paul needs to change

Two beauties from this page

So who has the biggest permie website on the internet?

Jeanine Gurley wrote:So who has the biggest permie website on the internet?

we do.

I came to permies via the podcast, only a few months ago. When I first heard you use f**k, I thought, "Good, he knows he's speaking to adults."

The stuff about the drama on reddit, self-identifying information that you share about neighbors (as in they can recognize themselves), and your opinion of them, etc, made my eyes bulge at first, but I rolled with it, especially since none of it was terribly venomous or spiteful, sometimes honesty stings. Now, as I've listened to all of the podcasts available on iTunes, and a few from the website, I'm glad to know the history of what you've experienced and that you don't pull punches.

I like this kinda thing.

I would like to post a reply to this thread as well. I have not read ALL of the responses (yet) but from the amount that I have read it looks like the only people to respond here are Paul's PIE's. So I just want to take a moment to reply as a bit of (Sour PIE).

Do I think Paul is arrogant? Yes, actually I do.

Do I think that Paul is rude? Yes, sometimes I do.

Do I agree with everything he says or does? No, no I don't.

Do I want him to change in order to be more in line with my way of thinking? OH HELL NO!

You see, even though I think that Paul is a rude, arrogant, obnoxious jackass; (sometimes anyway) so am I. All people are egocentric, all people tend to think of things in relation to themselves. Does this idea match how I feel, etc... so when someone comes along and says that anyone else should change in order to "Make things better" what they actually mean is "You should change to match MY world view because the world revolves around me". Yes, your world does revolve around you, and my world revolves around me, and Paul's world revolves around him. Paul shares the information he does because he is trying to change the world to match his views and make it more like what he wants. The people who find value in Paul's wisdom, (myself included) share some of Paul's world view and are trying to change the world to match our image of what we think the world should be. Paul just happens to be more determined than most to change his world, and personally I applaud him for that.

You see you really do NEED a huge ego in order to enact REAL change. You need to believe that YOU are strong enough and IMPORTANT enough to get things going and to get people to listen to you and follow what you say. Otherwise you are just some meek voice whispering in the dark. So yes, if you don't like the way Paul does something, or says something, don't expect him to change to suit your world views, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO, he's changing the world enough doing things his own way to support his world view, and reinforce his ego. If you don't like it, then build your own ego up enough to BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE. Lead by example, share YOUR knowledge, post YOUR videos, if your ego is strong enough you will attract followers too who will fight for you just as staunchly as Paul's PIE's fight for him.

I follow Paul, (as far as it suits MY worldview) because he has figured out that he doesn't need to try and change people in order to get what he wants. He just has to be himself, and that supports MY WORLDVIEW. So by doing things his own way he is, (at least in my mind) proving that MY worldview is the correct one.

I. AM. A. PIE (Paul is Excellent!) Supporter.

PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!
PIE!

Paul: You're doin' great, man, just Great! I'll keep looking for opportunities when I can help. In the meantime, I thought you could use some PIE!
Mariamne

Jocelyn sent me a link to an article a few days ago and i am finally getting around to read it. The two quotes she sent me:

do you have any idea what it’s like to get 500-plus negative attacks, on my character, from truly bizarre strangers.

if people wanted me to write more warmly about them, they should have behaved better.

Source.



And I just realized that this thread does not have the rather excellent cleverpie video:




And here is something from a while back that i just dug up that should be here:

Paul,

Your Keynote and one of Jack Spirko's recent podcasts really complimented each other and I just so happened to listen to them both on the same day. You guys truly inspire me to do good things. You're absolutely right, as so many people get burnt out fighting bad guys, we need to shift to doing more good things. The more you do things and talk about doing good things, I am truly inspired to take that leap. Thank you for all the good work you do.

I agree with everything on this thread but I think you shouldn't use so many f---ing swear words.

Fuck that!

Paul,
I appreciate that you let us know how many annoying little ants out there who try really hard to stop the dream that you are creating through 1 million people a month. It helps us appreciate even more what you put up with. I don't agree with every single thing you say, but I think overall, you are doing amazing things to help our planet. I trust people who let their personality show through, like you, much more than people who are hiding lots of things and always trying to guess what everyone else wants them to say.
PIE
John S
PDX OR

Fred Morgan wrote:As I have accomplished more in my life, I have become less and less willing to comment about what others are doing. I have some very accomplished friends, I haven't done so badly myself. We almost never will offer criticism of each other - but we tend to ask each other for opinion when in doubt, and we are often in doubt.

There is a person who is afraid of being the doer, but still wants to share credit - they will shoot out "help" like a shotgun, perhaps hoping someone will use something they suggest, and then they can share credit.

Ideas are a dime a dozen, and so is advice. Building a plan, following through no matter what - these are the things that separate those who are successful and those who aren't.

I know this is an old post and I am a bit off topic but I just wanted to say this is the most amazing thing Ive read in a long time, I keep going back to read it over.
Thanks Fred

Just to keep it on topic dont change Paul, I look forward to my daily commute to work which we share via podcast, makes an hour feel like 10 minutes.
Thanks Paul

old awesome thread, i've just read through it!! great that people think they can use Jocelyn to change you, wow she's got the power Hey Paul I've just been around permies for a few months and have been seeing your videos and listening to your podcasts for a bit more, i really would not know what to do with you, if you spoke and moved like David Attenborough. i don't know what permaculture would do with you if you spoke like him.
i guess they are just angry because you don't have the mask on.
but really it would so nice to have you one day in a suit speaking in oxford english and then just ripping everything off and having your overalls under, shouting nature swears, nature is dirty, and we mimic nature!!!
sorry got carried away at least under the suit you had your overalls

I also want to thank you for starting this site for us and all the things you contribute to the movement personally.

some people don't have anything better to do than complain, your cartoon was perfect.

Mr. Rogers likes me just the way I am

this popped up recently.  I think it belongs with this collection.

It's great to read the processes I've either been through or been thinking about It's kinda relaxing... It was a good idea to put this through the email digest.

I think there is more than just the growing of plants going on here... hang-on, unless we (or I) are some kind of plant that needs feeding until one works it out them self? (is that grammatically right?)

If you're a plant you or think you are, you can always let me know. Postcards not to me, Paul might appreciate it.

P.S seems a few posts had same pictures (the car and the "Just because you are offended doesn't mean you are right" which I liked the best)

For Paul, I can think of the song "Oh Lord it's hard to be hunble..." but by the same bit, Paul is who he is. No add ons, no fakery, no guesswork. What you see is what you get. I like that. Plus I think he's great at making videos.

It is said we should not expect the world to change to accommodate us, we have to accommodate the world. Well, Paul is working on changing the world as well to accommodate a better way. in which case, give'm hell Paul!

(edit, hadda fix something minor. I am not awake yet though the tomato patch has seen me twice already)

from my email ...

Not sure if you ever check these or not, but just wanted to reach out and say thank you for the way you keep a tight rein on things and make sure the forum stays in line with your vision.

I’ve frequented both this place and the r/permaculture subreddit (which apparently you used to run?) for a few years now, and the drastic decline in quality of the latter is extremely obvious while yours has stayed at a very consistent and high level that I constantly refer to, check, and learn from.

On the subreddit the mods would talk badly about how you used to run it, and the members would call any attempts at enforcing some kind of standard or metric ‘gatekeeping’. Now the sub is literally overrun with basic organic gardening content and links to blogs / YouTube channels.

So yeah, random as this is I figured I’d reach out and thank you personally for keeping the quality of this place high by setting and enforcing a standard for content. As someone who has seen more than one good subreddit devolve at the hands of mob democracy, I for one appreciate your style of doing things.  

Thanks for the kind words!

A long time ago I was a lowly mod at r/permaculture.  And I banned trolls.  So if somebody was freakishly hostile to somebody else, I would ban them.  That is exactly how I was naughty - according to the standards of a mod further up on the food chain.  

But the real reason my mod-ship there was taken.  Somebody came to permies.com and created an account with a name like "Fuckface McFuckerson" and when the staff asked them to follow the real sounding name policy, this person went to reddit and started a thread called something like "I was banned from permies.com for no reason!"  The truth was that this person was not banned - but simply asked to follow the real sounding name policy.   Then that person started a day-long tirade against permies and me.  And THAT inspired the mod above me to remove me as mod.  

I think it was all a bit compounded by people that would get the boot at permies tended to end up at r/permaculture.

So, yeah, clearly a difference in moderation style.  

Around that time, I started r/homestead and it is now ten times bigger than r/permaculture.   Plus, permies has more activity than both of those combined.  So I'm not feeling really sad over the de-mod thing.  I feel like my style is being proven by overall traffic at both permies and r/homestead.

Now the sub is literally overrun with basic organic gardening content and links to blogs / YouTube channels.  

Isn't that what reddit is?  A place to make links to content all over the internet?

Granted, I prefer the perennial discussion here on permies.  And we encourage youtubers and bloggers to post their stuff here.  And we encourage organic gardening stuff too.  

Maybe there is something about the type of person and the type of conversation we encourage that makes those same posts a bit more digestable here?

Thanks again for the words of support!

Hey Paul, excited and surprised to get a response.

Thanks for clarifying how that all ended up going down. If you take the word of some of the people over there, you were some kind of tyrant dictator ‘gatekeeping’ everyone and banning people left and right, and we’re supposed to be lucky that the mods don’t bother to actually moderate anything. I’m glad to see your supposed iron fist has uncurled itself for us here lol.

Yes, Reddit as a whole is primarily a link aggregate I suppose. But certain subs have different purposes, and in-depth discussion/info sharing places like here or like r/permaculture used to be are still common. YouTube and blogs have their places anywhere, but being overrun by spam like what is happening on the sub now is certainly not in keeping with an educational or discussion based learning environment. It’s just flagrant self-promotion.

Likewise, organic gardening is awesome and I’m not trying to trash it, so thanks for only lightly checking my zealotry there haha. They’re both great things when used properly.

That being said, as you obviously know permaculture is a much larger body of knowledge and work than that. To see a place that used to be about in-depth discussions and sharing knowledge on this very broad systematic approach to agriculture and other life systems that is permaculture… get reduced to being a carbon copy of every other organic gardening ‘how to make homemade apple cider pesticide to spray on your tomatoes’ sub… it can be a little frustrating. The wiki over there is still great though, so there’s that.

But again, thanks for sharing your insight on this and at this point, listening to me rant. Thanks again for what you do and know that it’s appreciated.

It’s just flagrant self-promotion.

I think permaculture is about working with nature instead of against it.  I also think that somebody doing self-promotion is part of human nature.  So I like to think "how do we channel that energy to be of benefit to the greater permaculture community?"

Plus, I love the idea that people will try to ditch their city wage slave stuff, and make a go of it in the country - with huge gardens!  And I love that permaculture people share their permaculture experiments with a bigger audience.  And sometimes those people can get some small income stream from all that stuff - good for them!  

It used to be that people did not share their amazing permaculture stuff.  So I'm glad that we are basking in the glow of so many permaculture artisans these days.  I choose to encourage them.  I hope they choose to self-promote here.

The wiki over there is still great though, so there’s that.

Good to know!

Thanks again for what you do and know that it’s appreciated.

Thanks for saying something!  It's good fuel to keep everything going!

Man, your relentless decision to choose to view things in a positive light is infectious. You’re right, and I can’t help but laugh at myself now. Im going to try to reframe this in my head and see these things in your more positive context.