the old permaculture bootcamp thread

Camping out by myself does seem like a solid plan, thanks for the idea Mike.
Hopefully you're right that you'll all be over it in three days or so. I will keep my bags packed and be ready to leave on short notice when I hear all of you are recovered. Hopefully a federal quarantine will not be in place by then!
I think that's the safest plan of action right now considering how likely you believe it is to be coronavirus.

Update:  everybody is feeling (and looking) better today.  We're not out of the woods yet, but things might be back to normal in two days.  

We talked today about being better in a few days (or weeks?) and what will be our policy in regards to coronavirus.   We decided to open our doors because it will have come and gone.  People coming here with it won't be a danger to us.  People coming here that don't have it will not get it from us.

But the first step is that we need to get all better.   More news when we're ready.

I'm glad to hear you guys are on the mend. Unfortunately, Michigan isn't fairing so well, we've been placed on a three week quarantine. I think it's best I respect that and not travel until it's lifted, so I guess I'll wait three weeks and reassess. On the bright side, that should give all of you time to recover fully.

Everybody is doing better today.  Not all better.   We talked and we are prepared to say that we are "80% better."   This stuff is persistent.  

We are guessing that we will all be back to normal in two or three days.  Maybe even tomorrow.  

paul wheaton wrote:Everybody is doing better today.  Not all better.   We talked and we are prepared to say that we are "80% better."   This stuff is persistent.  

We are guessing that we will all be back to normal in two or three days.  Maybe even tomorrow.  

Paul, could you or the other provide a more detailed timeline of symptoms, temperatures, etc over the last few weeks? It could be useful for everyone trying to make sense of all this.

Also, has anyone revisited getting tested? They are saying more tests are being deployed.

I feel like I shared a lot of details here.

Overall, I now think the tests are stupid.  If 1000 people have a match for the symptoms, clearly they have something.   And if we only test 50 and out of those 50 only 3 people are positive, then I think that is pretty fucked up.   1000 people are sick but we say only 3 people have coronavirus?   I think there is too much politics and the test is too limiting.  

We have six people and six stories.  And the symptoms match.  

We have all talked about probabilities, and maybes and what ifs for far, far, far, far, far, far too long.  Gack.  We're moving on.  We believe that we had coronavirus and that we are now immune.   And within a few days, there will be no more coronavirus here.  

If somebody wants to come here, we're cool with that.   Right now, people are still going to grocery stores and all sorts of stuff.  I think that if people come here, there will be a 90% reduction of spreading coronavirus.  So it is better to come here than continue to interact wherever you are.

Oh yes, there is about 5000 hours of discussion that can happen at this point, complete with new data to consider with each passing hour.  I'm going to leave all that discussion to people that are still interested in having that discussion.   We have made our decision.  

The doors to the permaculture bootcamp are now open.

The test for coronavirus has a large percentage of false negatives. Something like 30%-50%. There are people at the hospital on ventilators and all the same symptoms, and they are "negative." So, it seems plausible that with the people at Wheaton Labs all having coughs, shortness of breath, and all their other icky symptoms, that they got it.

We have six people and six stories.  And the symptoms match

I read the thread but saw scant detailed description of symptoms you all were/are experiencing, specifically did anyone experience and for how long a “persistent dry cough”, high fevers or the “loss of sense of taste or smell” that are known to be symptoms specific to the covid-19 virus. If by what you mean is that six people in close quarters share the same symptoms of an illness is not at all unusual. They say an easy swab test that can reveal exposure to the virus will become available through folks primary physicians that can give results in 15 minutes will be available soon so that anyone believe it they had “the” virus, as opposed to a different virus will be able to know for sure.

Fred had it the worst.  Lots and lots of dry cough.  Fevers coming and going for fred, josiah and jennifer.   Those three plus me experiencing shortness of breath and trying to actively breathe more.  

As I said.  We have been over it and over it and over it for dozens of hours.   Unless you seriously think we are far too stupid to draw a decent conclusion, and you are a physician with expertise in this space, then ... I have pointed out that I am very done talking about symptoms and what ifs and the like.  We are excited to be getting back into the projects.

James, are you considering coming to the bootcamp in the next two weeks?

No, not going anywhere soon. But thanks for the additional info, sometimes in these threads it can get difficult to follow details and I saw no mention of cough on the recent pages. Glad you all are getting better!

Just paid the Boot fee.  Would have paid sooner after receiving Paul's Daily-ish this past Monday, however I had already paid April rent here and have been waiting to find out if that can be returned.  Long shot that didn't fly, though it seemed prudent to ask :.)

If Paul's scheduled work stuff allows someone to pick me up, I will pay $50 + meal (breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner - whichever is most convenient) + fill a gas/fuel tank.  I'd rather pay a Boot before someone local here :.)  Not much to bring.  Will easily fit in a small back seat.

Catherine Windrose wrote:Just paid the Boot fee.  Would have paid sooner after receiving Paul's Daily-ish this past Monday, however I had already paid April rent here and have been waiting to find out if that can be returned.  Long shot that didn't fly, though it seemed prudent to ask :.)

If Paul's scheduled work stuff allows someone to pick me up, I will pay $50 + meal (breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner - whichever is most convenient) + fill a gas/fuel tank.  I'd rather pay a Boot before someone local here :.)  Not much to bring.  Will easily fit in a small back seat.

I sent you an email and cc'd our peeps to arrange a ride.

Two new boots!  One already had coronavirus and the one that has not has decided that we are past it.  

I put in a full day's work - although I took it slow.  Josiah put in a full day yesterday and today.  Jennifer put in a full day today.   Fred didn't work today - but that was just to be safe.  He is now getting a strong case of cabin fever.  

A question from my email:

I have a well behaved dog. She is a six year old kelpie (Aussie cattle dog), about 50 pounds, trained to come on command etc. Would I be able to bring her? From what I’ve read you are OK with pets on a situation by situation basis so I wanted to check.

I thought I would direct this person to the part of the thread where we answered that question, but ...   wow, we have not talked about dogs here in a very long time!

We have had people here with dogs and it has been great.   And we have had people here with dogs and it has been problematic.   One beagle got taken by a mountain lion (we think).  

One guy asked when Jocelyn was having mixed luck with tempting a feral cat to be around.  We told the guy about our concerns about the dog chasing off the cat and he said "it won't happen."  It happened within the first 60 seconds.  Fortunately, the cat came back six months later.

I think this thread still stands:

https://permies.com/t/100667/permaculture-projects/dogs-wheaton-labs

Having a dog here is super cool if the dog is super cool!  But it is a problem if your dog is a problem.  So I guess the best answer is "it depends."

Hey folks I just signed up to be a Boot and just wanted to introduce myself. I can’t wait to get up there, meet y’all and get to work!

My ETA is most likely this weekend. I’ll be driving  through Spokane, if anyone needs supplies or a ride let me know.

See you soon. Take care and be well

E.J. Callanan wrote: I’ll be driving  through Spokane, if anyone needs supplies or a ride let me know.

If you want snacks, coffee, meaty bits or other fun things to augment the staples we provide here, I suggest you stop at pilgrim's market in core-duh-lane on your way here.  

I just checked with everybody and it sounds like we're gonna be all set.  

See you soon!

We all posed for a group photo today. It feels really good to have some new people joining the project. We are starting this spring off strong with lots of good forward momentum :)

That's everybody that's here right now.  

And I'm holding my dibble and a jar of sepp holzer grain.  We planted some right after the pic.

Is that Catherine Windrose that I spy? If so, it's so cool to see that you were able to make it to boot camp!!!

This morning we are going to work on the permaculture design for allerton abbey.  This year's primary mission is "gertitude" at the abbey:   to make a one acre permaculture paradise.

How many spots are available?

Jonathan Mayer wrote:How many spots are available?

Currently, 2.

Sounds like you're all healthy over there, glad you all recovered without complications!

Michigan is still under lock down but I haven't gotten it, I don't think my areas been hit very hard yet. I'm still considering coming out but I'm wondering how it would be handled if I or another boot came down with the virus after I arrived? I certainly understand if you guys don't wanna put up a sick person you hardly know for two weeks, but driving home could be problematic depending how sick I got and how fast it came on.

Also, worst case, how long a drive is it to the nearest hospital? Not sure how isolated you guys are.

Missoula is less than an hour away.

Fred, Jen and Josiah have all been here a long time.  So they got it and I kept feeding them while they were sick.  

Orin arrived just as we were getting sick.   He stuck with us.   And I figured he would get it about a week in and then the rest of us would be caring for him.  

I signed up for the permaculture bootcamp back in fall of 2019 and was planning on coming out in early spring, and well life, and Covid-19 happened. I need to get back in contact with whoever runs the bootcamp. I'm ready to come and work and learn. Please help!

Hi Scott!

I found where you filled out the questionnaire last fall.  It looks like you would drive here.  When do you think you might arrive?

It's looking like I can be there within a couple weeks. Just need to get a few things squared away. I'm so excited! Y'all are doing the lords work.

When you have a better idea of when you'll be here, you can post to this thread or use the boot email.   We'll get it all sorted out.

Ok i'm looking at an arrival date of May 2, 2020. See y'all soon.

Scott Sanders wrote:Ok i'm looking at an arrival date of May 2, 2020. See y'all soon.

Now in our calendar.  

I get asked a lot about whether we still have two spots open.  The short answer is "yes, we still have two spots open".

We used to do this based on the number of people who say they are coming and for how long they will be here - but a lot of people didn't show up or had plans change or whatever.  Now we do it based on the number of people that are actually here.  Plus, we have talked about two additional factors:

  - if we hit capacity but we told somebody we had openings, and they set a date to come out in the next few weeks, then we add them in.  

  - We have two boots that have been here nearly a year.  And those two have shown aptitude for leadership.  So we are exploring the idea of being able to  accept even more boots.   More news on this front when we know more.

Any way you look at it, I think it is fair to say



    "yes, we still have two spots open"

Paid the boot fee.
Ready for the questionnaire.

Will have listened to the first 200 podcasts soon.
Just a few items to finish up before hitting the road.
Arrival goal: 2nd week in May.

-Boon

Boon Safty wrote:Paid the boot fee.
Ready for the questionnaire.

Will have listened to the first 200 podcasts soon.
Just a few items to finish up before hitting the road.
Arrival goal: 2nd week in May.

-Boon

Questionnaire sent.  

I am looking at my records ...   did you pay twice?

I was just planning to pay my fee today, was going to arrive May 3rd. Any chance you have room for one more?

Clayton High wrote:I was just planning to pay my fee today, was going to arrive May 3rd. Any chance you have room for one more?

Do it and we will see you on the third.

Great, thanks. See you in a week

To see the most recent pics and video, three of our current boots are posting pics and video nearly every day:

Jennifer has been here since last spring/summer:
https://permies.com/t/70/120233/jen-boot-camp


Josiah arrived a few days later:
https://permies.com/t/123050/permaculture-projects/Josiah-Bootcamp-Log

Orin has been here a couple of months:
https://permies.com/t/30/136523/permaculture-projects/Orin-Boot-Camp-Pictorials