Bio Charlie in a batch box RMH?

So a Biocharlie seems to be stovepipe, caps , and handles fashioned into a charcoal retort.



You could probably make your own, or you could certainly use steam table pans to ,achieve similar results.
Members have posted about making charcoal in their woodstoves with such vessels, but I want to know how this kind of device interacts with a batch box RMH.

Hey William;
I would say that it would work BUT...
I think only in a batch that is outdoors and exclusively for making char.

If you toss it in the 8" batch your planning here is my "guess"  what will happen.
You will be soaking up heat that was meant for your bell.
You would be taking up room from firewood that could be inside your batch.

And most of all, after having recently built a 6" and a 7" batch...
I can tell you, that it is one hot MF inside that box.  
That pretty black tube will quickly look like a relic found inside the Titanic!
I had 1750 F insulated firebricks blacken and crumble in just a few days... must be 1800+ inside a 7" batch...
How hot is an 8" batch?

If that's mild steel, it won't last in a batch box. Depending on the gauge, it will be consumed in time, and that might be as rapidly as ten or twenty burns.

Now, this, on the other hand:

https://craftygatherer.co.nz/shop/home-gardener-biochar-burner

Not as big, and made of heavy stainless steel. You could put it in when you load the batch, or wait until partway through a burn.

thomas rubino wrote:How hot is an 8" batch?

Just checked: measured 1173 ºC equals 2140 ºF in a 6" version. A larger one like 8" would top that up a bit, might be 2300 ºF tops inside, especially against the rear wall. No experience with even larger systems, sorry.

Hmm,  didn't realize the firebox was that hot, I'd thought those tempatures started in the port.
That stainless gadget might works,  but a steam table pan is a hell of a lot cheaper.
A full sized pan is too wide for the firebox of an 8" batch, though you could shave the sides down.
A 1/2 long pan would fit fine.

A retort cast from refractory might work,  but also might not be worth the trouble.
I am already planning to create the slopes on either side of the burn chamber  separately from the rest of the box. Making them as retorts could be an option.

If I understand correctly, the batch box works even if it isn't insulated.
This makes me wonder if you could flank or surround the burn chamber with retorts that vent into the chamber itself,  in a manner similar to the Hookway biochar retort.
The Hookway uses a J rocket running through an insulated cylinder packed with charcoal feedstock.
Perforations in the J allow   the products of pyrolysis to mingle with the fuel in the riser.
To me, loading and unloading the Hookway seems like a big hassle.
If our retorts were essentially  white ovens, we could easily  load and unload them .
In particular,  an single oven right above the burn chamber could might significantly lengthen  the effective burn time of a load , and make biochar at the same time

I think I'll start with the 1/2 long steam table pan.
Actually,  I'll start by finishing my RMH!
It's coming along, slowly, but I can't help noodling about with ideas like this one.  

William, I can attest that the steam table pans work. I've been using them in the wood fire for a few years now. I get two seasons out of a pan, and so far haven't had to replace a lid. I'm using 1/4 size 65mm depth and can fit up to three of these in the wood fire. Smaller vessels have the advantage of higher surface area to volume ratio, which could play a part in how well the interior heats up...but in the inferno of a fully fueled batch box this may never be an issue. I have had pans that didn't char in the middle because I put them in when the fire had died down a little too far.

Hi William;
A batchbox will burn uninsulated . Yes
My shop stove build started that way.
It burned hot , well so hot it fried the insulated bricks.
However here's the deal.  It takes energy (time) to heat those bricks.
When they are not insulated they share that heat with the room, not the rest of the batchbox.
It continues to do so the whole time it is burning. Constantly shedding heat that could be heating your bell or cooking your char...
I ran mine that way for a month or two... then I took it all apart and insulated the firebox...

I call it a high performance upgrade!  Oh it burns hot now!  At times it seems the bricks are glowing (maybe they are)!
Bell gets hotter, less ash is left when done.
12 hours later it is still warm or even hot inside the firebox.
Hands down it went from a grocery getter...  to a full blown race dragon.

Thomas, I envisioned the burn chamber inside the bell,  the charcoal retort as well.
The fuel stock in the retort(s?) would be a poor insulation or mass , but the heat is just passing through on its way to the inside of the bell.
So we're should the gasses be vented in order to have the best effect?
Early on in the process they will not be flammable, so we're would that to the least harm?

I thought the same thing.  
Apparently even entirely inside the bell you want the combustion to be going up the riser not heating the other stuff.
I know nothing about char and retort so I may be wrong.
Batchboxs  are new to me as well.
If I say something too far off base Peter will step in to make things clear.

Hmm.
If the  combustion doesn't heat the bell,  where is the heat being stored?
If heating a retort would mess with the functionality,  what about ovens that are  built into bells?
No matter,  I'm a far way from making any of this happen.

I initially looked at retorts, but I had two main problems. I couldn't make enough biochar, and the internal container was either hard to find or would itself be burned up too quickly.  I went TLUD, but everyone has a different process that is going to fit their situation. TLUD works really well for me.
John S
PDX OR

TLUD's are awesome, but their use in space heating is in its infancy.
I've also struggled with getting good results from anything other than regular sized particles of very dry material.
I just did a burn in an open trough that devoured a large heap of damp brush.
A retort can also use irregular/poorly seasoned feedstock.

There is a possible benefit to adding a retort to a batch box, beyond the char.
If the retort is located outside of the batch box,  it could effectively increase the amount of BTUs  delivered with each burn.

Good point, William.
I don't use mine as a space heater.  I have a covered area where I can dry my wood before burning it.  It's worth it to me to try to make the wood roughly similar in size.  These are great questions people can ask themselves before deciding on an option that suits their situation best.  This is how we are going to encourage a lot more people to participate in making biochar.

John S
PDX OR

William Bronson wrote:TLUD's are awesome, but their use in space heating is in its infancy.

I've been heating my tiny jouse with indoor TLUD's for multiple years now and I'm loving it. The only drawback is taking the fuel cylinder outside for quenching. Especially from the syove that I finished lastvyear which has a 20liter fuel cylinder.

This year I build a much smaller stove that uses a 1.3 liter cylinder which is much more convenient and it's an amazing little cookstove but in terms of adding much heat intk the space it's lacking a bit bevause it only burns 850 grams of stove pellets per 50 or so minutes.