community without plastic/machines/toxins?

Dear permies—

I would love to find a community (probably more like eco-village, as I prefer a private land space within the larger space) that draws some boundaries around not having toxic things. Similar to Paul’s huspa.

I have searched IC.org. I have searched here. And so many communities seem to use a lot of plastic and toxic things like PVC.  

Personally I have chosen to eliminate plastic and toxin-emitting machines, and I would love to live close to others who similarly chose to live without these materials.

I have a visions of a place with all earth houses (cob, wattle and daub, wofati, etc) and solutions to irrigation that don’t involve hoses and PVC. I think it’s possible. It’s been done in the past in human history.

There is a community in Wales that comes close. It’s all little cob houses, and they each have maybe 6 acres if I remember correctly. But they rarely if ever have openings.

Eco-village Gaia in Argentina also comes close, with cob and earth brick houses.

Does anyone have any leads? I’m open to anywhere in the world.

I am at the point of just trying to find my own land, but wanted to ask the permies community just in case anyone knows of other places that exist.

Many thanks!

I would think that it would hard to find such a place unless you are going back to carrying all your water daily, almost all water piping is done with PVC pipe these days.
Copper would be better but it has gone to the wayside because of the cost of the pipe, fittings and solder.

Bryant RedHawk wrote:I would think that it would hard to find such a place unless you are going back to carrying all your water daily, almost all water piping is done with PVC pipe these days.
Copper would be better but it has gone to the wayside because of the cost of the pipe, fittings and solder.

What about iron pipes? Vitrified clay? Or all the ways people have irrigated since before PVC?

Hi Cayo,

Perhaps you'll find it in India.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Sikkim-becomes-India%E2%80%99s-first-organic-state/article13999445.ece

Pesticides are a good starting point. Plastic will probably follow elsewhere in the world in due course. It's all getting a bit mad - but we're seeing the madness now where we didn't before, and people are growing out of our enchantment with big business stories.

All the best in your searches.

Interesting what kola Redhawk mentions about copper pipe. Here in NZ there is lots of copper plumbing that is not soldered, but brazed (practically welded) together. No one uses sweat soldering techniques or fittings here...it's all brazed and all the plumbers are familiar with the technique.

So you could certainly do water lines without plastic, and avoid lead at the same time. Silver solder is also an option but is trick to use.

bamboo/ holo reeds?

I would imagine it hard to find a "modern people" who would eliminate plastic or machines altogether.  Ther are the Amish, a few native American tribes. I know its possible to return to primitive simple living and live well if we can part from our modern way of thinking and reasoning and lust.

Not many people like hard work.  Machines can cut work my years if you work by your self.  I'm not sure if you are referring to only living without toxin-emitting machinery or building without out it...

I have lived a primitive life when I went to the campo in South America.  Every cup of water was precious because of the half mile walk to the spring. It was a very clean life close to nature and I actually enjoyed it immensely once I adapted. We constructed a brick tower and put a water tank on top and a small pump on the spring and piped the water up to the tank,  This gave them running water for the first time.  Their joy was so great and they immediately began wasting water.. The women spent so much time hauling water and believed they expressed many reasons why life was then better.  I would agree after living a primitive life for a while some technology is good for a quality life if you any desire beyond being in nature.  Every human invention comes with damaging effects to nature are always abused and used to live in unnatural ways.  I think machinery can definitely be constructed to be responsible and appropriate.  I guess that's the key. Using technology when its appropriate and add to the value of a life and does not take from another life. Using cordless tools charged with solar energy is very doable.  Of course, the pollution is just let loose upwind from someone else at a different location..

I could see building a large rain catchment and ferrocement storage tanks where you could dip your water out with a bucket or jar from a well inside a house made of raw earth.  There are quite a few communities who build natural houses. Im sure they will turn up for you.  I have never kept a list when I discovered one.

If you cannot find what you seek perhaps you should start a community?

I am going to be building a wattle and daub double wall structure with 18 inches of loose packed straw/weed insulation next spring.  It should be cheap, non-toxic, super efficient and beautiful as well as highly functional with thermal mass & insulation.  Using passive and active (machine) methods to keep it comfortable in a harsh climate.  I should hold a workshop..  I battle with going fully passive and using earth to moderate the temperatures my adjusting what I will tolerate, but then I love to wear comfortable clothes year around and feel good indoors.  In this climate, it's just not possible to stay comfortable without some machinery. I suppose I could live in a screen hut during the summer and jump in the pond every couple of hours.. Its a balance of personal choice, expectations, and how much of a purest we want to be. Most people are fine with pollution as long as its in someone else's air. Some feel there should be none.  As long as money is the measure of value in the world someone's poison is always going to be in our lives. I totally agree with you on eliminating every toxin we can.  I distill my drinking water because the groundwater tested as having poison from a golf course and a fracked oil well changed to water to acidic where it dissolves lead out of coal in the ground. Our water only touches glass after coming out of the machine. I want to build a detox retreat that operates on donations and gifts where people can vacation and detox from it all in a clean environment; magnetically, dietary, water, and breathe clean plant purified air, and healthy ideas.

EVERYTHING is toxic...in high enough quantities.  Even pure water, even pure oxygen.

Just because something is natural, doesn't make it safe (cyanide is natural, arsenic is natural, etc.)

Just because something is man-made, doesn't mean it's bad.

I think Paul Wheaton hopes/plans to make part of his land into a Purity/HUSP community.  At least I hope so - I would love to see it happen!  https://permies.com/t/9121/Horticulture-United-States-Pocahontas-husp

Perhaps he needs some people to express enough interest in this concept to actually move to his land and make it happen!

You may want to consider rural areas, at least I guess?

Toxic
Clothes/Shoes - plastic ryan/spandex/polyesters/etc
Mattress -plastic sponge/foam
Plywood/Remanufactored Lumber - plastic 'glue'
Furniture - plastic glue, plywood, plastic foam, plastic fabric, etc
Walls/House - plastic vapor barrier, plastic insulation, 'plastic plywood', arsenic treated lumber, plastic paint/siding
Caps for jars/bottles are plastic lined or made entirely out of plastic.
Bottles/Jars - made from plastic
Appliances/Tools - plastic paint, plastic barriers, plastic parts
Food - plastic warped, pesticides, crude oil shipped/prepared/preserved
Water - plastic piped and plastic filtered
Energy Systems - plastic lined electrical wires, crude oil fuels, toxic batteries, toxic mining, etc.
Transit - plastic new car smell from fabrics, foam, plastic molded parts, combustion chamber

Ferrocement House/Wall/Roof/Cistern
Non-Leaded water pipes
Wood Heating
No computers/phone/Amazon deliveries
Hand made furniture from lumber
Hammock for bed/rice hull mattress/+sofa seats
Clay/Wooden Utensils
Plants dont really need watering

This seems so hard to do just for me much less to fine a group of people to join.