Humanure in cold climate, warm compost bin?

We recently moved to our new farm in Norway, and we have set up a compost toilet system (indoors), but yet no compost for the system...

Its really cold here and a lot of snow.

After having read the humanure handbook, my idea was actually to just toss it in the warm compost bin, but my partner doesn't think its a good idea, he wants to have separate systems for humanure and food scraps. How can we solve this, and make sure it gets warm enough?

One idea is to use the warm compost bin for just humanure plus bale, and maybe some food scraps, and then do another system, like bokashi or vermicompost for the food scraps. (Which isn't much, cause we have both pigs and chickens...

What would you do? Our buckets are full now, and we need to find a solution other than starting to poop on the flush toilets again!

The worst case, I think, is you start a new heap for your human waste and it freezes each time you dump more. In the spring it'll heat up and then maybe it'll stay warm through next winter.

Synne, welcome to the forum!  I've maintained and even started humanure compost piles during the winter where we've seen -17F (-27C) with high winds.  Aside from using spent hay/grass to line the compost bin my only added protection is a single layer of cardboard lining the wall to protect from wind.  All food waste that isn't moldy goes to our chickens.

As far as starting a bin, I've found that while it's nice to build a pile up sufficiently the first day to get it hot that may not be necessary.  I've layered frozen toilet material with frozen animal waste mixed with frozen animal bedding and added snow for hydration.  Once it got enough volume it heated on its own just fine, well before spring.

I started by adding just horse manure to the toilet material when it was cold and I was worried the pile would drop below 130F (54C) or so.  Now I take the spent grass our sheep and goats don't eat that covers the ground in their holding jug and move it into the chicken coop.  A week later I move it into the goose coup to get hydrated by their wet manure.  A week later I layer it with my toilet material in the compost bin.  Currently the bin is easily staying above 150F (66C).  You might try adding pig manure, or bale animal bedding taken through the chicken then pig pens.

Only if I wanted to use the compost sooner than 2yrs, or didn't want to have to deal with the potential for sawdust (cover material) remnants in the compost, or there were regulations limiting desired use of humanure compost would I'd keep them separate.  I've found that if the humanure pile is sized right and the time between additions to the pile allows the last material to be fully sanitized there is little risk of unsanitized material in the finished compost even without waiting 2 years.  Just pull the top layer of recently sanitized compost to the sides and fit the fresh material in the depression created, then insulate the fresh material with a cover of the recently sanitized compost.

Once the humanure pile has cooled to around 90F I'd try adding worms and keep it hydrated, sort of like a Johnson-Su Bioreactor without the aeration pipes or ground pallet.  How cold does it get where you're at in Norway?

Welcome Synne!

For what it's worth, I live in a cold climate and have been doing the humanure sawdust composting toilet for about a decade now.  During the winter my pile always builds up as each new addition freezes before really composting down.  Then come spring it does heat up and compost down.  For me spring is the time I also start a new pile.  So the winter build up will get to compost and sit at least another full year before I use it.  I also just toss my food scraps in with the humanure, but then I don't have pigs or chickens to feed them too either.

Do you just make a pile outdoors? Or do you have it in some sort of box?

And do you recommend sawdust instead of bale?

Synne, my piles are outdoors, using welded wire as the frame.  What kind of bale are you referring to?  Bale of straw, coir, peat moss?  I use store bought bales of small flake sawdust because it isn't dusty and is clean.  Chipper shredded material was too coarse to feel comfortable and wood chip compost screenings can be dusty.  I think the stuff I got from the sawmill was larger than the small flake sawdust I buy.  Still looking for other options.  It would be nice to find cover material that broke down quicker.

I made a fairly open set of enclosures outside for my system.  Inside with the composting toilet I use sawdust I get from a local sawmill.  Once the bucket it full I take it outside to dump, rinse out, and then cover it with "hay".  My hay is basically grass, weeds, and whatnot that I scythe down in the yard once or twice a year, let dry out, and then gather up for use with the composting system.  (I'm fortunate to be in a place where I am not required to mow a lawn!)

So interesting to read about problems with poop and freezing temperatures !
my suggestions : food scraps and kitchen waste to worm bins. They can be located indoors and shouldn't smell if managed properly, especially as you say you don't have much. My husband was a pro, and paid off his house with vermiculture. You can ask him anything (well almost) as he's German and has done this in Germany and in South Africa. His award winning website is called worm composting help dot com.  But enough self promotion.
I'm wondering, but I've never been in your shoes, ,though its very interesting to think about, that the hot composter for the poo could be kept warm with straw bales as you suggest (forgive me if others have said the same thing) as building a wall and floor of straw bales also isolates the pathogens. Even in our warm climate in South Africa, I find the outer 30cm of my humanure pile never actually composted properly. My solution was to switch from a cube made with pallets, to a pentagon made with pallets which hugely increased the hot inner core size relative to the whole heap. We've been going about five years now. Maybe a larger size hot composter will stay warmer at its core, and maybe in freezing temperatures you need to have an even larger composter with more wall than core, also a thick floor and roof of organic material ? Maybe you could continually stoke the inner heat by keeping urine aside, and adding it to the core through an inlet pipe ? Our humanure gets stored in buckets and we only build the heap about every second month, so I'm sure in this way, the heat comes in waves, after each addition.  The only way we can keep such long intervals is by having a urinal. This is enough that the buckets fill slowly. It takes me at least two weeks to fill my bucket because we humans output a lot more liquids than solids. My liquid output from the urinal gets mixed with grey water in a very simple closed piping system with some T's and goes into my grey water beds, in which I grow meter high chard, malabar (cimbing) spinach and Italian dandelion, sometimes taro. They all LOOOOVE the combination of liquids. I write for my own website, called greenidiom dot com, so I'm always pondering on my  systems and trying to articulate and theorize. Get them right and we may be better at surviving the coming climageddon. Natural gardeners, permaculturists and restorers will be the knowledge holders that help us, so keep on experimenting everyone, and keep on sharing and documenting what you've learned.

Caroline Kloppert wrote:My solution was to switch from a cube made with pallets, to a pentagon made with pallets which hugely increased the hot inner core size relative to the whole heap.

That's a fascinating idea.  I had never really thought about the shape of the compost enclosure, but as you mention this it certainly makes sense.  My guess is that ideal would likely be circular as that is the form that encloses the most space with the least amount of linear wall.  I guess that would mean a sphere actually would be the best, just not practical for most.

wow... now you have we pondering the great spherical compooster. A hemispherical pit in the ground lined with organic material, with a hemispherical pile on top, covered with straw bales so that it appears like a pale gold igloo ? Perhaps instead of building in horizontal layers one could build in dome like layers. I imagine the bottom part underground would be built from the outside in, and then the dome above ground from the inside out, pretty arty for a job like this. In the beginning the underground part would be well sheltered from the elements and by the time you get to the above ground part, the heap's microbiome would be hyperactive perhaps.  

Caroline Kloppert wrote:wow... now you have we pondering the great spherical compooster. A hemispherical pit in the ground lined with organic material, with a hemispherical pile on top, covered with straw bales so that it appears like a pale gold igloo ? Perhaps instead of building in horizontal layers one could build in dome like layers. I imagine the bottom part underground would be built from the outside in, and then the dome above ground from the inside out, pretty arty for a job like this. In the beginning the underground part would be well sheltered from the elements and by the time you get to the above ground part, the heap's microbiome would be hyperactive perhaps.  

Hmm... That actually does sound quite viable!

I wonder if the hemispherical top part could be made by essentially weaving a large basket that shape from sticks, vines, etc.  Perhaps a double wall basket with straw in between for more insulative effect but still allowing some air flow for the composting?  When adding to the pile you pull the top hemisphere basket off , add the new material and then replace it.

Caroline Kloppert wrote:I find the outer 30cm of my humanure pile never actually composted properly... It takes me at least two weeks to fill my bucket because... My liquid output from the urinal gets mixed with grey water

I suspect the core will be hotter if you include all urine with the humanure buckets.  Then you'd also be able to "stoke" it more frequently, keeping the heat up.   I mix humanure with animal bedding into my 5 1/2ft diameter circular bin and the core is currently sitting at 157F despite being about 25F outside.  The outer 5-6 inches is reading around 115F, which takes a week or two to completely kill pathogens.  Note that the straw/buffer material is entirely taking up that last 6inches on the wall.

To gain more margin on the sides take a closer look at the concept of the center feed method promoted by Joe Jenkins.  You take the top center of the compost and pull it to the sides.  In effect, you then have around 6inches of insulating "cover" material on the side, then fully pathogen killed compost taking up several more inches, then uncooked compost in the middle of all that.  In my climate I've found that I also need a single layer of cardboard outside all that for a windbreak, and when we hit -25F with wind chill down to around -47F last week I added a tarp on the windward side.  I fed it up the day the temperature started plummeting to ensure it had plenty of fuel.  That pile was around 145F when I checked a few days later when the arctic font had passed.

A cattle panel and a couple carabiners make a fast easy round compost bin. The goat panels are better because the holes are smaller, but any of them work if you are using straw as insulation around the edges.

Edit to add:

Make sure the carabiner or wire is installed so it can be removed easy when the bin is loaded and done.

Caroline, I should add that I use several inches of insulative cover material on the top.  When it gets really cold or wet I add a tarp to cover the top to keep the heat in and excess moisture out.