Greetings from spanish beginner... and questions about first RMH try

Hello again!

It's getting hard to find the right flues for the bench and chimnney here

Meanwhile, I'm making tests with a kind of spiral-flue (not corrugated, I'll make some photos later) and... it doesn't work too well.

I've built the "J" (dry-laid the tunnel bricks, clay-slipped on the riser, and then isolated with ceramic blanket), I've put the barrels and filled the gaps between barrel and chamber and floor. When firing without barrel it goes right, but as soon as I put the barrel on, it slows air flow very much (I've tried putting the top of the barrel up and down the 5" spot). It goes better when connecting some 5' of vertical flue after the barrel, but... it's supposed to work as good just with the barrel and no flues added, isn't it?

Maybe I've missunderstood it, but I gess the "air pump" of the burn chamber + riser should push the air out from the opened manifold strong enough without any other support.

After reading another recent post about that, I'll try to smooth someway the riser and manifold (maybe it's because of the blanket roughness? I could wrap it with aluminiumm foil just to test that point)

In a few minutes I'll go back home, cut the flues at lenght, seal them and wrap the blanket. I'll test it again and I'll let you know.

Have a nice day!

Do you have any vertical stove pipe at the end of the run? Bells are easier to get a good draft than a flue, but you still need some chimney.

Jose Mnuel Bonilla : Most of the time when I work hardest to be clear, I am most un-clear ! Now I am a little un-sure myself!

Cindy raises a good point. Also Peter Berg uses a vertical chimney right after the transition area for diagnosing RMH problems, if you are having problems you can
add the vertical chimney there. If all your problems disappear,your problems are Not in your Rockets burner base or manifold, this seems to work every time and
helps you feel you are in charge and not fumbling in the dark ! So yes, a vertical chimney is important- if you had an extra long or complicated system, 15 ' of
vertical rise will add 10' of horizontal flow to that marginal system ! Big AL

Do you have any vertical stove pipe at the end of the run? Bells are easier to get a good draft than a flue, but you still need some chimney.

Well, I'll do have the bottom 2m of flue (just before chimney) mass-covered someway as a "vertical bench".

Here you have some pictures of the manifold as it is today. I've tried the aluminiumm foil for covering the blanket, but It seems not enough.
When I do plug a vertical flue up above the barrel it seems ok, but as soon as I unplug it and let the manifold open it slows too much. Same as when plugging al the bench flues (both horizontal and vertical).





Here you have it with all the flues (top exit will just join chimnney inside house)



More images (and the rest of the previous process) on my RMH Picasa Gallery here

And the last vídeo showing the combustion unit working with the vertical chimney

A bit frustated now, but I hope I'll be able to help her work fine...

Any suggestions? How could I cover the ceramic blanket to make it smooth for the manifold?

J.M.B. That sounds beautiful, I Think that the only problem is that you have over-thought this, being able to flow through multiple feet of pipe and elbows is not the same
thing as having a good draft, if your system works at all without any ? Vertical Chimney, you are doing well indeed!

I am waiting to see what becomes of your experiment with Aluminium foil, As I am expecting the aluminum foil to shred or burn up please make sure no Pieces travel
downstream to cause a problem later. The type of ductwork / stovepipe was very popular in commercial buildings usually hidden above dropped ceilings, and may still be !
Big Al !

Do you have any vertical stove pipe at the end of the run? Bells are easier to get a good draft than a flue, but you still need some chimney.

- so would it be better to substitute the vertical flue/column for a bell?
- should the bell have the same system CSA or could it be bigger?

I hope I'll be able to put the chimney just on top of that vertical flue (or bell) so it wouldn't need another T. So the system would have just 3 Ts before the somewhat around 16' of vertical bell/flue plus chimney exit (about 8' each).

I am waiting to see what becomes of your experiment with Aluminium foil, As I am expecting the aluminum foil to shred or burn up please make sure no Pieces travel downstream to cause a problem later.

I didn't like it. Maybe I could try some metal sheet to cover around the manifold path.

Today I'll make some tests:

- To try the burner with top barrel on, but bottom one out (opened and no manifold-barrel at all) and see how it goes.
- Maybe to make a brick manifold (substituting bottom barrel) so I'll have more space here before the flue.

Reading some other posts about slow burning when barrel on, I've just read Ernie's words about our look for "rockety sound" and that not being so important for the right performance of the RMH. What I'm looking now is not (now that I know it) the sound, but the right flow in order to avoid smoke-back.

Another issue I'm thinking about my tests is location of my RMH on the courtyard (against a wall and a shor roof as you can see on the previous photos) and the bit windy weather we have these days. Hope It would perform better when inside house.

The type of ductwork / stovepipe was very popular in commercial buildings usually hidden above dropped ceilings, and may still be !

These are for air ducting, not sove. But I gess the spyro would add draft to the system and maybe it would not seal enoug. I do not like them. I'm waiting for the galvanized stove pipe to come to the store for my RMH and will discard those ones for some other further experimentation.

This is not as easy as I could imagine when reading the books and watching vídeos

Have a nice day!

Manuel

J.M.B. : The Fantastic trick that the Rocket does- is not that it can use a long Horizontal chimney without any Vertical chimney !! ! IT MUST work with a Vertical Chimney !

Ianto Evans, the original RMH creator was looking for a place to settle down and He picked a place in a small hanging valley with a very stable micro climate and steady winds
that blow from one direction during most of a short heating season ! Then he sculpted his houses around his Rocket Stove and the location, building single story houses none
taller than 4-5 meters! And curved, and mostly rounded to not create extra wind currents and eddies! His whole structures at his home base look rather like 'fat mushrooms'

Now we are trying to retrofit RMHs into existing homes, and we must use vertical chimneys with our rocket stoves to make them work, I do sometimes tell some people who
seem to want a cheap Rocket, first, and a good rocket second, to plan on the cost of making a vertical chimney to 5' above the peak of their roof. It is your build, but I would
never suggest substituting cheap for good ! Keep a nice tall vertical chimney ! For the Craft ! Big AL !

and we must use vertical chimneys with our rocket stoves to make them work, I do sometimes tell some people who
seem to want a cheap Rocket, first, and a good rocket second, to plan on the cost of making a vertical chimney to 5' above the peak of their roof. It is your build, but I would
never suggest substituting cheap for good ! Keep a nice tall vertical chimney ! For the Craft ! Big AL !

I see. Let's try this:



Actual chimney would be taller. Yesterday I've bought 1m isolated-steel flue for that. Under the roof and above the ceiling It will be galvanized flue isolated with rockwool.

And let's see how it works with that extra lenght added:



Ohhhhhh, IT WORKS!!!

I've been thinking about air pressures on the courtyard corner where I'm working now and maybe the roof and walls are acting somehow as a ventury. Just having this 5' flue added really changed the draft!

I'll keep feeding it for a while this afternoon. If possible I'll borrow a infra-red thermometer to know better.
Soon I'll be making holes on my walls in order to the flues to pass by and, as soon as some one could help me to install the steel chimney on the tiles roof I'll begin to dismantle the stove and re-make (hopefully better) it again inside.

Anyway, I know it isn't done yet and complications are hidden, waiting to jump my back but I'm one step closer to get it!
So far, I'm happy I've got to this point, and hope it everything will work at least as good as it's going outside now.

Thaaaaaaaaaaankssssssssss one more time

J.M.B. ; We have a saying that I think will translate well, Don't count your chickens before they are hatched! how every You are moving from the ranks of those that are trying
to the ranks of them that HAVE Done it ! I have been reminded of just how much wood you are going to go through to get things to dry out before you throw your first party,
you have the wet Cob, all of the water in the wood by weight 20% and all of the water that has yet to be formed from the Hydrocarbons that you will burn, do not be alarmed
the amount of wood that you will burn after you finally get you cob Dry, will be a lot less ! Congratulations ! Big AL

We have a saying that I think will translate well, Don't count your chickens before they are hatched!

Here we say "Don't sell the bear's fur before you hunt him" ("no vendas la piel del oso antes de cazarlo" in spanish)

So far so good... Yes I know it's not finished yet, but yesterday I could finally try the heater with the flues unconvered inside the house... and it works!!!
Leveling the bricks was the most difficult task for me and it took me plenty of time to make them look nice. Used some mortar between some layers and the riser was clay-slip stacked. After that I've used clay slip and mortar to seal the leaks between bricks (I've used a light bulb inside the riser to see those) and then burnt some wood. It fired with no problem at all, better than it worked outside (suppose the taller chimney along with the better flue tubes and sealing make the difference). I guess it will work even better as soon as the burner's bricks and cob get dry.

Today I'll make some minor changes (top barrel - riser gap and leveling) and will isolate (perlite-c.s.) and cover with cob the burn and feed chamber out of the barrel, and soon I'll look for clay, sand and stones for the benches. I'll post some photos soon.

Thank you again for your support.

Have a nice day (it's -3ºC 26,6ºF these mornings here, but I've got a pretty dragon going on )

Heater isolated, cob-covered and running! After some hours of burning it's really amazing! WOW! Serious thing!




Now I'll keep firing it to dry the cob around the burner while looking for some more dirt for the benches.


Some images of the building inside steps:


my RMH Picasa Gallery

Have a nice day!

Both benches are made, kitchen one waiting to dry in order to put the finish on,



and workshop one just need some touch ups and finish.



Now just putting the thermal mass on the vertical column



There are only 2/3 of the thermal mass still, and not completely dried, but when we wake up in the morning temperatures only have fallen down 2 to 4ºC!!! (20ºC at night, 16-18 in the morning, great!!!)

It's a slow work in progress, but this winter we'll be much better at home and will have to burn far less wood, and of course, lot less somke!

You can have a look at some more photos in the Picasa Gallery

Thank you again, folks!

Great thread thanks for sharing!

Hello all!

Kitchen bench (almost) finished yet




The "pillar" is a slowly work in progress:



We do cover the thermal cob with cotton bandage in order to prevent it from collapsing or separating from flue. A foot at a time (aprox) to let it dry before adding more wet weight.




Galvanized iron preventing heat to go to the wall and the "pillar", as Allen suggested me. Thanks again folks!

Now it's cold here and we'll have to wait some days to footle more cob for the pillar, I'll keep posting as we go.

Have a nice day

Jose Manuel, my Spanish friend :As usual a well laid out and planed job with much beauty and the bones for even more ! I just wanted to share with a few of your
Fans that the floor patterns seen are Real Tile and not just a piece of linoleum ! Please keep sharing with us ! Big AL !

Late Note : I have never seen a wooden rack under a doggy bed before, and am convinced that there is a story there if you want to share ! Big AL !

Late, late, note great use of old carpeting to make a great kneeler A. L.

Jose Manuel, my Spanish friend :As usual a well laid out and planed job with much beauty and the bones for even more ! I just wanted to share with a few of your
Fans that the floor patterns seen are Real Tile and not just a piece of linoleum ! Please keep sharing with us ! Big AL !

Late Note : I have never seen a wooden rack under a doggy bed before, and am convinced that there is a story there if you want to share ! Big AL !

Oh, yes, the patterns are tiles, and In fact I had to take some of them appart, clean the bottom and re-glue them again in place, since the house's floor is not well done (no good foundations, and hummidity coming from the earth...) and they have moved and unleveled a lot since they were laid time ago... I should have token all the tiles under the stove away because maybe some of them are not well "glued" to the floor, and I'm afraid the stove could move a bit over time, but now it's too late I hope they won't

And this is somehow related to the problem we do have with "Cuca" (the little female dog you see in the pictures). She's got some kind of "mouldy" or "fongus" allergical skin affection, and it itches her a lot. She's very old and spends lots of hours in her bed, so she sweats, and hummidity being not good for her skin, I've made such a wooden rack so the bed has good air circulation from beneath. It works well, and now the cotton of her bed uses to be dry. It isolates her a bit from the floor's cold, too.

We want to make a nice litle "cave" just in the same spot you see her in the last photo (over the left side of the pillar) so she would enjoy some warmth. Just above her bed we'll have another rack for the firewood basket.
We do have a cat, too, but she's young and able to jump any place over the benches as she wants to

Late, late, note great use of old carpeting to make a great kneeler A. L.

It's an old insulative camping rug, a truly multi-purpose thing Good enough to work bent on our knees

Jose, may I say what a pleasure it was to follow your journey! We have just purchased land in Tarragona in the Ebro River area and I plan to build a RMH so it was good to see a Spanish build, using clay from your area and what materials you found to use.
Your drawings and photos made the project come alive and I love the curves on your kitchen bench.
I was very nervous about doing it right and in a small space - your idea for splitting the bench between 2 rooms solves my problem of how to heat 2 back to back rooms.
Thank you,you have inspired me to try!