into her body, which also has the effect of reducing inflammation.

sea salt normally doesn't have extra iodine added to it, the iodine is already there unless the salt is purified. Chef's use kosher salt because it is purified but non iodized and the crystals are larger, thus easier to see and measure by eye. (this is according to my wife who is a registered chef)

Mined salt is generally quite similar to freshly evaporated sea salt, most of it is from long evaporated seas that were then covered by sediments after being lifted from the ocean floor by tectonic plate activity.

I think most of the baking soda articles are currently being published, baking soda is an easy way to add alkalinity to the human body, it is also relatively inexpensive.

Sea water varies in alkalinity just as it varies in mineral content by: 1. where in the water column the sample comes from, 2. where in the ocean (distance from shore line) the sample is taken.
Surface water tends to be less alkaline than deeper water.

Redhawk
 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 2068
Location: Toronto, Ontario
158
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks, kola Redhawk.

One of the more in-depth articles focusing on Baking soda's effect on cancer treatment indicated that what the alkalinity was doing was preventing cancer cells from going into an oxygen-deprived state, where they go dormant and are essentially safe from cancer treatments. So the alkalinity keeps them active, detectable, and more vulnerable to chemo than otherwise.

The increased bioavailability of minerals, I imagine, would have a drastic effect on the recovery of healthy cells in the body.

So if one were to use both sea salt and baking soda, in what quantities per litre of water would you use them?

-CK
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If I was going to use both sea salt and Baking soda together I would be getting out my balance for accurate weights and use 2 gm of each to a Liter of water.
From that point I would write down how I felt over a seven day period, and from that data I would start making small .5 gm adjustments and repeat the data collecting 7 day period.
If you can take BP, pulse rate and temperature, along with written descriptions of what your body tells you, you should have enough data to make fair assumptions on adding to or taking away from the solution your drinking.

If you find that your sliding backwards, then it is time to reduce quantities back to the last one that had you feeling better.

Cancer cells are tricky buggers, they can imitate good, healthy cells and they can mask their true identity to the killer cells our bodies produce.
Cancer cells also modify the vascular cell wall structures so they receive more nutrients than the healthy cells around them.
When the body is at a slightly basic pH the body's T-cells function at an enhanced rate and the RNA seems to be able to help the killer cells identify the cancer cells so they are attacked even though they are trying to slip by with chemical signals.
The body also metabolizes more nutrients when the body is at a slightly basic pH.

I can't understand the notion that cancer cells would go into an oxygen deprived state, that is counter intuitive to all the studies I've ever read.
Perhaps that is from one of the wishful thinking folks writing about cancer but not actually doing any real research, or maybe they were talking about one particular type of cancer cell, I don't know.

Redhawk
 
Dennis Bangham
Posts: 171
Location: Huntsville Alabama (North Alabama)
9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Dr. Redhawk.  Do you drink the liter of mineralized water in one day or over the whole week?
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 5084
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
617
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I use that water for hydration when I am out working on the farm, our current temps are in the 90-100 range at 60% humidity average, so I go through two liters in a full day.
 
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!