Help - really? Do you mean it?

​​​​​Is it just me, or do other people feel that asking, "Do you want some help?" is often a close relative to "the little white lie" - something people say to feel good about themselves, when they really have no desire to help, will disappear from the job as quickly as possible, or worse, actually sabotage the job, making more work for the person they offered their time and effort to?

Is that version of "Do you want some help?" specific to when there's a nasty or yucky problem afoot, and they're trying to make the doer feel less alone with the problem without actually having to cope with it themselves? After all, "want" is a feeling word, not a doing word and puts every bit of onus on the receiver.

How about, "What can I do to help?" This takes the emotion out and is what in communications terms is an "I" statement. To me, it seems more genuine that the asker is putting money in the game, not just platitudes. However, if the receiver is overwhelmed, this question still adds one more task to the receiver's plate - she not only has to keep herself organized, she has to organize her helper as well. That also means that the receiver is taking all the responsibility.

Have my fellow permies ever considered asking an overworked or overwhelmed person, "Can I help by doing "X"? As a simple example, ask a busy hostess, "Can I help by washing up these dishes?"  Now a reply as simple as yes or no can be given. Now the parameters of the offer of help have been given clearly, so there is less risk of either party feeling as if the expectation isn't reasonable.

Can people think of experiences they've had where this concept applied?

I guess the situation you describe is an example of virtue signalling. "I'm a good person. I offered to help". It is definitely prevalent in society generally. Particularly on social media.

It is easy for the action to be lost in the message. It is easy to make a facebook post condemning something, it is harder to change your personal choices to stop using the product you condemned. How many posts have you seen condemning plastic waste? How many of those people have actually eliminated single use plastic from their life?

And I very much agree with the "Can I help by doing X?" approach. Specific and meaningful, while still giving the beneficiary control. Having people underfoot when you are stressed can make the situation worse rather than better. You worry about needing to supervise them to do it correctly.

A recent case in point.

We have had 5 huge trees down in recent storms. They look messy. It annoys my mother.

I explained I was too busy to deal with it until my Easter holiday, but had booked out multiple days to sort it then. Her response "Well I can help. Give me the chainsaw and I will do it."

She has never used a chainsaw before

She doesn't know how to fuel it, top up chain oil, sharpen the chain, or adjust tension.

She doesn't know anything about safely using it, positioning around the work, kick back etc...

She is left handed, the saw is right handed.

She is bullheaded and very very bad at listening to safety instructions

There is absolutely no way in HELL I would let her even attempt this work. If I did, I would have to hover like a hawk so may as well do the work myself much faster and safer.

So her offer of "help" was definitely not genuine. It was an expression of her frustration at the mess of fallen trees, and a passive aggressive way to put pressure on me to prioritise it.

I think there are absolutely times people say that and don't mean it... much the way people will ask how you are doing as a greeting and not really want to know how you are doing.

That said, I think it can be legitimate if the person is willing to help, but is unsure if the other person wants help, they might ask "Do you want some help with that?".

I've absolutely run into people that will be vague about what they're offering so they can feel good or smooth things over or get a bit of appreciation or they feel like they "should" offer. Somehow they always end up standing in the middle of the path deep in conversation or their phone and getting in the way! And I suspect everyone's met that surly jerk at a moving party who stands around slamming and dropping things, and tripping over the same box over and over so he can explosively cuss. They're here for the socializing or because they were pressured into showing up, not to help.

But if you've got a lot of them...

I've got people close to me who vent. Sometimes I'm not sure if they're asking me in a roundabout way for information or assistance, or if they just want me to uh-huh a couple times so they feel heard before they wrestle with whatever it is again. They respond better to "Do you want help?" than to "Are you venting?"

I know it adds to the load, but I'll ask the "what can I do" question when I'm not sure wtf they're doing or if experience has taught me that they're a "perfect or nothing" sort. Someone I know has these cryptic ways of organizing - I'll help move things, but I'm not going to put things on shelves or in drawers because they will be in the wrong place. Then she'll have a meltdown, and we'll all be behind schedule.

Is it just me, or do other people feel that asking, "Do you want some help?" is often a close relative to "the little white lie" - something people say to feel good about themselves

[reflects on it.]

Yes, it does feel like a close relative!  But it is a simple question, nevertheless, and can warrant a simple honest response on my behalf (Yes / No / Maybe / I don't know / I don't understand the question / [Silence])  ...followed by appropriate caveats.  For me as the recipient, the best reply then requires:

Courage. It takes courage to be intellectually honest with ourselves.  If someone asks us "Do you want some help?" and yes, we want help (from them or anyone), then we can just say "Yes." And if the questioner truly wants to help, they can then offer support with the higher commitment level question: "How can I help?" Alternatively, if the questioner didn't really want to personally help, they can renege based on their available time, energy, skills, or opportunity cost.  But even so, perhaps they will relay the need to someone else who can help.  We could be brutally honest: "I know I need help, but I really want to do this on my own." Or "I want help, but it's more important to me that you go spend some quality time with your family right now."  And that requires...

Clarity. The recipient has to process it all.  That requires a change in momentum, especially if what we're doing is dangerous, or requires hyper focus, or if we are under stress.  So we have to decide whether to stop what we're doing to invest in the other person's offer.  Is this person's offer of assistance worth it?  Maybe.  Not always.  (My mom once tried to spontaneously "help" me while I was cutting down a tree with a chain saw.  No thank you, GET BACK!)

Priorities - What is the most important task (or person!) at hand, or where do I feel I could use the most help?
Abilities - What is the questioner's skill level?  Can they help in some way?
Opportunity cost - Should they help?  What are the risks?  What is their time worth?  What is my time worth?   On one hand, I may want help with the task at hand, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a burden to others, or I am concerned about the quality of the project, or I know I need to build confident in my own skills and abilities.  

If we want help, but not their help for whatever reason, then we can add to our simple honest reply:
   "Yes, but I think you need to go" or
   "Yes, but this project requires some specific skills.  Are you capable of ___" or
   "Yes, but this will take ____ time. Are you able to help for ___ minutes?" or
   "Yes, can you find me someone who knows how to  ___?"
   
Social Capital.  Interestingly enough, sometimes an offer of help may not further the task at hand, but we still want the offer-er's help, because it is important for their own benefit, or for the relationship, or something else.  For example I had a recent art project, and while I knew neighborhood kids+paint+attention to detail wasn't a good mix for the task, I still wanted the kids to be a part of the project.  It was important for their own confidence and skill development.  And I wanted their parents to have that pride that the kids helped, while they themselves also offered support.  The project looked sloppy but it was worth it.

So all this is to say, rather than focusing on others' perceived thoughts or motives, it is becoming easier for me to simply take a pause, take the question at face value and reply accordingly.  I can be honest as to whether I want or need assistance and convey this to them, or I can be silent.  But it certainly takes courage accept help, and even more courage to ask for help.

K Kaba wrote:

I've got people close to me who vent. Sometimes I'm not sure if they're asking me in a roundabout way for information or assistance, or if they just want me to uh-huh a couple times so they feel heard before they wrestle with whatever it is again. They respond better to "Do you want help?" than to "Are you venting?"

Absolutely, K. I'm guilty of "problem solving" instead of just respectfully listening while they get the emotional side of things out of the way. I can certainly see in some of those situations that words like, "Do you want some ideas or help, or do you want to keep thinking about what's best for you for a while?"  That's a version of the, "what can I do to help?" that at least sounds genuinely like time and effort is being offered.

Michael Cox wrote:

So her offer of "help" was definitely not genuine. It was an expression of her frustration at the mess of fallen trees, and a passive aggressive way to put pressure on me to prioritise it.

I hear you! Being able to voice that frustration for her - something like - "I hear you frustration, Mother, but this is a big, dangerous job, and I have to feel like I've got the time to do it safely" might at least acknowledge her feelings. Personally, I'd be tempted to hand her my 3 sets of long handled pruners and my hand saw and suggest she, "get all the little bits out of the way and tied into bundles", but I haven't actually seen the problem! Good luck and work safe!

I would tend to say "do you need any help", as many people are proud/independent and would not want you to assume that they need help, even if they look like they're struggling.  That's all.

Michael Cox wrote:

There is absolutely no way in HELL I would let her even attempt this work. If I did, I would have to hover like a hawk so may as well do the work myself much faster and safer.

So her offer of "help" was definitely not genuine. It was an expression of her frustration at the mess of fallen trees, and a passive aggressive way to put pressure on me to prioritise it.

Classic mom move, lol. There are many variations of the same thing, either making you worry they'll get hurt or making you feel guilty for not doing exactly as they wish right when they wish it. I think this can be done by dads and spouses and even friends, but when mom does it, it's hard to push back with a 'no'.

Regarding the original post, I definitely think there are people who say this with either no intention of helping others, or worse, sometimes they are trying to ingratiate themselves to someone they actually want to use later on in some way. I hate that even more than indifference/apathy. I think it's fine for people to limit charitable acts to what they can fit into their schedule and handle doing, as nobody wants to be used for performing multitudes of free tasks. But at the same time, acts of help or kindness should be just that, no strings attached other than hoping the other party might return the favor should you need it. People used to understand this more than they do now, it seems, because people are more fragmented and don't think they'll necessarily need anyone. They also don't care about their reputation or character as much since we don't have the 'village' situation where that matters the way it used to.

But that village mentality hasn't altogether disappeared: if someone is fake friendly and a user of others, the message will come full circle at some point and there won't be anyone left to use. If someone is a genuine person you can trust and who will help if they can, they're going to be remembered and spoken about that way and will probably have help should they need it--often from someone they helped along the way. I don't know about karma and what-not but I have often believed that anything I did without expecting a reward or praise was somehow rewarded, because I've had situations that are uncanny where I was right where I needed to be or something happened just as it needed to happen in order to work out. That saying along the lines of 'a good man is never truly alone' seems kind of true, and I guess it applies to wimmunzes as well, lol.  

If I'm the one doing the offering of help, I'll usually ask if I 'can help' if I think they are too proud to admit they want the help, to make it clear I'd like to. Then they feel like they're 'letting me' help rather than feeling like they'd solicited a response.

To add to this thread, I especially like those who give minimal help and then drop hints about getting paid for getting in my way.  Unless I know the individual well,  I turn down all offers of help.   Those who really want to help will do so without much asking.  To tie into an earlier post, the comment will be, “ I’m going to run and grab my chainsaw, I will be right back.”

"Acts of service" are my primary love language, how I express genuine care and emotional connection to someone.  So when I offer to help I really do mean it,  and I'll keep asking,  rephrasing,  changing the offer so the person knows I'm genuine and I truly want to do something to lighten their load.  

By the same token, disingenuous offers to me that weren't really intended to be accepted, will likely emotionally distance me from that person.    I do understand that other people do NOT have that as a love language priority, and I don't expect it from people.   It's the offers that are just lip service that make me feel vulnerable and unimportant.

I try not ask unless I really intend to help and I usually try to offer specific actions.

I have a family whose love language is acts of service and it is often far more frustrating than helpful.  If I said no, I really don't want the helpful reorganization of my project to make it more efficient. If I haven't said anything at all I deserve what I get for not speaking up but once I have said no, I really want her to stop messing with my stuff.

The word help always reminds me of an employer I once had.

He was a salesman and taught me a lot about selling.

What always stands out is that he used the word help when asking someone a question. Especially when making phone calls.

I worked for this person a long time ago though I have never forgotten his message about using the word help.

Jay, you are so right on!  It took me a very long time to realize this, that a lot of people want you to say "no thanks," and are just clearing their consciences.  

It takes a nasty turn when they get angry when you tell them "no thanks," and then they act excluded and insulted.  So I've tried to pick easy, 20-minute things, and even that doesn't necessarily work.

I still don't know the best way to handle it, other than to say, "I haven't quite figured this project out, I'll let you know."

---

John, yeah, the ones hinting about getting paid....got a good laugh out of that one!!

Don't ask. Just do.

Obviously it's not good advice for all situations, but it is a very good point I heard from someone who had a job where he spent a lot of time with people who were grieving. Here in "The South" it is customary to take copious amounts of food to people who are grieving. He noticed how often people would drop off the obligatory food and "make sure they are doing ok"  and on their way out the door always say, "If you need any help, be sure and let me know," as they walked past a sink full of dishes, dirty floors from all the traffic, piles of clothing, etc. If you really care about someone, there's no need to ask. If you know they need help, just help. That made a lot of sense to me.

Asking puts them in an awkward spot. It opens a complicated web of pride and social graces and all kinds of other stuff. It may be awkward for them to turn you down if they feel the need, but they would have had to do that anyway whether you asked or not. Of course you need to know what you are doing to help with any task, but most daily tasks are relatively simple, and being able to read a situation is handy. Asking them to teach you how to do something you don't know can even turn helping them into them helping you, so they get to feel like they don't owe you anything.

i once asked a lady at a local farm store loading a 50 lb bag of dogfood into her truck,"do you need some help with that?" She said "sure!",i said "hold on, ill see if i can find somebody." She rolled her eyes and said "oh i guess your one of them."I assume she meant smart alec,but you could put any other word of your choosing in there.We both laughed and i helped her with her dogfood.I was really offering to help but in a manner that didnt make her fell like she couldnt do it on her own and if she said "no" i would have still said something in the manner as i didnt really want to anyway just wanted to know if you wanted help,just to lighten the mood,all of this of course while jokingly smiling.

I dont ask people if they want help,i usually ask if they need anything,sometimes going to get something is more helpful that lifting or holding or whatever the task may be,especially if its food or beers for when the job is done!

Is the food thing when someone passes just a southern thang or does other parts of the country do this too?

As far I can see all replies from people of the States and Europe, where the family and neighbor sense has died.
Not purposely killed by the individual itself, but controlled by the 9-5 rules these people are forced to live in.

The basic instinct is still there.
SIN or strong in Numbers is the only way to survive so the question gets asked:
"I have my day planned but if YOU really need my help, I give you off cause a hand."
(Thinking: Hopefully he will not say yes because I just stopped by, but I asked for my good feelings)

And we learned to answer:
"Thanks for your offer which is much appreciated but you are busy yourself I am ok."
(Thinking: Yes, would be nice he/she helps but I know he/she has not time and disappear before the task is completed)

There is no time left for family sense, everyone is forced to follow the stream of Gold and make a living to cover all these created expenses based on cold loveless money.

I was very shy at the beginning when I started my life as an Expat in Thailand.

I am proud to have a job that could feed many mouths as it is tradition when you have a family.
Who has gives, simple as that.
(of cause the honorable Family members and not the "Lazy Bums" who never give their share to the family.)

But when I start a task, there is always a younger or stronger family member or even neighbor, who just jumps selflessly in and takes the physical part of my task, mostly with the short words: "Let me do Uncle".
No question asked, job has to be done. Uncle likes it and I am proud to help uncle.

BUT, it is the day by day lifestyle these people are adapted to.
Tomorrow is another day, if my fridge is tomorrow empty, I help myself and find sure a mouthful in Uncle's fridge.

I adapted to this mentality as it was the same in my childhood.

Take that chicken leg and a glass of water or milk and don't put me and yourself in an awkward situation by asking.
I am happy to see the leftovers getting eaten or a bag of food gets prepared and taken home to the other family members.

I am 60 years old so let me jump in and bring some grub without asking,
let me give a hand if my body allows it
and off cause you can jump in before I asked you for help
(which would be a shame and awkward for both)

Hey we are Family (or neighbors), this is our duty and give me my darn shuffle back, take the pickaxe...